Verifying Texts

[ByMyself]

I have read a number of threads and opinions on this forum regarding using text messages as evidence.

Best practice seems to be to print off messages and possibly try to have notarized. I have contacted three notaries, none of who wanted to do this.

Others suggest simply printing them off and accompany them with an affidavit.

I am in a HC situation, and am predicting the suggestion that the texts have been altered/ faked. And I don't want to have to spend the $ on a notary if I don't have to.

What does everyone think about the idea of me submitting the transcript of messages into evidence, without notarization, but also sending a registered letter/ email offering up the storage device (the original cell phone on which these texts were sent/ received), for the other party to have inspected by a qualified forensic expert, if they have any concerns about the validity of the texts? (At their cost of course). Could include qualifying statements that forensic examination would be restricted to examining texts between both parties only, no data on phone to be altered, etc.

That way, I have given them the opportunity to verify, using best practice available, the texts. They have been given this opportunity long before trial, so there should be no excuse for them to fight the admissibility of the texts at the start of trial when evidence is introduced, resulting in delays.

Just a thought.. any feedback?

I may seem to be over worried about this, but again, it is a HC situation with a personality disorder on the other side - I know what to expect now.

PS: And if anyone has actually used a notary to notarize text transcripts, do you mind sending me a PM with the firm you used, and idea of cost? West GTA, but willing to drive.

[FB_]

The most important question you have to ask yourself is how are the text messages relevant.

What do you hope to prove with these messages?

Can it be proved via another method.

The judge will probably not care that your ex is HC....If kids are involved I would stick to proving what's in their best interest instead of trying to prove someone is High Conflict...

[ByMyself]

Not trying to prove ex is HC- people like that do a good job pointing it out to the courts on their own.

Just mentioning the HC because HCP's tend to refuse to admit to evidence that makes them look bad. It is a predictable behaviour. I have gone through this already, and wish I had read Bill Eddy's books a few years ago. But I know better now, and am trying to keep ahead of the puck for now on.

The texts show many examples of not facilitating access, placing access decisions in hands of D9, refusing to facilitate D9's attendance at therapy, refusal to use Family Wizard as our divorce order states. Texts from ex threatening to deny access if I don't give in to her immediate demands, stuff like that. I'm not simply trying to make the ex look bad - just trying to show how kids get leveraged by them, put in middle of conflict.

There's also a pattern where the ex emails if it makes them look good (like providing follow up from Dr's appts), but texts if the response is heated or high conflict.

[HappyMomma]

So you need to stop answering texts ASAP. I suggest you do what many others here have and send her a text that looks like you have blocked her texts. That will force her to email you.

[ByMyself]

My standard reply is "I have responded to your text using Family Wizard, as per our order".

I usually get a nasty reply. Oh well

[Mess]

"Error code 388546 number out of service."

[OhMy]

I can understand the desire to verify the texts. It is too easy to alter them. One may take a photo of a text with the supposed senders name on it, how ever it doesn't list the actual number and could have been sent by someone else. It could have been emailed from your phone then altered etc.

There are a few aps out there that allow you to upload texts tht show the actual number to and from, dated times etc. pair that with your detailed cell summary if you get one or can get one online through your carrier that verify a the incoming and outgoing and that may be enough.

Or present your evidence as is ready with the above in hand.

[ByMyself]

Love the idea of blocking the texts. Some service providers and phones even have that available. But the problem is, the ex feels perfectly justified in not communicating at all if I won't do it their way. So cutting off text means I get nothing. Which, I guess, is only slightly less than what I get now.

I am hoping that, as part of my change of custody motion, we can tighten up the order to be absolutely clear that "unless in the case of emergency, all communication to be done through Our Family Wizard." (Suggestions for exact wording gladly accepted)

So that's why I am trying to get everything as solid as possible for our next round of court. I want to try to tighten up our divorce order as much as possible, to eliminate the small loopholes that were left, and make things as precise and enforceable as possible - cut and dry.

As cut and dry as possible, for family court at least.

[firhill]

all communication to be done through Our Family Wizard." (Suggestions for exact wording gladly accepted)

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[arabian]

When I first looked at the topic of this thread the first thing that came to my mind was "how petty." [now don't get pissed off at me - hear me out]

When you prepare things for court you should try to put yourself in the judge's position. Do you really think he cares about your text messages to/from your ex?

