Grandmothers rights

[tennyis]

Hoping to get some opinion and advice on a family problem we are having.

my wife and I have 2 children, both boys aged 7 and 5. My wife also an 11 year old from a previous partner.

Background: I grew up in a home of child neglect from my Mother and abuse from my step father. She has been addicted to drugs her entire life and charged and convicted several times. When I was about 15 I basically cut off contact with her and lived with various family members until I could support myself. At age 22 my wife and I met and had our first child together. At that point my Mom contacted me saying she had been out of prison for a while, went to rehab and was clean. She would like to make ammends and try and be apart of her grandchilds life. I was hesitant as at this point I hadnt heard from her in years but other family members spoke highly of the changes she made so I decided to go ahead with it.

Over the next 7 years we had another child and she helped a lot in particular with him. She would help with watching them, taking them to doctors appointments if my wife and I worked, etc. During this time several red flags came up and warnings from other people that she was back into drugs. She denied them, she always was a great liar and convinced me that she was clean. At one point her friend even called childrens aid saying she was concerned for the children being left in her care as she was using drugs again. I really should have known better, but I guess I just wanted to believe in my Mother and access continued.

She was then charged as part of a province wide drug raid, and charged with possession for the purpose of trafficking and attempting to possess a controlled substance. 9 counts of each I believe. Her sister bailed her out and she's currently awaiting trial. We have not and do not want to allow her to see the children any longer.

She notified me this evening via email that she has spoken with legal aid and that she's taking me to court unless I agree for her to have visiting rights with the kids. I refused and explained why.

I am reading a lot of mixed things on grandparents rights, and most of what I read does not apply to my case. She's also saying that legal aid told her none of her convictions are admissible in a child access case, is this true? They also told her it's an easy case and that she get access so we should just give in and let her see them.

I am sick to my stomach at the idea that a court would order me to allow a drug dealer continued access to my children and am really at a loss fro what to do. Do I have any kind of case here? I don't mind getting a lawyer and doing whatever it takes to win.. but if I have no case then I have no case.

[mom2three]

We have not and do not want to allow her to see the children any longer.

She notified me this evening via email that she has spoken with legal aid and that she's taking me to court unless I agree for her to have visiting rights with the kids. I refused and explained why.

I am reading a lot of mixed things on grandparents rights, and most of what I read does not apply to my case. She's also saying that legal aid told her none of her convictions are admissible in a child access case, is this true? They also told her it's an easy case and that she get access so we should just give in and let her see them.

I am sick to my stomach at the idea that a court would order me to allow a drug dealer continued access to my children and am really at a loss fro what to do. Do I have any kind of case here? I don't mind getting a lawyer and doing whatever it takes to win.. but if I have no case then I have no case.

Both you and your wife do not want her to have access. End of story.

She can bring an application; that doesn't mean she should. Especially when the two parents are the decision makers for the children, not the courts. Courts will only intervene where parents cannot decide.

Don't listen to anything she has to say. I repeat do NOT listen to her. You are an adult; you do not have to listen to what she has to say and no, don't give in to her.

Here is a case for you to check out. You can find other cases cited within it.

CanLII - 2009 ONCJ 630 (CanLII)

There is a case out there with a similar situation as your (both parents in agreement that there should be no access) but I can't seem to find it. I will though because it was an interesting read: grandparents quite involved in the children's lives for several years and parents made decision to cut them out - family squabbles - court did not grant access.

So, get a good nights sleep. You don't have anything to worry about really.

[tennyis]

thanks I looked over the case you presented. the only differences being that my mother has an established relationship with the children.

anyone know if the drug use and drug dealing is actually inadmissible? She said "i have talked to legal aid and the only criminal records admissable in child access cases are if they involve child abuse or assault."

The drug that she was on , meth stays in your system for days. Would caring for a child and transporting them in a vehicle well high on drugs not be considered abuse? Do I have a right to try and press charges against her? I really don't have any proof, I mean there is no drug test that was done while she was watching the kids. but she did have them the day before she was arrested and when she was in jail she was detoxing.

[mom2three]

Found it:

Chapman v. Chapman can be found here:

CanLII - 2001 CanLII 24015 (ON CA)

[blinkandimgone]

Did she give you a lawyer's name?

She has ZERO legal rights or custodial rights to the children so it would be very VERY unlikely that legal aid would represent her in a court fight over kids she has no rights to, established relationship or not.

Might want to even confirm she's telling the truth before getting worked up over it. Here's a link to services legal aid covers that might give some insight:

Legal Aid Ontario: Getting Legal Help

[standing on the sidelines]

you already said that she is a great liar, so why believe her about the having legal aid etc?? Until you actually get served some papers, dont worry about it.

[red6419]

you already said that she is a great liar, so why believe her about the having legal aid etc?? Until you actually get served some papers, dont worry about it.

do not take second hand legal advice from a drug addict. period.

do not take second hand legal advice from someone who wants something from you. period.

agreed that you should deal with it if you're served.

call CAS on your mother if you're concerned.

make sure the school and daycare and anyone else who should know (in writing) that she's not to have access to the children. period.

and I'd even suggest talking to counsellor or school social worker about the situation and about how to talk to the kids about it. If your mother is that unstable they should know that if she shows up they're not to go with her but in a way that's appropriate for their ages.

[involveddad75]

Anyone can make a claim for custody and or access.
This all falls under section 24 of the FLRA (Family Law Reform Act)
And yes her convictions can not technically be used against her, unless it can be shown that it effects her parenting.

However I think you have a stronger evidence than you think.

Fact 1:
That is how was she when you were a child under her care, while she was on drugs. You were abused, and neglected by your mother. This does come into play with the mertis of custody and access.
So your position is this. Grandmother is not a good role model or parent figure while on drugs (insert your story here). You left to survive at age 15. Had child. Grandmother cleaned herself up and you gave her a second chance. Grandmother went back to old habits.

Fact 2:
You are an intact family, courts genally don't get involved in intact families, unless a child is in of protection.
You and your wife are good parents, there is no open investigation with either of you. As such no child in need of protection. Therefore courts shouldn't get involved.

I have provided 2 possible arguements as a way to stop your grand mother getting access to your child if she decides to file court papers.

I have one more suggestion.
In your message you didn't say anything regarding your bio father. Have you contacted him to see if he would like to have involvement or meet his grandchild.
I know he wasn't around, but maybe he wanted to be.
Just a suggestion here, you gave grandmother a chance, how about the grandfather.
Just my two sense and maybe you already have him involved.

[tennyis]

My bio father is in mine and the childrens life and always has been. I have nto been served yet but she continues to email me saying she's going too. She's trying to work it out without going to court but i've made it very clear that I have no interest in her ever seeing them again. Her latest claim is that if I don't let her see them and she takes me to court and wins i'd have to pay all of her court fees. I really don't care about the money so i'm not to worried about htat... just want her to go away she hasn't even been sentenced yet for her charges! I just keep hoping she gets locked away for a long time haha.

[standing on the sidelines]

block her on your email or have it so her emails go to another folder instead of your inbox. She is just trying to scare you with the threat of court and costs. If all you said here is true then she has a snowballs chance in hell. Dont stress about it, if she thought she had a court case she would have filed.