Tips for dealing with OCL and Private Assessors

[mnadarasah]

In my case I went to the court. Judge asked us to fillout the intake form and he asked the OCL to investigate. I had the kids for full sole custody then OCL involved and gave me the report that my x-wife have the sole custodyand no way for the shared custody. After 20min that gave me the consent to sign that they are going to give me JOINT Custody and it will review after one year?
I am afraid what is going to happen to me?

Help Me.

[involveddad75]

Private message me.

[Janus]

The only reason why I am afraid to try and increase access is because she has a lawyer and if my motion is denied I will have to pay her lawyer.

Child support will hurt you (and your children's relationship with you) far more than any costs award, you only pay the full costs if you have been really really naughty. You might even win, then she has to pay you.

The savings are all in her personal bank accounts, she forced me out of the home by calling the Police on me repeatedly. The Officer said to me to do myself a favour and find another place to live so i did.

Don't take legal advice from the police.

She has all the savings and she told me she is using them to pay her legal.

Try to get her to say that in writing. If those savings are truly fraudulently withheld from you, then you are not necessarily going to lose this case.

i have nothing to pay for legal so If I am going to bring a motion it has to be a very good chance that I will win.

If you truly have nothing, apply for legal aid, or self rep. Despite the oft quoted case on this site, legal aid pretty much does give you wings unless you really really jerk around the court system.

Frankly, for parents with shared custody where both parents are gainfully employed, it is very difficult to make it cost-effective to go to court. However, for those parents who do not have custody and are paying table support, I think it makes financial sense to fight every year for custody until the ex has successfully alienated the kids from you.

Oh, and if you have somehow been convinced that you are not a good parent, get over it. Being a parent is very easy. Many uneducated, lower quartile intelligence humans with functional reproductive organs become parents every day. If they can do it, so can you. That crap about how a parent is the hardest job in the world is some of the worst propaganda ever made. It is easy and rewarding... trust me, you want it.

I'm not sure why you are so convinced you are going to lose.

[dman24man]

i dont think i am going to lose in the long run. I think i will win because she has withheld access and there is proof, the ocl found a police report where she admits she has withheld access plus she wrote a letter to the school saying she has sole custody and i am to have no access. i just dont know if i will win a motion asking for a change to the temp access order pending trial. oh and i have her on tape threatening me with legal and i said how will you pay and she said i have money put away. i gave her all the money in the marriage and she paid bills and saved for our family i cant get legal aid because i own the house she is living in with our child. she is asking for sole possession of the house. i told her i will give it to her if she signs that she wont move our child out of the house for 5 years and if she does i want my half. she refused and just wants it anyway. she is asking for the court to give it to her.l

[Janus]

oh and i have her on tape threatening me with legal and i said how will you pay and she said i have money put away.

I don't fully understand why you are so worried about losing in court.

she is asking for sole possession of the house. i told her i will give it to her if she signs that she wont move our child out of the house for 5 years and if she does i want my half. she refused and just wants it anyway. she is asking for the court to give it to her.l

If she did sign that paper, it would not have any effect whatsoever. She could sign the paper and then move out with impunity 2 months later. Hell, she could move out 10 seconds after getting the house.

Perhaps you meant "exclusive possession"? That would be when she lives in the house, but you still own it. The way you wrote the above it sounded like you were considering an unequal division of marital assets (namely, giving her the house). If she is asking for exclusive possession, she will probably have to accuse you of domestic violence first.

Either way, I would just get the house sold on the market now. Send a registered letter saying that you want to list the house, or you want to be bought out within X days. You get the cash you need to fight your legal battle, and don't have to worry about costs.

I think you need to get to court, and you need representation while in court. I don't think you understand the laws well enough to adequately defend yourself.

[Harold Callahan]

Hostile OCL agent (lawyer)

Hi all, quick question and let me know if I should post elsewhere..

went to firts settlement conference and felt like I was getting railroaded by the OCL agent and found her to be quite hostile. She only read off her notes from the one disclosure meeting, had another meeting with my son after that disclosure meeting which I was not aware of? (standard?)

anyhow - can my son ask for a new agent if this one is not helpful?

thx

H

[Harold Callahan]

Hi all, quick question and let me know if I should post elsewhere..

went to firts settlement conference and felt like I was getting railroaded by the OCL agent and found her to be quite hostile. She only read off her notes from the one disclosure meeting, had another meeting with my son after that disclosure meeting which I was not aware of? (standard?)

anyhow - can my son ask for a new agent if this one is not helpful?

thx

H

I should also add that my son told the OCL agent that his mother threatened to leave him here and move back to her home country if he told the lawyer he wanted 50/50 access. My son has not asked for 50/50 access and as a result the OCL agent has recommeded against it. My son and I have been enjoying this 50/50 arrangment for over a year now. How do get the OCL lawyer to take this seriously..

