Update & More questions

[MS Mom]

Back off to the courthouse tomorrow with Financial statement in hand, waiting on the Ministry Form to come back via fax.

A couple more questions have arisen since I last posted:

1. We currently have joint custody. He's leaving the country - won't specify when. My daughter has been asked to go on vacation with my parents. Can I demand a letter from him so that I have travel/medical covered without his consent?
2. Seems silly - but - he refuses to return my daughter's pet. He plans on taking it with him. The pet was mine before I met the ex, he took the pet when his new wife said she wanted it. Good timing for us as it appeared that the cat wouldn't get along with a dog we rescued. At the time, perfect solution - cat goes to dad's....pet belongs to child. Now, the child wants the pet back and my parents are able to take the pet (my daughter spends a lot of time with my parents). He refuses to give the pet back. Point Blank.
Willing to leave his child, but not the cat - shaking my head.... haven't told my daughter that he won't give the cat back yet.

Any recourse for this? Or does this fall under the "mean people do mean things" column, and for lack of a better phrase, suck it up buttercup?

[FB_]

You could ask to have his consent waived in your motion for passport and travel consent since it might be difficult to obtain if he is in a different country.

It seems that the pet is his property. He can do as he wishes with it.

[Berner_Faith]

I don't want to sound harsh here because I am a HUGE animal lover and would fight tooth and nail for my animals, however the way you described the situation is the cat was YOURS, you then handed that cat over to DAD because your new rescue dog would not get along with it. You gave up the cat and Dad took the cat in and has had it since. He is now moving (or so he says) and will be taking HIS cat with him.

One thing that really irks me with parents in the whole "kids pet" thing. A child can think a pet is his/her's but be honest, if the parents didn't want the pet, the pet would not be in the house, why? Because many kids are not capable of taking care of a pet, thus the pet is really the adults responsibility.

I commend you for rescuing a dog. I do a lot of rescue myself. But you have to remember, you provided consent for Dad to be the owner of the cat by handing the cat over. Dad is under no obligation to give the cat back.

This reminds me of what happened to my partner with his ex. He had a dog that he bought during the marriage, she wanted to keep the dog when they separated, last summer she said she didn't have time for the dog and if we didn't take it she would find him a new home. We took in the dog, however already had 2 dogs of our own at this time. He was not getting along with out other dog and was marking on EVERYTHING...even after spending hours outside with us, he would run in the house and pee on the table legs. We ended up giving him to a really good family friend, a single dog home and he has had no issues and everyone is happy.

About a month ago, she requested the dog back because her new bf had a dog and she wanted a dog so they could walk their dogs together. The answer was obviously no, she gave him the dog and we found an appropriate home for him. Does she think she would have gotten the dog back, had she found a home for him with some random person? Same goes in your situation. Had you given the cat up because of some other reason and then your situation approved, would you expect the new home to give the cat back?

[MS Mom]

You could ask to have his consent waived in your motion for passport and travel consent since it might be difficult to obtain if he is in a different country.

It seems that the pet is his property. He can do as he wishes with it.

The issue is he's likely to have already left the country prior to getting this in the courts. So, in the interim...between now and the court date....

Medical and travel are my concerns....he doesn't seem to care that I don't have the decision making power I require if he's going to be a time zone or two away.

I couldn't have made a request before the court earlier, as this is a result of his decision to leave, and his decision to not inform anyone of this until days/weeks before he goes (rather than the months it took in the planning phase - the guy already has a job there, already sold his house here). It's my understanding (although he hasn't specified, but reading between lines and discussing with others involved), that he'll be gone by the end of next week. If he were up front and honest, this would all be so much easier to deal with.

I hear the pet problem - I can see why he would consider the cat "his now" - even though she was mine before I met him and has been considered the daughter's since she was born. I could have easily sent her to my parents then as well, but having a pet at home and a pet at dad's seemed like the perfect solution at the time. I'm just shocked he's willing to leave his daughter, but not the cat......

[FB_]

The issue is he's likely to have already left the country prior to getting this in the courts. So, in the interim...between now and the court date....

Medical and travel are my concerns....he doesn't seem to care that I don't have the decision making power I require if he's going to be a time zone or two away.

I couldn't have made a request before the court earlier, as this is a result of his decision to leave, and his decision to not inform anyone of this until days/weeks before he goes (rather than the months it took in the planning phase - the guy already has a job there, already sold his house here). It's my understanding (although he hasn't specified, but reading between lines and discussing with others involved), that he'll be gone by the end of next week. If he were up front and honest, this would all be so much easier to deal with.