With this in mind I would recommend keeping things short and to the point - you want to have Family Wizard used for communication. Your ex is not complying with the court order of xxxx(date). For every month that your ex does not comply with court order (in this case using Family Wizard, or other court-directed communication process) you are seeking financial costs in the amount of $xxx/month.

It's been my experience that court orders are meaningless unless there is a clearly specified consequence for breach of the order.

In my opinion your issue is minor but I do understand it is important to you. I would think that you have to present it in a way that will be taken seriously and not take up a lot of the judge's time.

[ByMyself]

Arabian, thanks for the input.

It's been my experience that court orders are meaningless unless there is a clearly specified consequence for breach of the order.

You're exactly right. Our divorce order, which we discussed wording at trial conference with judge present, is maybe 60% enforceable if tested in court. At least if tested in contempt proceedings, and one is trying to get the ex a slap on the wrist.

With regards to my issue being minor - I assume you are meaning the Family Wizard issue? If so, yes, in the big picture it is minor. But I am doing this as part of a much larger issue - a custody change application. I am just trying to iron out all the "little details" at the same time.

HOPING to eliminate a little more conflict down the road, if some of these "conflict sources" can be addressed at the same time.

[arabian]

Hey you are being thorough and I give you huge cudos for that.

Read up on contempt of court in family law. Very interesting and may dramatically shape your divorce agreement.

[ddol1]

to Arabian I agree 100% as in our case my ex has purposefully ignored any and all issues brought up by the court - the judge says it and from there they direct it into "the great garbage bin in the sky". Naïve I know - I just thought if a judge said, "-----------" it would happen. But I have learned along the way!!!!

When I first looked at the topic of this thread the first thing that came to my mind was "how petty." [now don't get pissed off at me - hear me out]

When you prepare things for court you should try to put yourself in the judge's position. Do you really think he cares about your text messages to/from your ex?

With this in mind I would recommend keeping things short and to the point - you want to have Family Wizard used for communication. Your ex is not complying with the court order of xxxx(date). For every month that your ex does not comply with court order (in this case using Family Wizard, or other court-directed communication process) you are seeking financial costs in the amount of $xxx/month.

It's been my experience that court orders are meaningless unless there is a clearly specified consequence for breach of the order.

In my opinion your issue is minor but I do understand it is important to you. I would think that you have to present it in a way that will be taken seriously and not take up a lot of the judge's time.

[arabian]

so happy to see you back posting ddo!

Yes the contempt thing is so lame in family court isn't it? I know some people have posted some cases from CanLII where contempt was actually found and people punished. However, it is another court case you have to pursue and many have said it's just the same as going through a divorce with the trial and everything.

Thing that bothers me about the whole thing is that those judges know it's a rare thing for contempt in family court - probably simply due to the cost. Once someone has gone through a divorce they are pretty much financially whacked out and who really has money for yet another retainer and thousands and thousands of dollars for a contempt hearing?

Yeah I wish I had been told two things when I started the divorce process: 1. lying is commonplace and no one held accountable and 2) 'contempt' is a word frequently thrown around but rarely acted upon.

Cheers!

[ByMyself]

I don't have it handy, but I have come across a case on CanLii where the judge looked at the filing of a bona fide contempt motion as a substantial change in circumstance, justifying revisiting a final divorce order.

The problem with contempt in family law, as I see it, is that the person in contempt only has to right the wrong - to purge themselves of the contempt - and your case against them is done. They can be caught "red handed" - doesn't matter. Too often, as soon as the contempt in purged (even in the 11th hour), the court case effectively loses its steam. Some time passes, and the party can again begin ignoring the order, because the case never really sees the courtroom.

I know it may not be in the best interests of children to have their parents punished - but how are families to take their divorce orders seriously without serious consequences?

To get the courts to really recognize the contempt, you have a very tall order. Not only are you trying to prove contempt according to the tests, but you also need to reflect upon how the contempt is affecting the children in some negative way.

Thank goodness for the work of some judges over the last few years - starting to send stronger messages to parents who hold little regard for the court orders, and how their actions are not in the best interests of children.

Hopefully their precedences will pave the way for more judges to examine closely what is really going on in their courtrooms, and seek better solutions for families that cannot bring an end to their fighting on their own.