[FrustratedPartner]

Hi: we had OCL in for their observance of our family recently. She interviewed me and my partner for 1 hour each. There is soooooo much I forgot to mention during the interview but all of it is in the court documents she was given.

My question is this: do the OCL investigators do a thorough reading of the court documents? When we were interviewing I made reference to them and she said she hadn't reviewed them yet, which came as a surprise.

Also, is it worthwhile to call her up and let her know something really important we forgot to mention in the interview?

Thanks!

[baldclub]

My question is this: do the OCL investigators do a thorough reading of the court documents? When we were interviewing I made reference to them and she said she hadn't reviewed them yet, which came as a surprise.

Hi!

Don't expect the OCL to be knowledgeable of your case or to take it upon themselves to try to see your point of view. Firstly, they are most likely swamped and involved in other cases. Second, they are supposed to represent the children's voice and they don't really care about you in some fundamental ways.

As is the case I think mostly in life, you're your own best supporter so if you think something is important, let the OCL know.

Also, is it worthwhile to call her up and let her know something really important we forgot to mention in the interview?

In my case there were some very, very objectionable accusations brought to the OCL's attention and I emailed them to say that my perspective was available and forthright if they so needed, but honestly I don't think they cared or that it mattered as my feedback was not sought.

Depends though maybe on what you forgot?

On a side note, being the new partner of someone going through family disputes is tough, but can make you a stronger couple. I wish you all the best.

[involveddad75]

Hi: we had OCL in for their observance of our family recently. She interviewed me and my partner for 1 hour each. There is soooooo much I forgot to mention during the interview but all of it is in the court documents she was given.

My question is this: do the OCL investigators do a thorough reading of the court documents? When we were interviewing I made reference to them and she said she hadn't reviewed them yet, which came as a surprise.

Also, is it worthwhile to call her up and let her know something really important we forgot to mention in the interview?

Thanks!

Assessors are only given roughly 20 hours to conduct a family assessment.
It's no through, it doesn't look under the skin.
Generally from the reports I have from the people on here who have shared privately and those I have helped. The report is simply a restatement of what the parents say about each other.
Slanted in one direction or the other.
In my case a 50/50 fully involved father, being recommended to have 38% and sole custody to mom.
Mom's accusations written as if they were true, and my concerns dismissed.
Mom's negative behaviour understood and in someways accepted and justified all biased on lies.
My positive behaviour understated. My questioning of procedure and process interpreted as controlling.
My "requests" for information, turned into "demands" and threats of court action.
At the end of the day the judge didn't even mention the OCL recommendations in the reasons for his judgement. Thats how little weight he gave to them.
I will say one thing, the only semi neural part of the recommendations were the observations. She didn't have a problem with my parenting.
That said she still sided with mom.
And actually condoned mom withholding the children.

[baldclub]

^^^^ Pretty much my situation too, but the OCL didn't condone her denying access. However, proposing a 38% custody situation was a terrible, terrible injustice to the children.

[involveddad75]

I totally agree, their is only one reason to recommend 38% access situation and it is simply a financial one. Keeping parents below the 40% threshold is child abuse. As it doesn't listen to the BIOC and provides no support for the children when they are with the 38% parent.
Are there others that this has happened too?

[Tayken]

Assessors are only given roughly 20 hours to conduct a family assessment.

Private assessors are similar in that they only really spend about 15-25 hours with the parents and more often than not less time with the most important people in any custody and access "assessment" - THE CHILDREN.

A 45 minute in-home assessment by OCL / Section 30 can turn into effectively 20 pages of nonsense. How in 45 minutes can someone determine the parent-child/ren dyad?

Also, what impact does the court matters have on the family that is under "investigation"? I always find it interesting that the expectations of these assessments that the parents will be without stress which would have a reciprocal impact on the subjects being studied. I have not seen one assessment properly address the question that Justices ask quite often in case law:

What impact does this whole court proceeding have on the two parents in dispute? Is what we are seeing here in the assessment really two people thrown into an unnatural adversarial system (court) "fighting it out in court" really these people or what the "system" has created of them? How much of the nonsense is driven by the anxiety that naturally comes with any custody and access dispute?

It's not through, it doesn't look under the skin.

In fact, most of them focus on completely irrelivant materials and create piles upon piles of additional irrelivant material. I have heard a number of justices tell both clients in a matter that no judge will sift through a 200+ page custody and access report.

