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  • Motion: Summons/Disclosure

    My stbx brought a motion for support. I am on disability. We were ordered to mediation, but she claimed I did not provide financial disclosure (which I have numerous times). The judge said if I have, she will get in trouble and if I haven't, then I'll get in trouble.

    Then the judge booked us for a long motion and wrote in the endorsement that she may be required to summon my insurance company to provide viva voce evidence on motion.

    My stbx summoned my 2 insurance companies/adjusters to court and requested that they send her my complete medical file. Not just financials, but all dr reports, assessments, medication, communication... everything for the past 5 years.

    Is she allowed access to this information, even when it has nothing to do with financial information? Custody and Access has already be decided. We only have support left to deal with.

    What is the "trouble" the judge referred to? Costs?

    Can someone please explain how the motion process will work, in terms of the witnesses attending and reviewing all their reports? Are we asking them questions or is it only the judge talking to them?

  • #2
    Well, as far I understand, judges hate when people are dishonest. For one, it destroys that person's credibility in court. Secondly, it drags out the case and causes it to get more expensive. Thirdly, I would imagine it would aggravate the judge if he has ordered something and it isn't followed. It's blatant disregard, lack of cooperation and disrespect for the court process. Essentially, dishonest people are wasting money and time. Therefore, costs are a considerable consequence for those who choose to be that way. Also, if they've been awarded an interim support amount that was given to them based on dishonesty, there's a likelihood of them owing that back to you. It's an expensive game to play.

    As for your medical files...I don't know that SHE could access them herself unless she had a court order. And you mentioned that the judge said she MAY be required to summon that information. Was it in a court order that she was to do so? It sounds like that hasn't happened yet, so if she's summoned your insurance companies for confidential information without one, she likely wouldn't get it.

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    • #3
      No interim support has been ordered in over a year. I've made offers for cs but she is claiming my disability pay is 3x what it is and therefore refused my interim offer. I've provided letters from my insurance companies, pay stubs, bank statments, etc... but she still refuses to accept them. Now she is summoning everyone but asking for all info instead of just financial. Seems like a great fishing expedition to me...

      The judge only wrote in his endorsement that "she MAY need to summon my insurance adjusters to provide viva voce evidence at motion". I'm not sure what exactly that means... but there is definitely no orders or subpoenas for my medical/insurance files to be released.

      My stbx just sent everyone a Form 23: Summons to Witness with a cheque and a list of requests (my complete file, all communicaitons, etc), based on that judge's endorsement.

      Now it's my insurance company contacting me asking for an authorization to release my file to my stbx. I don't think she should have it, but I don't know what the law is on this (self rep'd) so I just sent them the authorization....

      Comment


      • #4
        I read up on 19.11 of family law rules for disclosure requests from non-parties... but everything seems to be only related to financials.

        I've also heard that the information cannot be subject to legal privilege and can be provided confidentially or "without prejudice", so that the content can only be viewed by the recipient/spouse and no one else.

        I don't have anything to hide from my files, but at the same time I don't want to volunteer my files to be used against me by a hc stbx.

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        • #5
          I'm not sure what she's trying to find in those documents. On one hand she's claiming you're not releasing full financial disclosure, but on the other hand she's accusing you of getting 3x what you should be getting by the insurance companies? How would she know this if you haven't released all your financials? Sounds like a contradiction.

          If there is no subpoena for those files to be released and you feel it's totally irrelevant to the case, I wouldn't release them. I by no means have any legal expertise, and maybe someone who does can jump in, but I do know that if someone was trying to access my personal information without my permission and without the legal authority to do so, I wouldn't allow it.

          Is she not giving any indication as to why she wants those files? If she thinks you're getting more than you're supposed to, is she trying to find an error in the documentation to prove it or something? Let her make a case for it before you do. It might help things run more smoothly in the process if you just release them and have nothing to hide or worry about, but... I wouldn't do that unless she makes a legitimate case for why she wants to see them. Or, obviously, unless a judge orders it.

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          • #6
            As part of my disclosure I provided her, I showed how much I receive for income, and how much I receive for Attendant Care and Housekeeping.

            Her claim is that these benefits should be counted as my income. She used to do these services and was paid for it. Since separating, I've had to hire others.

            I then provided further letters from my insurance and service provider to show these are for 3rd party benefits and not part of income. I provided case laws as well.

            She still believes these should be counted as income and that's why she has summoned everyone.

