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**mom2three** · 03-28-2013, 12:28 PM

I am confused about something. Why would you seek OCL involvement only after the sale of the home?

**FB_** · 03-28-2013, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by mom2three View Post

I am confused about something. Why would you seek OCL involvement only after the sale of the home?

Sorry I didn't word it correctly.

Once an appropriate interim living arrangement is in place and the Mat home has been listed for sale, an order requesting the involvement of the ocl.....

I'm not sure why my lawyer worded it that way.

**Rioe** · 03-28-2013, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by FB_ View Post

I need to put an offer to settle together ahead of my long motion.

Items that I have asked for at the motion are.

1. Interim order for joint custody
2. Interim order for shared parenting access schedule 2-2-3
3. Alernative to 2 a different shared parenting arrgement as deemed just and in the best interest of the children
4. An order directing that neither parents shall change the residence of the children from current city.
5. Alternative to 1-4 an interim order granting sole custody and primary residence to me.
6. upon sale of the home an order for the OCL pursuant to section 89 and/or 112 of the Courts of Justice Act.
7. Order for child support ... set-off her to pay table to me I'm to pay table to her
8. In the alternative to 5. Her to pay me table.
9. standard s7.
10-16 Sale of matrimonial home. Payment of all joint debt. Equity held in trust until further order or agreement and other real estate stuff.
17 An order for costs on a full recovery basis.
18. Post-judgment interest
19. Further relief as deemed just

So the question is how and what should I put in an offer to settle without knowing exactly what she will be asking for.

I'm still debating on offering to buy her out of the house.

I think my requests are pretty fair and pretty much what my offer is. She is going to throw a bunch of shit at the wall and see what she can get to stick. I know she won't accept any offer anyway but my lawyer says we should sent one.

This stuff reads as what you are going to ask the court for, which makes sense for a motion, but for an offer to the other party to settle before court, I would do it differently. I would trim it down and not put any options in at all. Keep it simple and straightforward so she cannot possibly claim to not understand it.

Child Issues

1. Joint custody
2. 50-50 access with 2-2-3 schedule; FB on Mon-Tues, Ex on Wed-Fri, alternating weekends
3. Holidays, special occasions and school breaks to be divided equally by alternating years
4. Neither parent shall change the residence of the children from current city.
5. Child support by offset method: FB pays table to Ex, Ex pays table to FB, with annual adjustment after tax time
6. Section 7 extraordinary expenses proportional to incomes, with annual adjustment after tax time

Equalization Issues

7. Sale of matrimonial home. Proceeds to pay all joint debt before division of remainder.

Costs

8. Should this offer not be accepted before commencement of trial, FB will seek costs.

I believe this would also be a clear offer for a judge who would later rule on costs. Leaving out your pseudo-threat about going for sole highlights how reasonable your offer is.

**FB_** · 03-28-2013, 03:16 PM

What I wrote was not my offer it was what I am asking for in at the motion.

The problem I was having is that my offer to settle looks almost identical to what I am asking for.

So yes my offer would be

1. Interim Joint Custody
2. Interim Shared Access 2-2-3 stbx Mon Tue me Wed Thur alternating Fri Sat Sun
3. Equal sharing of all holidays
4. Neither parent can change the city of residence wo/ consent or court order (School district would actually be worse as Dufferin Peel is huge. I could say 10km from our Matrimonial home.
5. Child support we both pay table to each other recalculated annually
6. Sec 7 expenses 61/39.
7. Sale of Matrimonial home held in trust until further order or agreement
8. This offer expirses 1 minute after the commencment of motion
9. Costs

Zero chance of her accepting it but whatever.

**mom2three** · 03-28-2013, 03:46 PM

FB_:

I am assuming that you will be having your lawyer draft the offer to settle?

Typically in a offer, each party assumes their costs up to the time of the offer, after which the offeror will seek costs should the offer not be accepted. With just 'costs' down there I would be thinking "He wants me to accept AND pay his costs?"

As for her agreeing to your offer, that is irrelevant. The purpose of the offer is to mitigate expenses by not bringing it before the courts. Let her NOT accept it and if the order is equal to or better than your offer you are presumed to have costs awarded in your favour.

You have nothing to worry about (except her sheenanigans). Your offer is exceptionally reasonable.