I hear the pet problem - I can see why he would consider the cat "his now" - even though she was mine before I met him and has been considered the daughter's since she was born. I could have easily sent her to my parents then as well, but having a pet at home and a pet at dad's seemed like the perfect solution at the time. I'm just shocked he's willing to leave his daughter, but not the cat......

You really can't do anything until he does leave. Once that happens you can file a motion. (EDIT: This may not be accurate. You may be able to file an emergency motion, but I do not know)

I understand the emotion of the pet. However under the law a pet is property. You gave him property as part of the separation. All of that property is his to do as he chooses with. You will lose in court and probably pay costs.

[MS Mom]

I don't want to sound harsh here because I am a HUGE animal lover and would fight tooth and nail for my animals, however the way you described the situation is the cat was YOURS, you then handed that cat over to DAD because your new rescue dog would not get along with it. You gave up the cat and Dad took the cat in and has had it since. He is now moving (or so he says) and will be taking HIS cat with him.

One thing that really irks me with parents in the whole "kids pet" thing. A child can think a pet is his/her's but be honest, if the parents didn't want the pet, the pet would not be in the house, why? Because many kids are not capable of taking care of a pet, thus the pet is really the adults responsibility.

I commend you for rescuing a dog. I do a lot of rescue myself. But you have to remember, you provided consent for Dad to be the owner of the cat by handing the cat over. Dad is under no obligation to give the cat back.

This reminds me of what happened to my partner with his ex. He had a dog that he bought during the marriage, she wanted to keep the dog when they separated, last summer she said she didn't have time for the dog and if we didn't take it she would find him a new home. We took in the dog, however already had 2 dogs of our own at this time. He was not getting along with out other dog and was marking on EVERYTHING...even after spending hours outside with us, he would run in the house and pee on the table legs. We ended up giving him to a really good family friend, a single dog home and he has had no issues and everyone is happy.

About a month ago, she requested the dog back because her new bf had a dog and she wanted a dog so they could walk their dogs together. The answer was obviously no, she gave him the dog and we found an appropriate home for him. Does she think she would have gotten the dog back, had she found a home for him with some random person? Same goes in your situation. Had you given the cat up because of some other reason and then your situation approved, would you expect the new home to give the cat back?

The pet was in my house for 2 years before I met him, 5 years before the child was born. She was my pet, and was then considered our daughters (by both of us) since she could walk. My daughter is a HUGE animal lover, and actually takes excellent care of her pets (two dogs, two guinea pigs in our house, snake coming soon).

The cat only went to dad's because, at the time, the child spent 40% of her time there and it seemed logical. The first time the child asked dad to take the pet, he said NO. Then he met his wife, who likes cats, so he changed his mind (and yes, he met and had this women move in with him from thousands of miles away in a matter of weeks). I could have easily taken the cat to my parents at that time, so there was always an alternate location for the pet. He never considered the cat entirely "his" at all....he asked me to pay him back for vet bills....which I did. I think the idea of taking a pet to your "dad's" over a stranger is that you still get to be a part of the pet's life, and dad really should give it back. Dad is very different than a stranger......

[Berner_Faith]

You are correct, Dad is not a stranger, however you gave Dad property. If Dad gave you the cat and then decided to move and wanted it back, what would your answer be?

This is not something you want to fight in court, because a pet is property and you gave him that property. I get how upsetting this would be, like I said, I would fight tooth and nail for my pets and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them, but unfortunately, this is something you will not win.

[MS Mom]

You really can't do anything until he does leave. Once that happens you can file a motion. (EDIT: This may not be accurate. You may be able to file an emergency motion, but I do not know)

I understand the emotion of the pet. However under the law a pet is property. You gave him property as part of the separation. All of that property is his to do as he chooses with. You will lose in court and probably pay costs.

The cat was given to him almost 5 years after separation. It wasn't an asset to be divided in the separation. When the division of assets happened, the cat went with me (as the child was residing with me). We considered the cat to be a living, breathing thing and she went where itw was best for her and the child. His refusal to give the pet back is 100% about his wife, just like him taking the pet was.

I have to shake my head every so often and remember that he's not really interested in what's best for our daughter, only what's best for his wife.

[DowntroddenDad]

The cat was given to him almost 5 years after separation. It wasn't an asset to be divided in the separation. When the division of assets happened, the cat went with me (as the child was residing with me). We considered the cat to be a living, breathing thing and she went where itw was best for her and the child. His refusal to give the pet back is 100% about his wife, just like him taking the pet was.

I have to shake my head every so often and remember that he's not really interested in what's best for our daughter, only what's best for his wife.

I would suggest you gave him custody of the pet, because it was convenient for you, and I am sure at the time there was no mention of a condition that would allow you to take the cat back. So yes I am afraid suck it up buttercup is probably appropriate. Don't get caught up in why, it only makes it harder to accept.