I have pulled 30 files for which a private assessment was done. Of the 20 assessments all were over 150 pages. Of the 150 pages, only a fraction of the content was referenced by the justice in making the final order. In fact, for most situations only 5-10% of the assessors recommendations were considered or implemented in any contested access dispute I have seen.

You will hear from these "assessors" quite often the most egocentric statements such as (for example):

"I have done about 200 of these assessments and the judge always goes with my recommendations."

In my observation, statistically (based on my 30 case viewpoint) the vast majority of justices don't implement the vast majority of the recommendations from assessors. They almost always change them significantly... So much that it makes me wonder why people don't always just challenge the position of these "experts".

Generally from the reports I have from the people on here who have shared privately and those I have helped. The report is simply a restatement of what the parents say about each other.

I can confirm the same on my review of case files I pull. Generally, the assessor wastes a significant amount of time re-stating what has often been alleged in an affidavit. What is more shocking really is that they try to assess the "truthfulness" of the two parties which is well beyond their mandate to assist the JUSTICE whom is the only person whom can try a fact as a fact.

As soon as an assessor makes an assessment or statement that they believe one party over the other they are identifying their bias. I have not seen a single report from OCL/Section 30 that isn't biased against one (or both) of the parents in some way.

Slanted in one direction or the other.

I have seen the same thing too.

In my case a 50/50 fully involved father, being recommended to have 38% and sole custody to mom.

Truisms explode out of this statement... It is unfortunate but, you challenged the report and like I have seen time-and-time again, if someone challenges the report the justice will order totally opposite to the recommendations of the OCL/Section 30.

Mom's accusations written as if they were true, and my concerns dismissed.

Assessments often provide little value to the court in my opinion.

Mom's negative behaviour understood and in someways accepted and justified all biased on lies.

"She didn't know what else to do in the situation..."

Despite having legal counsel, etc... Emotional reasoners can easily manipulate "feelings motivated" custody and access evaluators. But, remember, justices are based on FACTS not FEELINGS. If someone is well versed in logic (similar to WorkingDad) the "FEELINGS", "BELIEFS" and "NONSENSE" can easily be cross examined with devastating impacts.

My positive behaviour understated. My questioning of procedure and process interpreted as controlling.

I always warn everyone about the "controlling" ontology in family law situation. What defines "control"? I prefer how Justice Pazaratz approached the issues of "control" in that very famously cited case law on this site...

My "requests" for information, turned into "demands" and threats of court action.

Which falls under the nonsense catagory of "control". But, if the other parent threatens court action, access restrictions... It isn't "control" but, their inability to "know what else to do"... It is a common pattern... easily defeated on the trying of actual evidence and not "feelings".

At the end of the day the judge didn't even mention the OCL recommendations in the reasons for his judgement. Thats how little weight he gave to them.

More people need to realize that they are "recommendations" and that the court is ultimately whom decides. Don't fall for the controlling fear tactics of OCL / Section 30 who will tell you that the courts "always go with their recommendations". Those people are generally egocentric nutjobs who don't want their record tarnished or are scared to take the stand.

I will say one thing, the only semi neural part of the recommendations were the observations. She didn't have a problem with my parenting.

That said she still sided with mom.

And actually condoned mom withholding the children.

But, still rewarded her conduct with a recommendation of 38% access against you. That kind of nonsense needs to stop in the OCL. The obstruction of access to children by a parent holds significant weight by a justice. I have no idea why these "experts" don't realize this. I hypothesize it is because the vast majority of them don't read current case law... They are way behind the times in what the court orders so their recommendations are generally 10-15 years behind the time.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Tayken]

I totally agree, their is only one reason to recommend 38% access situation and it is simply a financial one. Keeping parents below the 40% threshold is child abuse. As it doesn't listen to the BIOC and provides no support for the children when they are with the 38% parent.
Are there others that this has happened too?

There are many... The problem is that most people fall victim to the egocentric statements from OCL / Section 30 assessors who try to tell people (or instruct directly) that the judge *always* goes with their recommendations.

99% of OCL/Section 30 assessments are not necessary in my opinion.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[baldclub]

99% of OCL/Section 30 assessments are not necessary in my opinion.

Good Luck!
Tayken

I agree with this Tayken. The assessment was totally unnecessary in my case, considering the fact that I spent years at home with my children before the break up. It was easy for anyone to read/see/hear that all I requested was to be an equal parent.

The only thing that I thought the OCL was going to do was make someone listen to our case, to force the mother (in my case) to actually deal with someone who would be listening to the children. In many ways I was wrong.

However, in hindsight, I am very unsure a judge would have done any better although the time frame for a decision probably would have been narrowed.