Verifying Texts

[FB_]

I am planning to use the request to admit. Other party is a HCP, constantly denying things when "caught".

I am expecting the same denials with the texts, because some are very contrary to affidavits and other statements.

But you're right - a request to admit is the place I will be starting.

So stop communicating with then.

Let them make a mess of themselves on OFW...

[ByMyself]

I am planning to use the request to admit. Other party is a HCP, constantly denying things when "caught".

I am expecting the same denials with the texts, because some are very contrary to affidavits and other statements.

But you're right - a request to admit is the place I will be starting.

[Serene]

Why not put them in a request to admit? The forms allow for not just faxes and letters, it states "other" as well. You can take a screen shot of the texts or make a thread that is typed out of the conversation if you can't email the text thread to yourself.

[FB_]

Love the idea of blocking the texts. Some service providers and phones even have that available. But the problem is, the ex feels perfectly justified in not communicating at all if I won't do it their way. So cutting off text means I get nothing. Which, I guess, is only slightly less than what I get now.

I am hoping that, as part of my change of custody motion, we can tighten up the order to be absolutely clear that "unless in the case of emergency, all communication to be done through Our Family Wizard." (Suggestions for exact wording gladly accepted)

So that's why I am trying to get everything as solid as possible for our next round of court. I want to try to tighten up our divorce order as much as possible, to eliminate the small loopholes that were left, and make things as precise and enforceable as possible - cut and dry.

As cut and dry as possible, for family court at least.

Believe me if you stop responding they will change....If you don't they won't

It took about a week of not communicating via text then she finally started responding via email.

This is the standard message I send every time she texts me.

Undeliverable: Phone number 416-xxx-xxxx has blocked sms messages from 416-xxx-xxxx

If she sends three texts I send 3 of those messages.

Even if I don't see it for 2 hours I still send them 2 hours later.

They will get the hint pretty quick.

You could send whatever you want.

Autoreply: This user has blocked text messages from you. If you wish to contact him please use Our Family Wizard"

There are also apps that you can get to actually do this.

[arabian]

I don't have it handy, but I have come across a case on CanLii where the judge looked at the filing of a bona fide contempt motion as a substantial change in circumstance, justifying revisiting a final divorce order.

The problem with contempt in family law, as I see it, is that the person in contempt only has to right the wrong - to purge themselves of the contempt - and your case against them is done. They can be caught "red handed" - doesn't matter. Too often, as soon as the contempt in purged (even in the 11th hour), the court case effectively loses its steam. Some time passes, and the party can again begin ignoring the order, because the case never really sees the courtroom.

You are correct about purging contempt. I have been through this for the past 3 yrs - ex refusing to comply with court order. I believe one good thing to try to get accepted by a judge is to have a statement in there that specifies a $$$ amount for each day the person remains in contempt. This can often work as an incentive for person to purge their contempt. Something to consider anyhow.

[afraid]

in my case the judge accepted the texts and they were not notarized as long as the had the time,date and her number on each text it helped my case as the judge referred to them in his decision.

[ByMyself]

I don't have it handy, but I have come across a case on CanLii where the judge looked at the filing of a bona fide contempt motion as a substantial change in circumstance, justifying revisiting a final divorce order.

The problem with contempt in family law, as I see it, is that the person in contempt only has to right the wrong - to purge themselves of the contempt - and your case against them is done. They can be caught "red handed" - doesn't matter. Too often, as soon as the contempt in purged (even in the 11th hour), the court case effectively loses its steam. Some time passes, and the party can again begin ignoring the order, because the case never really sees the courtroom.

I know it may not be in the best interests of children to have their parents punished - but how are families to take their divorce orders seriously without serious consequences?

To get the courts to really recognize the contempt, you have a very tall order. Not only are you trying to prove contempt according to the tests, but you also need to reflect upon how the contempt is affecting the children in some negative way.

Thank goodness for the work of some judges over the last few years - starting to send stronger messages to parents who hold little regard for the court orders, and how their actions are not in the best interests of children.

Hopefully their precedences will pave the way for more judges to examine closely what is really going on in their courtrooms, and seek better solutions for families that cannot bring an end to their fighting on their own.

[arabian]

so happy to see you back posting ddo!

Yes the contempt thing is so lame in family court isn't it? I know some people have posted some cases from CanLII where contempt was actually found and people punished. However, it is another court case you have to pursue and many have said it's just the same as going through a divorce with the trial and everything.