            As per that endorsement, simply based on that, do I have to provide the files? I don't want to get in trouble for not doing the right thing.

            Comment


            • #7
              So if I'm understanding this correctly... when you two were together, she used to provide these services to you, and she was compensated for it? Now that you're split up, and have had to hire other people to do them, she thinks it should now be considered income? So, she considered that money to be household income while you two were together, and not a benefit?

              Who paid her? The insurance companies?

              Have the amounts you receive for them increased since she left?

              I'm not clear on what she expects to gain from witness testimony that they haven't already provided information on... what are they going to say that she's looking for? That they pay you for these third-party benefits? That in no way demonstrates that monies you receive for this is income versus a benefit. Talk about wasting time... and money.

              And that still doesn't explain why she needs your medical files. As long as you have provided the letters from the insurance companies that explain what these payments are for, and stubs for them, then I don't understand why she can't accept that.

              Do you have a lawyer? If so, I'd be sending these inquiries to him. And if not, maybe it would benefit you to have a consultation and bring the documentation with you with the judge's comments for him/her to review and comment on.

              Comment


              • #8
                Vive Voca evidence is VERBAL. She should have no reason to request copies of your documentation from the companies themselves. Unless she has a motion in hand allowing her to do so, the companies would be in violation of your privacy if they were to do so.

                Comment


                • #9
                  With vive voca witness, that person may very well come with all the documents you speak with in hand to refer to. They may not.

                  If you are being truthful to the court - I would say do NOT authorize your insurance to release. I guess even if you're not being truthful.

                  Wait for it to be Ordered released, or brought to evidence via vive voce testimony.

                  If you have been stretching the truth - maybe now is a good time to come clean about it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I receive the same amount/same benefits from before as I do now... for almost 5 years now. The money has always been issued to me, the only difference is before it was for my ex and now it is for a 3rd party. My ex is ignoring everyone else and wants to claim I'm keeping the money.

                    Her biggest issue was that the majority of my benefits is to hire a cook to do all my meals; however since that is hard to find, I've had to order most of my food. I got my adjuster to write a 4th letter (discloser) saying that there was nothing wrong with that. Whether I hire or order, the point is still the same... I can't do my own meals and need to pay for it. My ex then called my adjuster and spoke to her to reconfirm this point.

                    Now my ex has summoned everyone with a Form 23: Summons to Witness, and on Page 2 requested they bring my complete file, etc. My insurance then asked me today to send an authorization to release the info to my ex. I asked my insurance if she is allowed my private file and they said since it is summoned then I have to... so I sent an authorization.

                    I have been upfront and truthful about everything, with multiple letters from insurance, service provider, complete bank statements, etc... There is definitely no court order for this info to be released.

                    Should I call back my adjuster tomorrow and say that I don't authorize my file to be given to my ex? That they can bring it to court if need be for their own verbal references(vive voce), but not to give it out unless ordered to.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It might be too late if you already authorized it. All it's probably going to do is give her something to nitpick over, which you don't want because it drags things out. I wouldn't have released that information for that reason alone. Why give her hundreds of pages to pick at when she's clearly looking to find ANY little detail to fight about?

                      But, just in case they haven't sent it to her yet, you can call them back and give it a try. Even if they do release it to her and you've got nothing to hide, she'll look stupid in court trying to fight it when, as you stated, the insurance company has given you four letters to confirm everything you've said. They're the ones paying for these expenses, so I would think they have a grip on what they're paying for.

                      Ridiculous.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "BRING the complete file"

                        Not hand it over to her. Bring the file so they come prepared with all relevant documentation. She doesn't get to see it since it contains private medical info/etc.

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                        • #13
                          If you've already provided sufficient/required disclosure to address her concerns, then i would need authorize any further release of information.

                          Do a search on "fishing expedition" and "disclosure" on Canlii. I've read quite a few cases where a litigant is asking for unreasonable amount of disclosure and the judges see right through them and does not grant the order to produce.

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                          • #14
                            On the other hand, if you are enjoying 3-star dining 7 nights a week, your ex might have a very valid point.

                            This is an interesting case, fishing expedition or not.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              On the other hand, if you are enjoying 3-star dining 7 nights a week, your ex might have a very valid point.

                              This is an interesting case, fishing expedition or not.
                              The costs associated with hiring a private cook/meal preparer could be equal if not more than eating out every day. As long as the funds dedicated to the meals are being spent on meals, it shouldn't matter if its a private cook or a restaurant cook who prepares the meal.

                              Comment

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