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  • Police order to intervene

    Hi,
    My friends brother in law is a cop and she asked him if there is anything a person can do if your ex just decides to keep the kids on your day. He said they can only respond if there is violence happening BUT you can ask a judge to make an order that says if your ex withholds the kids, or causes trouble with you in front of them the police will come and assist.
    Anyone hear of this?

  • #2
    I believe what your BIL is referring to would be something along the lines of

    Court Order with Police Enforcement Clause - police forces commonly require this as it should clearly outline when/where police are to intervene. Often police face law suits after they intervene in family/domestic matters so I can't blame them for wanting to cover their butts.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Karver View Post
      Hi,
      My friends brother in law is a cop and she asked him if there is anything a person can do if your ex just decides to keep the kids on your day. He said they can only respond if there is violence happening BUT you can ask a judge to make an order that says if your ex withholds the kids, or causes trouble with you in front of them the police will come and assist.
      Anyone hear of this?
      yes it can happen, but its not a good idea, for the following reasons.

      1- if its a man calling the cops, in all likeliness he could end up being charged with false allegations.
      2- in front of the judge the party who called police would look like the aggressive party
      better let the other party get away with denials of access couple of times, record every thing comprehensively and then bring a contempt motion.

      see
      CanLII - 2013 ONCJ 133 (CanLII)
      and
      CanLII - 2013 ONCJ 403 (CanLII)

      both links are to the same case where the judge granted a contempt due to denied access and then awarded $10,000 in costs!

      Comment


      • #4
        I just want to stop my ex from just deciding to keep the kids when he feels I need to suffer. I'd rather just call the cops than go to lawyer and court....

        Comment


        • #5
          a friend of mine had it put into the court order that if the dad was later than 30 min with the kids with no phonecall that the police would be called to retrieve the kids. He was a heavy drinker so im sure that that made a big difference. (if he was late he was likely drunk, and not staying sober for access (like he was court ordered to do,)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Karver View Post
            I just want to stop my ex from just deciding to keep the kids when he feels I need to suffer. I'd rather just call the cops than go to lawyer and court....
            First off I think the police have better things to do then get involved in petty squabbles like that. I would rather have them after the drug dealers etc.

            Second there is a way to deal with your issue and its called court. Just because you dont want the hassle isnt a reason not to use it. It is more beneficial to you to have a court see what is going on and deal with it.

            Third, think of the kids. How are they going to feel when/if the cops show up at their dads door because you called them? They are not going to like it one bit and you will look like the bad person.

            Comment


            • #7
              My ex has had my young kids for 16 days. We've got court today- he doesn't care. I've been going to the school every morning to see my kids this past week for 5 minutes (he drops em off and picks them up, he's rich enough he doesn't have to work). My grade 2er is sad and withdrawn (words of teacher) in his first week of grade 2. This was an unnecessary heartache and not the first.
              I've seen my ex close-line people and he has threatened me in the past.
              I'm fine with calling the cops on him. It's gonna happen eventually and I don't need it being me he close lined in front of my 3 boys.
              I hope the judge kicks him in the ass today, but he's pulled a lawyer out of it at the last minute, so I don't know what that's going to mean, but his control is bullshit and needs to be punished or he will Never stop.

              Comment


              • #8
                excuse my ignorance but what is "close lined" ? Never heard that expression before.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by arabian View Post
                  excuse my ignorance but what is "close lined" ? Never heard that expression before.
                  It's a wrestling move. Straight arm to the throat. Like running into a clothes line.
                  Last edited by FB_; 09-06-2013, 09:58 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      what is "close lined" ?
                      They meant clothes lined:
                      clothes·line (klzln, klz-)
                      n.
                      A cord, rope, or wire on which clothes may be hung to dry or air.
                      tr.v. clothes·lined, clothes·lin·ing, clothes·lines Sports
                      To knock down (an opponent in an athletic contest) by hooking the neck with an outstretched arm.

                      Police enforcement clauses are a mixed blessing. The police generally do not like enforcing them - pulling unhappy kids from one house to another is not anyone's idea of a good shift at work. Furthermore, there is the risk of emotional damage to the children, depending on whether the kids have a preference with respect to access.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        About police enforcement.

