CP moving, who does transportation?

[LauraR]

Hi,
I have a question I'm hoping somebody could help me with. My husband and I have been married for 5 years. My husband has been divorced for 7 years. His ex-wife lived in one city (Hamilton), he moved 5.5 years ago to Burlington to my house. His agreement has him doing the pick up on Friday nights at 6:00 pm and the returning of the kids on Sunday 6:00 pm. This was put in the agreement because when they split up she didn't have a vehicle. She got one about a month later. He was living about 6 or 7 minutes away. He thought it was the fair thing to do. Now, his ex-wife has just moved to Niagara Falls to be near her boyfriend (who isn't keen on the kids by the way). She has been "generous" enough to say she would be fair and do half the drive each time. Is this the correct way? Is there a correct way? Can he drive the same mileage as the Hamilton drive was and tell her to do the rest? Should she be coming to our house to pick them up? I have tried to explain to my husband that the drive now should be up to her. He still wants to be fair. If she had ever been fair, ever offered to do any of the driving over the last 6 years, ever gave him any thought, then this would be all very nice. But, since its all been very one sided, I think fairness and her calling all the shots should end finally. Since she was the aggressive one in the marriage and he is the non-confrontational type, it is hard for him to tell her how it should be. Is there anything set in stone for this kind of situation? Should she have put anything through the courts about the move, or is that just when there is a problem about her actually moving? He doesn't care where she is as long as it doesn't interfere with his access.
Anyone know anything about if she must submit something about a move to the courts, or what the transportation issues should be, I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Laura

[singledad99]

Half way seems fair and reasonable. Another way to do this is that dad picks up the child at the beginning of access and mom at the end of it.

[LauraR]

Yes, maybe it does. We are way past always the being the fair and reasonable ones and its just so irritating that she can dictate everything. I just would think that since she packed up and moved strictly to be near her boyfriend, and never did any driving (which would have been fair and reasonable as well), it should be her turn to do it, or at the very least, her moving shouldn't be costing us time and money by now going further, half way is further. I could see if he drove the same kilometers and met her there. She never had any problems running to The Falls to visit the man whenever she felt like it, picking up her kids should at least be in the same league. Also, he works in the Stoney Creek area, so halfway on Fridays hardly takes her out of her way at all, he still has to travel all the way back.

[Exquizique]

You mentioned an agreement. Is it a separation agreement? Is it filed with court?

Are there any sections in the agreement that addresses what happens if one or both parents move and changes the child's habitual residence?

[WorkingDAD]

The best way is parent who take children into his care provide transportation. In addition to that it's 50/50 share of transportation cost it also limit control other party would wanted (at times) to take over delivering the kids for access or not.

General view that parent who moved should be responsible for increased transportation cost. But it not like black and white (as all in family law) and without seeing both side's argument it hard to predict anything how it may turn out.

Problem what I see here that your husband allow his ex to get what she want and that what she used too... It also seems like she already moved and as appear your husband did not do anything about that what may look like he agreed...

Try to find compromise what is best for kids and than others...

WD

[LauraR]

Hi, yes it is a seperation agreement, drawn up in approx. 2005 when they separated. We had it amended 3 years ago when my husband was suddenly out of work. It took her 2 years to sign this new amendment. We talked to our lawyer at that time about traveling arrangements and he advised us to wait until another time. The amendment basically put the child support payments down, but kept her spousal support going, even tho this took all his EI paycheck.

[LauraR]

Yes workingdad, she moved July 1 after humming and hawing for a bit and us thinking she probably wouldn't move the kids away from their friends, family and school for a guy that isn't overly interested in the kids. They are 11 and almost 13. And yes, he gives into her and that is exactly what she is used to. Causes us trouble of course because I don't see the driving as a child issue as custody, medical, educational or well being of the kids. Its currently to me that my husband is doing a long term favour for another woman that treats him badly and always has her hand out. I know, none of those are legal arguments, lol. My ex-husband hasn't been able to pay me child support since after the first year of our separation, 10 years ago. Guess what? He can't afford it, he has a low paying job and taking him to court won't make him be able to afford it. So why can't everyone just play nice? If I thought he for one minute just wasn't paying it, then I'd be on him right quick.

[LauraR]

No, the agreement doesn't address moving at all by either parent.

[Exquizique]

If there were no limitations or constraints placed on her moving/moving the children, then (unfortunately) she is not bound or obligated to seek his input or consent with regards to her moving.

WorkingDad is right. Your husband's ex has gotten use to being able to do what she wants or being able to EXPECT to be able to do what she wants.

At this point in time, if compromise can be reached and new arrangements on the pickup and dropoff of the kids can be spelled out in another amendment by mutual consent, that would be the least expensive and "low conflict" way of proceeding.

You can also try to get provisions for addressing future moves etc. included in this new amendment. If your husband's ex isn't amenable to it, then you'll have to go to court to get the agreement amended. If your husband is content with the situation as is, then he can let things be and work around the changes (and any future changes) as best as he can. However, keep in mind that situations like this may arise again in the future and may be harder to address without clearly defined expecations and obligations, especially if at any point down the road your husband is no longer content to let the ex simply do what she wishes.

