One day only of celebrating

[karmaseeker]

We got a signed agreement on wed after being in the court house from 9am to 6pm in settlement conference. In and out of the judges court 4 times and that many hours of back and forth. We thought - it is over finally over.

1 day of peace. Then she stated she wanted us to outline what our access was going to be for the rest of the year as EOW / 1 night a week dinner / & liberal hols access has never been granted before.

She is now refusing our Christmas access (yes we are dealing with xmas now in April.)

The Agreement states ""The parties will EQUALLY share the christmas school break....." and then goes on to state in complicated "unless otherwise agreed, in writing the children will reside with us on the first half of the break and her for the second half. the first half will start the day school ends and the second half to start on the 24th. If the last day of school is the 23rd the children will spend 2 extra days between dec 26th and when they return to school. New years and new years day will not be considered these two extra days. If the parties can not agree they will use the dispute resolution section outlined below."

Now she is refusing Equal access at xmas as 24th falls early so she reads the above as tough luck if your half is less than half. (not sure what her definition of equal or half is) and further she is refusing to use the dispute resolution outline which is to use mediation. We couldn't get her to agree to arbitration only mediation and now she is already refusing it.


So she is saying see you in court. We have told her she is in contempt of orders that she signed. and it is doubtful in my opinion that a judge is going to be too keen on a woman already refusing EQUAL sharing of XMAS access even though she a/ signed it b/was ordered by a judge c/ was recommended by an accessor and is d/ most common generally in family law. Further, she is failing to utilize the conflict resolution system she agreed to and now is going to waste more court time on such stupidity.

Opinions? comments?

Do we bring a contempt motion?




So sick of this sh*t.

[Rioe]

"The parties will EQUALLY share the christmas school break....." and then goes on to state in complicated "unless otherwise agreed, in writing the children will reside with us on the first half of the break and her for the second half. the first half will start the day school ends and the second half to start on the 24th. If the last day of school is the 23rd the children will spend 2 extra days between dec 26th and when they return to school. New years and new years day will not be considered these two extra days. If the parties can not agree they will use the dispute resolution section outlined below."

That's a very confusing and ambiguous paragraph. It's too bad it's so hard to plan ahead for all eventualities. But let's take it in order of sentences.

First sentence of the clarification says you guys get the first half of the two weeks off, she gets the second half. So for this year, I see that the last day of school is likely the 21st. So you guys get 21 through 29 and she gets 30 through 6, and the kids are back to school on the 7. Relatively equal, though it looks like you'll always end up with Christmas Day and she'll always get New Year's, instead of alternating. Not the fairest, but not too hard to introduce alternating who goes first.

But wait! Sentence two says the second half starts on the 24. So now you only have 21 through 24 (four days) and she gets 25 through 6 (lots more than four days). Now she gets Christmas Day and New Year's, all the time. Much less fair than the first version, and hardly equally sharing the break.

Third sentence doesn't apply this year.

So going strictly by the text of the agreement, you get four days this year, none of them the important days, and the ex is right. However, it hardly goes with the spirit of equal access, indicated by the very first sentence. I think you would both have a case in court, and it might be worth it to get this clarified.

But of course, you want to make reasonable offers first. How about suggesting that, as the intent was to make for equal access, going by splitting the weeks, and alternating who goes first? Give her first pick this year to encourage her to agree. If she won't, maybe you could suggest adding two more days from January to your access, as though school had ended on the 23rd.

If she still balks, then suggest mediation to help you interpret the judge's order. If she refuses, then yes, you are back in court, and hopefully the whole paragraph can be re-written to reflect equal access better. And you have a good case to get costs, because of the reasonable offers, and because of her refusal to use the dispute resolution.

I don't know where the judge/lawyers got that wording. It certainly doesn't clarify equal access very well.

[May_May]

Would it help at all to actually sit down and create a day by day calendar for the next 10-20 years and spelling out the dates/times when you switch/take custody, do the drop offs, and have the kids ?
I have done that and it is with the lawyer as part of our offer. I'm hoping that this way, there is no room for error/mis-interpretation as it is very clearly spelled out.
I have an excel s/s if you want a copy to take a look at how I've done it.

[karmaseeker]

we have offered a few extra days in jan for us to even out the split as xmas falls early.

we have offered mediation on the subject.

Both refused.

Back to court again. It is all so stupid.

[dinkyface]

If you can make the opportunity, for xmas, I'd suggest changing/clarifying the order as follows.