Thing that bothers me about the whole thing is that those judges know it's a rare thing for contempt in family court - probably simply due to the cost. Once someone has gone through a divorce they are pretty much financially whacked out and who really has money for yet another retainer and thousands and thousands of dollars for a contempt hearing?

Yeah I wish I had been told two things when I started the divorce process: 1. lying is commonplace and no one held accountable and 2) 'contempt' is a word frequently thrown around but rarely acted upon.

Cheers!

[ddol1]

to Arabian I agree 100% as in our case my ex has purposefully ignored any and all issues brought up by the court - the judge says it and from there they direct it into "the great garbage bin in the sky". Naïve I know - I just thought if a judge said, "-----------" it would happen. But I have learned along the way!!!!

When I first looked at the topic of this thread the first thing that came to my mind was "how petty." [now don't get pissed off at me - hear me out]

When you prepare things for court you should try to put yourself in the judge's position. Do you really think he cares about your text messages to/from your ex?

With this in mind I would recommend keeping things short and to the point - you want to have Family Wizard used for communication. Your ex is not complying with the court order of xxxx(date). For every month that your ex does not comply with court order (in this case using Family Wizard, or other court-directed communication process) you are seeking financial costs in the amount of $xxx/month.

It's been my experience that court orders are meaningless unless there is a clearly specified consequence for breach of the order.

In my opinion your issue is minor but I do understand it is important to you. I would think that you have to present it in a way that will be taken seriously and not take up a lot of the judge's time.

[arabian]

Hey you are being thorough and I give you huge cudos for that.

Read up on contempt of court in family law. Very interesting and may dramatically shape your divorce agreement.

[ByMyself]

Arabian, thanks for the input.

It's been my experience that court orders are meaningless unless there is a clearly specified consequence for breach of the order.

You're exactly right. Our divorce order, which we discussed wording at trial conference with judge present, is maybe 60% enforceable if tested in court. At least if tested in contempt proceedings, and one is trying to get the ex a slap on the wrist.

With regards to my issue being minor - I assume you are meaning the Family Wizard issue? If so, yes, in the big picture it is minor. But I am doing this as part of a much larger issue - a custody change application. I am just trying to iron out all the "little details" at the same time.

HOPING to eliminate a little more conflict down the road, if some of these "conflict sources" can be addressed at the same time.

[arabian]

When I first looked at the topic of this thread the first thing that came to my mind was "how petty." [now don't get pissed off at me - hear me out]

When you prepare things for court you should try to put yourself in the judge's position. Do you really think he cares about your text messages to/from your ex?

With this in mind I would recommend keeping things short and to the point - you want to have Family Wizard used for communication. Your ex is not complying with the court order of xxxx(date). For every month that your ex does not comply with court order (in this case using Family Wizard, or other court-directed communication process) you are seeking financial costs in the amount of $xxx/month.

It's been my experience that court orders are meaningless unless there is a clearly specified consequence for breach of the order.

In my opinion your issue is minor but I do understand it is important to you. I would think that you have to present it in a way that will be taken seriously and not take up a lot of the judge's time.

[firhill]

all communication to be done through Our Family Wizard." (Suggestions for exact wording gladly accepted)

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Both parties agree to register an account with MyFamilyWizard.com for the purpose of processing and resolving any communication issues involving the parenting of their son/daughter (child's name here). <!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->

[ByMyself]

Love the idea of blocking the texts. Some service providers and phones even have that available. But the problem is, the ex feels perfectly justified in not communicating at all if I won't do it their way. So cutting off text means I get nothing. Which, I guess, is only slightly less than what I get now.

I am hoping that, as part of my change of custody motion, we can tighten up the order to be absolutely clear that "unless in the case of emergency, all communication to be done through Our Family Wizard." (Suggestions for exact wording gladly accepted)

So that's why I am trying to get everything as solid as possible for our next round of court. I want to try to tighten up our divorce order as much as possible, to eliminate the small loopholes that were left, and make things as precise and enforceable as possible - cut and dry.

As cut and dry as possible, for family court at least.

[OhMy]

I can understand the desire to verify the texts. It is too easy to alter them. One may take a photo of a text with the supposed senders name on it, how ever it doesn't list the actual number and could have been sent by someone else. It could have been emailed from your phone then altered etc.

There are a few aps out there that allow you to upload texts tht show the actual number to and from, dated times etc. pair that with your detailed cell summary if you get one or can get one online through your carrier that verify a the incoming and outgoing and that may be enough.

Or present your evidence as is ready with the above in hand.