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Old 04-14-2009, 11:44 PM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
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Default Sample factum

A few have asked what is a Factum. I came across a sample template.

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Old 04-15-2009, 07:47 PM
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That should be made into a sticky.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:35 AM
John Jeffery John Jeffery is offline
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Default Factums can be tricky - but don't be intimidated!

I have recently filed a Factum for my case. I applied for Legal Aide for this because I was lead to believe that it was complicated. Legal Aide denied me stating my case was not complicated enough so I should represent myself and rely on Duty Counsel! Duty Counsel told me they are not allowed to help with FACTUMs.

Firstly, I don't agree that Legal Aide should be allowed to make that sort of decision. I more than qualify on income basis, and they should not decide I am able to self represent using Duty Counsel.

Secondly, Duty Counsel is a waste of time. They will only speak to you until they decide you are finished; whether or not you have further question.

It turned out to be that the Factum was not that difficult to prepare. It would have been better if I had good access and understood where to find cases to support my issue, but that is why I had sought Legal Aide - so I could have a lawyer that could do that easily. I now have all of my documentation trying to seek Legal Aide so when the time comes if the Judge doesn't like what I did on my own maybe he can find me a lawyer to use!!

My situation is that my ex wife refuses to follow Court Orders about communication and access, so the Legal issues for the Factum are pretty straight forward. If you don't follow Court Orders you have broken the law. How much more case evidence should I need? But of course - it is a poor mother who feels entitled to keep my children from me and refuse to tell me anything about them - so she will probably be allowed to get away with it. Maybe my Ordered Child Support payments should stop. Maybe I could make up excuses for that too, and get away with it!! (Fat Chance!!!)

I wish all of the allienation things that have been presented lately had been an issue in 2000 when this started for me. Mine is a PERFECT case for that, but luckily (for her) my kids are all older now and most not affected by all of this, so she has managed to succeed. I have not seen or talked to any of them for 4 years (despite Access Orders in place that the Court has never enforced even when I brought Contempt charges), so there is little hope of developing any relationship now.

Maybe they will need something from me some day. Their mother won't even know how to get hold of me!

Final thought - A few weeks ago there was a man in New York who had donated his kidney to his now ex wife years ago. He hoped to be compensated for this now that they are split.

It's a good thing he is not in Canada (at least Ontario) If he was here, our Courts would give her his other kidney now - in case she might need it later. The FRO would be happy to cut it out of him for her too.

Just might Rant for the day!!

Thanks for reading/
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Old 04-22-2009, 09:30 PM
frustrated11 frustrated11 is offline
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I can't open the link to help with the factum, will I have to file it when I submit 14B and the draft order and all the other documents. Also, does it have to be served on the opposing party?
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:14 PM
Steve Osbourne Steve Osbourne is offline
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Default Re Legal Aid

Ontario Legal Aid is a very sick joke, and don't believe what they tell you, their entire system is set up to "get rid of you".

Never ever believe anyone at legal aid, or believe "it aint complicated" because you are dealing with a set of judges with a pathological lack of empathy hell bent on not reading any of the pleadings and making a politically correct decision.

Legal Aid lawyers are paid less than motor mechanics , most would never ever make it in private practice and don't believe what you see in private practice either, most are incapable or have a string of complaints.

the ones who don't or have the ability are often very expensive and hard to get hold of. In between you really need to rely on trusted personal referals preferably from friends who achieved success, never ever rely on referral services or web sites.

You may think your case was "perfect" but so does every other deluded male who thinks "its so obvious" , "the judge will see it my way"..

There goes another idiot destined for destruction despite his extremely obvious meritious case.

Steve O
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:28 PM
Steve Osbourne Steve Osbourne is offline
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Default Sample Factum

Forget that factum link folks, its a bad link.

If you are representing yourself, do not just copy someone else's factum!

Your factum, is your story, its YOUR case, not someone elses, its not a FORM. its not something that you just fill in and hope that god is the judge, because if thats the case, just dont file, just pray. right?

Now, if you are thru playing with your rosary beed, try some common sense, its laid out in the rules of civil procedure, you might as well start at the Appeal Court of Ontario and see how they tell you to lay out a factum, if you follow those rules you can apply them to Superior Court Motions.