Rule 1) The Xmas period will be defined and split as follows: From pickup on the last day of school, change-over Sunday 10am (9 days later) to drop off on the first day of school.

Rule 2) If the change-over falls on Jan 1, then it will be moved 24h to the previous day to ensure that each year, each parent has either xmas eve+day or new years eve+day, alternating between them yearly. No makeup is required in case of such a shift.

Rule 3) Mother will get first half in even years, and last half in odd years, starting in 2012.

The above works particularly well if parents are visiting family in another city for xmas (in which case, splitting @ the 24th or 25th would suck)

Other things to clarify in your order:
- If you have 7-day vacation allotments, then indicate if the 7 days must include the usual access weekend (in which case, only 5 days are gained) or if the 7 days can be appended to an access weekend (in which case, one parent gets 3 weekends in a row). Both are equitable.
- If you alternate March Break, indicate if both adjoining weekends are included, or if the usual weekend alternation continues. Both are equitable, but I prefer the first option, since it allows for travel on charter flights e.g. depart Sat am, return Sat pm a week later).

[SingingDad]

I don't like how the paragraph for Christmas is worded. I'm working on a proposal to send to my wife's lawyer. Since there has been some disagreements ever the splitting of the holidays, and some last minute scrambles to get things decided, I am being very specific on how to decide the schedule, while being as reasonable as possible (a similar approach may be beneficial to you as well). I have similar sections for Summer Vacation, March break, other holidays, and PD Days. Just polishing everything up now so I can get it to my lawyer Tuesday.

I apologize for the slightly awkward formatting, I couldn't find a better way to post the information.

FTR she is the applicant I am the respondent.

a.	Christmas, New Year’s and Winter break shall be shared.

i.	The Respondent will have the children from 3:00 pm Christmas Eve
(December 24th) until 3:00 pm Christmas Day (December 25th) on odd
numbered years. The Applicant will have the children for the same period of 
time on even numbered years.
ii.	The Applicant will have the children from 3:00 pm Christmas Day until 
3:00 pm Boxing Day (December 26th) on odd numbered years. The 
Respondent will have the children for the same period of time on even 
numbered years.
iii.	The Respondent will have the children from 3:00 pm New Year’s Eve 
(December 31st) until 8:00 pm New Year’s Day (January 1st) on even 
numbered years. The Applicant will have the children for the same period of 
time on odd numbered years.
iv.	Winter break, being from 3:00 pm Friday of the last school day of 
calendar year through the Sunday before the first school day back after New 
Year’s, will be split evenly between the parents so that each parent has the 
children for 8 of the 16 nights in this period of time, including the nights 
defined in subsections i, ii and iii above. The Regular Parenting schedule need 
not be followed during this period.
v.	The Applicant will choose the days, other than those defined above, 
she wants in odd numbered years, and the Respondent will choose in even 
numbered years.
vi.	If there are specific dates related to family events during the Winter 
break that either parent wishes the children to attend, those dates shall be 
exchanged no later than December 1st of each year.  Assuming there is no 
direct conflict with events relating to the parent who is choosing the schedule 
that year, these dates will be respected.
vii.	The full schedule for the Winter Break will be decided by no later than 
December 10th of each year.

It's pretty hard for either parent to use scheduling as a weapon if you set reasonable, but firm, limits on how to negotiate times.

[sassie77]

Hi There,

just a suggested, this is what me and my ex have in our Court Order
Applicant gets kids on even years from Dec 23 at 2:00p.m. until December 25th at 1:00p.m. and the Respondent gets December 25th at 1:00p.m. until December 27th at 8:00p.m. this will alternate each year even years and odd years. Whoever has the kids on Christmas day the other party gets New Years december 31 at 1:00p.m. until January 1st at 8:00p.m. to be alternated into odd and even.
the regular acess schedule shall be suspended from the last Friday of school precedding the Christmas Holidays until the firs Monday back to school following the holidays, at which time the regular access schedule resumes.
Taking into consideration the above holiday access schedule the parties will split the remainder days 50/50.
We have in our an extra 3 days over xmas...

Hope this helps

[SingleDad12]

In my situation, seeing as my daughter was young when we separated, our agreement stated that one gets Christmas Eve and Christmas Day til 2pm, and the other gets Christmas day 2pm and all of Boxing Day. This alternates the following year and so on. The rest of her school holidays are to be split equally 50-50.