                        I know nobody wants the police to go physically intervening and grabbing kids or anything. But why can't they just talk to the parents in low voices and threaten to charge the denying parent with Failure to Comply and write up a police report? Even if the children never do change over, at least there are some written down neutral observations of the occurrence that the denied parent can use in court later.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Police enforcement clauses are VERY hard to get, and ever MORE difficult to get the police to actually COMPLY with them.

                          I know nobody wants the police to go physically intervening and grabbing kids or anything. But why can't they just talk to the parents in low voices and threaten to charge the denying parent with Failure to Comply and write up a police report?
                          Police are not allowed to threaten. Custody/access disputes are considered a family law matter. Police deal with criminal law, and ONLY with criminal law.

                          TECHNICALLY any refusal to return the children when there is a valid custody order in place is a criminal offense under sections 127 AND 282 of the Criminal Code of Canada.

                          You have to push very very hard, and chances are the police will NOT want to enforce.

                          Section 282

                          (1) [ Abduction in contravention of custody order ]

                          Every one who, being the parent, guardian or person having the lawful care or charge of a person under the age of fourteen years, takes, entices away, conceals, detains, receives or harbours that person, in contravention of the custody provisions of a custody order in relation to that person made by a court anywhere in Canada, with intent to deprive a parent or guardian, or any other person who has the lawful care or charge of that person, of the possession of that person is guilty of

                          (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, or
                          (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

                          (2) [ Where no belief in validity of custody order ]

                          Where a count charges an offence under subsection (1) and the offence is not proven only because the accused did not believe that there was a valid custody order but the evidence does prove an offence under section 283, the accused may be convicted of an offence under section 283.
                          However, GOOD LUCK getting the police involved...they'll try anything to NOT be..I was flat out told they needed the permission of the Attorney General to do so...which is incorrect, as that only applies to 283.

                          Section 283

                          (1) [ Abduction ]

                          Every one who, being the parent, guardian or person having the lawful care or charge of a person under the age of fourteen years, takes, entices away, conceals, detains, receives or harbours that person, whether or not there is a custody order in relation to that person made by a court anywhere in Canada, with intent to deprive a parent or guardian, or any other person who has the lawful care or charge of that person, of the possession of that
                          person, is guilty of

                          (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, or
                          (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

                          (2) [ Consent required ]

                          No proceedings may be commenced under subsection (1) without the consent of the Attorney General or counsel instructed by him for that purpose.
                          The ONLY other relevant section that would apply is Section 127:

                          Disobeying order of court

                          127. (1) Every one who, without lawful excuse, disobeys a lawful order made by a court of justice or by a person or body of persons authorized by any Act to make or give the order, other than an order for the payment of money, is, unless a punishment or other mode of proceeding is expressly provided by law, guilty of
                          (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
                          (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
                          Marginal note:Attorney General of Canada may act

                          (2) Where the order referred to in subsection (1) was made in proceedings instituted at the instance of the Government of Canada and conducted by or on behalf of that Government, any proceedings in respect of a contravention of or conspiracy to contravene that order may be instituted and conducted in like manner.
                          R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 127; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 185(F); 2005, c. 32, s. 1.
                          Even if the children never do change over, at least there are some written down neutral observations of the occurrence that the denied parent can use in court later.
                          This is the case anyway. If the other party refuses to hand over the children, you CAN call the police, and you CAN ask for an incident report. Get the names and badge numbers of the officers involved, and request they provide you with the incident report #. Your lawyer can then subpoena the report itself and/or call the officers in to give viva voche evidence.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My ex has had my young kids for 16 days. We've got court today- he doesn't care. I've been going to the school every morning to see my kids this past week for 5 minutes (he drops em off and picks them up, he's rich enough he doesn't have to work). My grade 2er is sad and withdrawn (words of teacher) in his first week of grade 2. This was an unnecessary heartache and not the first.
                            I've seen my ex close-line people and he has threatened me in the past.
                            I'm fine with calling the cops on him. It's gonna happen eventually and I don't need it being me he close lined in front of my 3 boys.
                            I hope the judge kicks him in the ass today, but he's pulled a lawyer out of it at the last minute, so I don't know what that's going to mean, but his control is bullshit and needs to be punished or he will Never stop.
                            Karver:

                            I wish you the best of luck in court today but sooo much of what is going on in your case is because of your passivity and continued weakness in dealing with your ex.

