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  • Trimming Bird Wings in Hamilton

    Just found by accident ...

    At a costs hearing, following a 17day custody trial, a self represented litigant submitted that “Legal aid gives you Wings”. What the litigant was suggesting was that a legally aided party can do whatever she wants in court without worrying about her fees or the costs to the opposing party. In the costs hearing, Justice Pazaratz was faced with determining whether or not to clip the wings of the legally aided party when determining the proper award.
    Trimming Bird Wings in Hamilton


    WD

  • #2
    It seems kind of funny that your costs result is spreading more widely than your custody result or overturning of status quo or rebuttal of the OCL report.

    But yay!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rioe View Post
      It seems kind of funny that your costs result is spreading more widely than your custody result or overturning of status quo or rebuttal of the OCL report.

      But yay!
      Yea that is kind of funny ... Probably easier to write about...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by WorkingDAD View Post
        Yea that is kind of funny ... Probably easier to write about...
        It is easier to write about and a systemic issue within the system that can be addressed as a whole. It would be nice if the people who wrote the article linked actually invested some time in using their time to address those systemic problems. It would bring much needed change to a system which funds unnecessary litigation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          It seems kind of funny that your costs result is spreading more widely than your custody result or overturning of status quo or rebuttal of the OCL report.

          But yay!
          I am waiting to see when Carswell picks up the case law. They may have and I might of missed the review on it when it got published. It really should be a part of the law review reports.

          Comment


          • #6
            Love it. Did you make any progress on collecting the costs order? I heard you were to be returning to court?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
              Love it. Did you make any progress on collecting the costs order? I heard you were to be returning to court?
              If you can call opposing bankruptcy discharge a progress than yes. and yes we are back to court heading to another trial...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by WorkingDAD View Post
                If you can call opposing bankruptcy discharge a progress than yes. and yes we are back to court heading to another trial...

                Oh no, back to court? What's in dispute this time??

                Comment


                • #9
                  lol - nice article!

                  I know some may be curious that the focus is on costs vs the status quo issue. I am satisfied just by the fact that it is circulating and getting exposure. Any exposure will help in the end for all issues cited.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                    lol - nice article!

                    I know some may be curious that the focus is on costs vs the status quo issue. I am satisfied just by the fact that it is circulating and getting exposure. Any exposure will help in the end for all issues cited.
                    And this is the purpose of case law. Lawyers are reading it and re-flexing back the other order posted to CanLII to get the full perspective. What tends to catch a lawyer's eye, which is unfortunate, is "costs awards".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Exquizique View Post
                      Oh no, back to court? What's in dispute this time??
                      to get whole picture that would be best to read 40 paragraphs of Justice Pazaratz endorsement from may 23, 2012 which for some reason does not published yet . But in short it's look like that.

                      1. Caught mom selling staff on kijiji with "must sale leaving country soon".

                      2. contacted mom as possible purchaser. Mom confirmed her address and leaving country with a child intention.

                      3. Emergency ex-parte motion - child with me, border notified, police clause - in court in two days.

                      4. back to court - mom started lying again ad I was ready for that.

                      5. Ordered supervised access to mom pending further order

                      6. Mom get a lawyer. Long motion re: access. Mom lost - supervised access every sun for 2 hours in supervised centre pending disclosure from kijiji, google and our family wizard. Questioning (discovery) ordered (on consent) to take place in June, 2012.

                      7. lawyer quit (or fired)

                      8. mom filled another motion re: same as before. Dismissed with cost reserved. I do not have to reply to any materials filed by mom unless court ask me to.

                      9. Mom failled to do questionning for 2 times and refuse to do 3rd attempt.

                      10. Received disclosure (kijiji - confirmed mom's IP and email for account,
                      google - nothing, our family wizard - 500 pages of logs which prove same ip as kijiji and put mom behind computer on specific times what mom claim she was not home)

                      10. will come back to court in September for moms pleading to be struct due to not compliance with discovery order.

                      PS:
                      Mom keep calling CAS, Police accusing of child being abused due to bruises (child in daycare full time - 3.5 year old). So far have 2 police reports and at least 2 (what I aware of) CAS calls.

                      One would wonder how that will end...

                      WD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                        It is easier to write about and a systemic issue within the system that can be addressed as a whole. It would be nice if the people who wrote the article linked actually invested some time in using their time to address those systemic problems. It would bring much needed change to a system which funds unnecessary litigation.
                        The article was in a legal newsletter, and the most striking, newsworthy thing that will certainly affect numerouse court cases is the issue of costs.

                        Costs are an issue in every court case. How many cases involve the OCL? So in comparison, how many cases and how many people's lives will be affected by the costs issue, compared to a successful OCL challenge?

                        This is not to say that the OCL issue or any other issue in Workingdad's case is trivial. But for lawyers the cost issue runs deep. It certainly, as the authors point out, affects the type of advice you would give to a client who is facing a self-represented party.

                        Based on past experience, the legal aid lawyer in Workingdad's case would have little to say to his ex. The lawyer couldn't have said, "Hey, you are setting yourself up to pay $10k in costs" because there was no precedent for that. This changes stuff.

                        In a legal newsletter, this is a "Man bites dog" type of story. I totally understand why they would write about this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sent the link to my lawyer who emailed me back and said it was a very interesting article that he will probably use it in the future.... most interesting to those who are self-represented.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by WorkingDAD View Post
                            to get whole picture that would be best to read 40 paragraphs of Justice Pazaratz endorsement from may 23, 2012 which for some reason does not published yet . But in short it's look like that. [...]
                            Workingdad, my heart really goes out to you ... good grief!!! Will it never end ... the poor kid caught in the middle of this

                            Makes me wonder how your ex is continually able to get lawyer after lawyer to represent her on such ridiculous matters. Also makes me wonder if it's a valid request to ask the court to have her undergo some sort of psychiatric evaluation ...

                            I wish you all the best, and am/will be following your case closely ... you're an inspiration!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Do you get to have the same judge, at least? Or does a new one have to get caught up and is there a chance they would be more lenient with your ex?

                              Comment

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