[WorkingDAD]

Yes workingdad, she moved July 1 after humming and hawing for a bit and us thinking she probably wouldn't move the kids away from their friends, family and school for a guy that isn't overly interested in the kids. They are 11 and almost 13. And yes, he gives into her and that is exactly what she is used to. Causes us trouble of course because I don't see the driving as a child issue as custody, medical, educational or well being of the kids. Its currently to me that my husband is doing a long term favour for another woman that treats him badly and always has her hand out. I know, none of those are legal arguments, lol. My ex-husband hasn't been able to pay me child support since after the first year of our separation, 10 years ago. Guess what? He can't afford it, he has a low paying job and taking him to court won't make him be able to afford it. So why can't everyone just play nice? If I thought he for one minute just wasn't paying it, then I'd be on him right quick.

such move is not in the best interest of the child (unless we do not know about something). Problem is if you will not act fast and they will go to school there you probably stack with it to next summer when it will be much harder to change as it will be not in best interest of children to destruct them again...

did your husband clearly stated to her (in writing) that he does not agree to that and that it's not in the best interest of children?

Its currently to me that my husband is doing a long term favour for another woman that treats him badly and always has her hand out. I know, none of those are legal arguments, lol.

it very may be that he just try to protect kids from conflict. It does not mean I agree with his approach - just another angle for view to look from.

WD

here is some readings
http://www.complexfamilylaw.com/Arti...y-Rights.shtml

[LauraR]

Its not that he is overly opposed to the move, its still within distance for weekend access, he doesn't agree with it, but he won't confront her as she runs him down and gets loud. He is just annoyed that he has to do things as she says and that it increases his driving time etc. He did not put anything in writing about her wanting to move, neither did she. The kids mentioned it a few times to us, then she finally casually mentioned she might move late August, then whamo, she had a place for July 1. Another thing to mention or another question maybe, she had a son from a previous encounter who was around 4 when she met my husband. The son's father was not in the picture so my husband has always been "dad" to him . So, even tho technically he is a step-son to him, (I also consider him to be my husbands son the same as his 2 other kids.) he was paying child support for all three kids. Since the mother has moved out of the area, the oldest son who goes to college had to find an apartment since The Falls is too far for him to commute. Who contacts the FRO to let them know that the child no longer lives with the mother? Gosh, I am feeling like such a bitter whiner.

[Exquizique]

Since the mother has moved out of the area, the oldest son who goes to college had to find an apartment since The Falls is too far for him to commute. Who contacts the FRO to let them know that the child no longer lives with the mother?

If the son is still in college pursuing full-time studies, your husband will still need to continue paying child support for him. Regardless, there's no real point in informing FRO about any changes that would affect child support. They act according to court orders and cannot vary their collection without a changed court order. If there are any changes that would affect the amount of child support to be paid, your husband will need to go to court to get an order to vary it, if he cannot get it via consent from his ex. Once you have a changed order either by court or consent, THEN you provide that to FRO.

[sassie77]

We have been dealing with this issue for years concerning transportation, we also have nothing in our Court Order stating who does what as my husband has been doing the driving for years. We are in Stoney Creek and her in Caledonia 45km 1 way or 40min drive 1 way. We are requesting 50/50 currently. She refuses. With that said she is typically suppose to provide 60 or 90 days depending on what your Order states of any move. Giving you the opportunity to work out these details tranportation access etc..If she is willing to drive 1 way, I would take it and run with it, as she could be difficult and enforce the agreement and what is written in it. However, to protect yourselves, I would do up an amendement with the move clause and the tranportation arrangement being very detailed. Suggesting...

Both parties will be responsible for 50/50 transportation
Bob will pick up at the beginning of all his access time and Sue will pick up at the end of all access time.

Also both parties will provide the opposing party 90 days written notice upon making any moves, because she already lives in Niagara Falls I would place a clause suggesting that Sue will not move from Niagara Falls unless the move is closer to Bob but no further then 20km's from Bob's current residence.

[LauraR]

Thank you all so much. that is excellent advise sassie, however, last time we did an amendment, it cost us so much money having to go back to the lawyer when deadline after deadline went unanswered. She finally did, but again, her calling the shots that ended up costing us. Still, maybe we need to look at a few things, like future moves as you said and make a few amendments.

[sassie77]

Hi Laura,

I'm sure signing an amended agreement will be the least of her worries as she did move away without providing notice, and she may be in fear of you having her forced to move back...Wink Wink...Do the Consent Motion to Change Paper work yourself (have a paper trail when you send it by email)scan etc...Provide her with a Amended Minutes of Settlement and allow her 30 days...You cando the paperwork on your own until case conference at which time i recommend a lawyer. Once you file in court she knows you mean business, you will have completed on your own and it not cost you anything.