                            I can tell you right now. If my ex took my kids for 16 days in a row, I'd simply go the school a bit earlier and pick my kids up myself on my access day. He could go pound sand. If he attacked me...whatever...I'd hope I had some witnesses and call the cops. It would make the restraining order and emergency motion for access I'd file immediately after go much smoother.

                            You are these children's mother. If your ex can go to the school and pick them up...SO CAN YOU. I mean seriously..wtf? Do you just stand there while he takes the kids on your day?

                            Forgive me for being critical...but although you're obviously highly intelligent...you also come off as indecisive, confused, weak-willed and easily manipulated.

                            Understand that your ex is not going to work in yours or probably your children's best interest. You are their mother...it is your responsiblity to ensure that they have a healthy, ongoing relationship with you and see you as a strong role model in their lives. Your ex isn't He-Man....he's just a f'ing annoying douche who's pushing you around. But you can stop that if you change your attitude. So much of this is not his fault...its yours. You've established a pattern of behavior with him that is demeaning and unhealthy and you don't seem to be doing anything to change it. You need to understand that so much of what happening is completely within your control to change.

                            You can wait around for your lawyer ....or for the the court system...etc. And all of those are tools in your arsenal...but ultimately, you need to change your attitude and behavior. Your ex is doing anything to you that you aren't sitting around and let happen. Stop whining and grow a backbone. I put up with a lot of crap for a long time during my marriage...but when my ex tried to take my parental rights away from me, I didn't hestitate to fight back in every possible way I could. Its my job as a mother...and its your job too. You're the first person who needs to change here. Everything else will flow from there. And you need to change right now!

                            (By the way, sorry if this comes off as really harsh but that "I'm a victim" mentality drives me up a wall).
                            Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 09-06-2013, 01:24 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                              Karver:

                              I wish you the best of luck in court today but sooo much of what is going on in your case is because of your passivity and continued weakness in dealing with your ex.

                              I can tell you right now. If my ex took my kids for 16 days in a row, I'd simply go the school a bit earlier and pick my kids up myself on my access day. He could go pound sand. If he attacked me...whatever...I'd hope I had some witnesses and call the cops. It would make the restraining order and emergency motion for access I'd file immediately after go much smoother.

                              You are these children's mother. If your ex can go to the school and pick them up...SO CAN YOU. I mean seriously..wtf? Do you just stand there while he takes the kids on your day?

                              Forgive me for being critical...but although you're obviously highly intelligent...you also come off as indecisive, confused, weak-willed and easily manipulated.

                              Understand that your ex is not going to work in yours or probably your children's best interest. You are their mother...it is your responsiblity to ensure that they have a healthy, ongoing relationship with you and see you as a strong role model in their lives. Your ex isn't He-Man....he's just a f'ing annoying douche who's pushing you around. But you can stop that if you change your attitude. So much of this is not his fault...its yours. You've established a pattern of behavior with him that is demeaning and unhealthy and you don't seem to be doing anything to change it. You need to understand that so much of what happening is completely within your control to change.

                              You can wait around for your lawyer ....or for the the court system...etc. And all of those are tools in your arsenal...but ultimately, you need to change your attitude and behavior. Your ex is doing anything to you that you aren't sitting around and let happen. Stop whining and grow a backbone. I put up with a lot of crap for a long time during my marriage...but when my ex tried to take my parental rights away from me, I didn't hestitate to fight back in every possible way I could. Its my job as a mother...and its your job too. You're the first person who needs to change here. Everything else will flow from there. And you need to change right now!

                              (By the way, sorry if this comes off as really harsh but that "I'm a victim" mentality drives me up a wall).

                              Very, very well said and I agree 100%!

                              Comment

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