**FB_** · 04-02-2013, 01:44 PM

Just going a little deeper into the offer.

Here is where I'm at.

I'm planning on making several offers which shows I am willing to do a complete shared access arrangement assuming she stays in Brampton.

If she decides to move to Orangeville I would take on the primary parent responsibilities allowing her to have the kids eow and one weeknight every two weeks. I would also be open to her having 2 weekends then me 1.

Just looking for your thoughts.

Offer 1 - She stays in Brampton
1. Interim Joint Custody
2. Interim Shared Access 2-2-3 stbx Mon Tue me Wed Thur alternating Fri Sat Sun
3. Equal sharing of all holidays
4. Neither parent can change the city of residence wo/ consent or court order. I could say 10km from our Matrimonial home or current school.
5. Child support we both pay table to each other recalculated annually
6. Sec 7 expenses 61/39.
7. Sale of Matrimonial home held in trust until further order or agreement
8. This offer expires 1 minute after the commencement of motion
9. No costs

Offer 2 - She Stays in Brampton
1. Interim Joint Custody
2. Interim Shared Access 2-2-3 stbx Mon Tue me Wed Thur alternating Fri Sat Sun
3. Equal sharing of all holidays
4. Neither parent can change the city of residence wo/ consent or court order. I could say 10km from our Matrimonial home or school
5. Child support we both pay table to each other recalculated annually
6. Sec 7 expenses 61/39.
7. I buy her out of her share of the matrimonial home
8. This offer expires 1 minute after the commencement of motion
9. No costs

Offer 3 -She Moves to Orangeville
1. Interim Joint Custody
2. Interim Access - She gets EOW and Wednesday after school to drop off at School Thursday one week and Wednesday 3:30 - 7:30 the next week.
3. I have primary residence in Brampton.
4. All agreed upon kids extracurricular activities are to be registered in Brampton.
5. Equal sharing of all holidays and summer vacation
6. Child support she pays me table
7. Sec 7 expenses 61/39.
8. Sale of Matrimonial home held in trust until further order or agreement
9. This offer expires 1 minute after the commencement of motion
10. No Costs

Offer 4 -She Moves to Orangeville
1. Interim Joint Custody
2. Interim Access - She gets EOW and Wednesday after school to drop off at School Thursday one week and Wednesday 3:30 - 7:30 the next week.
3. I have primary residence in Brampton.
4. All agreed upon kids extracurricular activities are to be registered in Brampton.
5. Equal sharing of all holidays and summer vacation
6. Child support she pays me table
7. Sec 7 expenses 61/39.
8. I buy out her share of Matrimonial home.
9. This offer expires 1 minute after the commencement of motion
10. No Costs

**FB_** · 04-02-2013, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by oink View Post

Surely you meant FB on Mon and Tues overnight, Ex on Wed and Thurs overnights.....both parties alternating weekends which starts on a Fri afternoon?

This will give 50-50

I am in the same boat and FB will tell you we are married to the same person

FB....That is a lot of offers to settle you have lined up, and the 1 minute timeline?

How much is does it cost to bring a motion anyway?

I'll let you know when I get the bill.

~$5000.00 just a guess

The motion is at 10:00 am. So if I get to be heard first only a couple of hours of work. If it's heard at 4:00 pm then it could get expensive sitting and having coffee with my lawyer all day.

The 1 minutes after the start of the motion is pretty standard, otherwise they could accept the offer after getting their butts kicked in court lol.

**mom2three** · 04-02-2013, 05:10 PM

The 'one minute after' is part of the criteria for making and withdrawing offers; an offer must not be withdrawn and must not expire before the commencement of the hearing.

**FB_** · 04-03-2013, 09:32 AM

So I just want to know if everyone thinks my offers are reasonable?

Does anyone have any more suggestions?

I'd like to get this info to my lawyer today.

Thanks

**FB_** · 04-16-2013, 02:06 PM

I just received the offers from my lawyer.

One to resolve our Property issues only on a final basis.

The other an offer for the motion.

My lawyer has a concern that she has a high probability of getting interim spousal support.