[MS Mom]

You are correct, Dad is not a stranger, however you gave Dad property. If Dad gave you the cat and then decided to move and wanted it back, what would your answer be?

This is not something you want to fight in court, because a pet is property and you gave him that property. I get how upsetting this would be, like I said, I would fight tooth and nail for my pets and there is nothing I wouldn't do for them, but unfortunately, this is something you will not win.

There's no real court intentions over this.....I don't have ridiculous amounts of money (or insanity) to deal with a cat in court......

I'd give him the cat back, as long as he bothered with the daughter (which he isn't doing), because that's what would be best for my daughter. Easy for me to make that decision. Personally, I don't care one way or another about the cat - I don't want her back, my daughter does. The cat is 16, and probably won't make it until the return home.....and if he returns home wihtout the wife, then it's unlikely the cat will come with him. Because, as I said, he's taking it because of the wife, not him.

[MS Mom]

I would suggest you gave him custody of the pet, because it was convenient for you, and I am sure at the time there was no mention of a condition that would allow you to take the cat back. So yes I am afraid suck it up buttercup is probably appropriate. Don't get caught up in why, it only makes it harder to accept.

That's my struggle on this DD.....the why??? He's picking up and leaving his daughter and he wants to get all picky picky over a cat. I'm still flabbergasted that he's so willing to just up and go without even seeing his dautghter in 1.5 years, but, the cat.....nooooo, can't leave the cat behind. Somehow, it just might make the dad leaving thing a little easier for my daughter to take. But, as usual, he doesn't really care much about that.

[HammerDad]

That's my struggle on this DD.....the why??? He's picking up and leaving his daughter and he wants to get all picky picky over a cat. I'm still flabbergasted that he's so willing to just up and go without even seeing his dautghter in 1.5 years, but, the cat.....nooooo, can't leave the cat behind. Somehow, it just might make the dad leaving thing a little easier for my daughter to take. But, as usual, he doesn't really care much about that.

Umm, I doubt he is abandoning his child. Yes, he is moving, which will have an impact on his ability to see the child, but I doubt he pictures it as abandoning her.

Also, you are comparing apples and oranges. As the cat is his property and therefore he can do as he pleases with it (because you gave it to him, how long you had it before is irrelevant. It is his now, he has been paying the bills and providing a home). The child is not his property and thus he cannot relocate to wherever he please with her. I bet her would love to take the child with him, but that isn't his call.

He is making decisions about things he is allowed to make decisions about. Nothing more, nothing less. Cat = property, child = not property. Simple as that.

[Pursuinghappiness]

My advice.

If you can afford it (and deal with the hassle) rescue another cat. Tell you daughter that she's giving another cat that might be put down otherwise a home, while her dad gives the previous cat a home.

Although, I know that each pet is a unique member of the family and cannot exactly be replaced, you can explain to your daughter that in the end, two animals instead of one will have owners to care for them so she's helping to save an animal's life and provide them with the love and care they deserve.

Hopefully she'll see both the previous cat and her dad once he moves. I hope he's not truly abandoning her.

[Mess]

Hire a good, REALLY good lawyer. I mean like a $1,000 an hour lawyer, and sue your ex's ass off for the cat.

[MS Mom]

Umm, I doubt he is abandoning his child. Yes, he is moving, which will have an impact on his ability to see the child, but I doubt he pictures it as abandoning her.

Also, you are comparing apples and oranges. As the cat is his property and therefore he can do as he pleases with it (because you gave it to him, how long you had it before is irrelevant. It is his now, he has been paying the bills and providing a home). The child is not his property and thus he cannot relocate to wherever he please with her. I bet her would love to take the child with him, but that isn't his call.

He is making decisions about things he is allowed to make decisions about. Nothing more, nothing less. Cat = property, child = not property. Simple as that.

He hasn't seen the child in well over a year (his choice) prior to moving. Which is why I'm requesting the Final order be changed. So, no, he doesn't want to take the child. He made it quite clear in a handwritten note "You can keep her...." among some other, not so nice comments.

He's of course allowed to do what ever he wishes, but, he's leaving me without any medical/travel authority, which isn't really in anyone's best interests, especially the child. He hasn't bothered with trying to change his access post-move, he hasn't bothered with the legalities of us the joint custody (which he fought tooth and nail for).

And, personally, I think he is making decisions that affect that child.....like leaving the country without a plan to ever see her again. But, that's just my opinion.

So, it really isn't so apples and oranges to me. He's fought much harder over this cat in the last day than the child in the last 16 months. All the more heartbreaking for me.