Basically he is saying that on motion at this early stage and given the fact that we both will be potentially moving out of the mat home soon, there is a risk the court could err on the side of a higher spousal support payment at this stage or alternatively a higher child support payment. He basically said the court will not dig too far into the matter other than looking at current incomes and the property. He also went on to say with a shared parenting arrangement, the court may want to see a 50-50 division of net disposable income to ensure a similar standard of living for the children in each household.

A 50/50 NDI would put spousal at $402/month including set-off child support of 420/month.

So to get to the point he is suggesting I offer more than set-off payment in child support. He says the more non-taxable child support she receives the less her need/claim for spousal support. He is currently recommending $500.00 / month in child support instead of $420.00.

I have not had a discussion with him yet regarding her moving in with her bf and if that would affect the potential claim.

The offer is contingent on her residing in the "Region of Peel". Which Orangeville does not so maybe that's why the offer is expecting her to get her own place.

I am scheduling a meeting with him to discuss and sign the offer hopefully tomorrow or Friday.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter.

Here are the details of the offer to settle the motion.

1. The issue of custody will be adjourned to trial
2. 50/50 access 2-2-3
3. Reside in Peel
4. OCL involvment
5. Child support from me to her in the amount of $500.00
6. 60% towards the net costs of all discussed and agreed upon special and extraordinary expense upon verification by way of documentary evidence.
7. Maintain children's benefits
8. Life insurance for the benefit of the children
9. Sale of the home
10. Name xxxx as real estate agent
11. fully cooperate with the sale and real estate agent
12. Name xxxx as real estate solicitor
13. Payment of all joint debt
14. equal split of remaining money.
15. All issues of interim motion to be dismissed
16. All issues to be adjourned to mutually convenient settlement conference date.
17. There shall be not costs payable
18. This offer is open for acceptance until one-minute after the commencement of arguing the long motion on May 8th.

Here are the details to settle the property.
1. I will buy out stbx of the house for $xxx
2. I will pay off the mortgage and all joint debt
3. I will pay all legal fees and registration costs
4. We will each be responsible for our own debts and liabilities
5. on or before may 31 all other joint accounts shall be divided and closed
6. on or before may 31 I transfer my interest in her vehicle
7. on or before may 31 she transfers her interest in my vehicle.
8. on or before may 31 equally divide household contents
9. up complete the applicant shall have exclusive possession of the home and the respondent shall immediately vacate the property along with her share of the goods and contents
10. upon complete I shall be responsible for 100% of all expenses related to the home.
11. Pending transfer the parties shall be each 50% responsible for all household expenses
12. No equalization payment. All property claims for an unequal division of net family property shall be dismissed. All claims each has to property of the other, including all pensions shall be waived. The parties shall sign all documents and pension waivers necessary to give effect to this agreement.
13. There shall be no costs payable with respect to property issues
14. All other issues including custody, access and support remain for resolution.
15. This offers remains open until one minutes after.........May 8th.

**Rioe** · 04-16-2013, 03:05 PM

If you're proposing to pay 60% of section 7 expenses, then your incomes are not that far apart. How can spousal support even be considered? Disappointing attitude from your lawyer. Maybe he expects your ex to reject it and wants it to look like a very nice offer later in court for costs purposes?

Anyways, I'd frame it as table amount for CS, plus $80 a month in SS. Call it what it is, and that way as incomes fluctuate, CS gets adjusted but SS can never change. And put in strict end conditions for the SS part, such as X years and/or cohabitation with a new partner. Blending it all together as $500 CS is asking for trouble over time, I think.

Your property settlement also sounds less than ideal and kind of vague. You intend to pay off the entire mortgage? Or just assume the mortgage solely? You intend to pay off all joint debt, or joint debt as of separation date? Why would you agree to pay all legal fees? That sounds like you could end up paying her legal fees! Who knows how much her lawyer has been costing you? She could really drive that up, too, if she actually accepts your offer. If you mean fees related only to property transferral, you should spell that out. And I wouldn't say no equalization payment in 12, when there is clearly a house buyout in 1. You should probably say "no FURTHER equalization."

Lastly, I don't know how well the contingency for her to remain in Peel will work. What kind of consequences could there be if she decides to move out a few months after signing the agreement? Maybe put in a line about the children must remain in Peel, and the access arrangement would change to her having EoW, should she move away.

**FB_** · 04-16-2013, 03:54 PM