First you have an Index.

Part 1 "Overview"
part II "The Facts"
now, you are pages limited, the shorter the better, judges like it 'brief", the shorter the better. Narrow down the important issues, don't talk about the forrest if you are looking at a tree...

Keep it simple, remember, the other side, if lying scum bags won't want to deal with the truth, or the very important stuff, they will talk about anything else to distract the judge, or get him or her on to 'gender issues".

Part 3 or III is, "the issues", What is the order you are asking the judge to make? What does he have to consider? Put yourself in his shoes....

Now Part 4 or IV is "the Law" that you can look up in CanLii and look for identical issues and see what the latest cases tell you, but don't rely on them, remember most of the judges in Ontario are feminist in thinking and don't really give a rats rear end about justice.

Part 5 aka VI, "orders sought" or "Relief Sought"
Keep it reasonable, don't ask for some crazy kitchen sink judges don't know about or want to know about or hear about, keep in the realm of reality, and preferably common sense. Never rely on just one opinion and listen to your gut instincts.

Hope that helps..

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Old 04-22-2009, 11:34 PM
John Jeffery John Jeffery is offline
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Default Factums

Thanks for all of your input. I have finished mine and yes it has to be served on the other party. I'm told if they don't respond that they really don't get to have any say at Court. But I've been there and burned by that before so I am anticipating everything she will present.

I do know this time that if she doesn't have proof with her, I need to harp on it until the judge is willing to say something or accept her word. I hear that if he accepts her word, it will be grounds for appeal.

I also have a motion to change before her now. I'm sure she will never figure out her responsibility with that on her own, so hopefully that will work in my favour.

Maybe us guys need to go to court in Drag to finally get some justice!!

I'll let you know how my Factum case goes. Only a couple of weeks to go. At least I know I can't lose anything. I have no contact with my kids, live with my parents, use public transit and can't even buy a new pair of jeans. Whatever the judge decides she should have, there is nothing left!!
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:45 PM
John Jeffery John Jeffery is offline
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Default Legal Aid


You are right about Legal Aid. When I finally got to (by many calls and insistance) talk to the director of the office I dealt with, I did manage to get enough that if things don't work out I can say to a judge I tried to get a lawyer, but was refused, so have done the best I can.

I have lots in writing, and her name to refer him to - but in reality, I don't want to spend time arguing with them about Legal Aid.

The whole system is totally screwed- and everyone who thinks that men and women are treated equally is either a woman or is new to the whole process.

Of course if it went any other way there would be an uproar because most judges are men so of course they have to protect their nice, steady, easy incomes. Nice to get paid that much, ruin families and not be accountable to ANYONE at all.

I've heard that it is hard on them because they are relatively limited in their social circle because they have to be so careful about conflict - but that means they would need a personality that anyone would want to socialize with.
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Old 07-19-2009, 10:25 PM
susiecanoe susiecanoe is offline
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I can understand your frustration, but I am a woman on the other side and trust me, this is not a gender issue. It is a systemic issue. Family law, lawyers, judges, legal aid, FRO are all incompetent and to be honest I am convinced the system is set up to make those people/agencies rich or employed. Forget about court orders, they are useless. There is no mechanism in place to enforce them. My situaion is not unique. We have shared custody but the three children reside primarily with me. My order states the children are to attend every other weekend, mid week access and summer holidays. I am to keep him informed of the children's activities - I send a letter a week, include report cards, school photos, invites to parent teacher interviews, etc etc. My 13 year old decided last year to go live with Dad. Ok, so it hurt, but I assumed because he told me this was his wishes, that he would then visit with me every other weekend, mid week visits, summer holidays etc. Since going over to Dad's house ( whom is a hate camp against me), I have had no contact. No phone calls are returned, no report cards, no visits etc. Motions have been ignored, I receive no child support for the other two children, no consideration and constant threats - no judge has done a thing. NOTHING. It has cost me $ 30,000 and all I have is three children who are emotionally harmed and an ex husband who states he cannot afford child support yet continues to drag me into court at every whim. It is sad but true, this system only makes the judges and lawyers rich and the parties worn out, tired and depressed. But the worst is the kids are hurt every day. Pathetic. Trust me, I am a woman who has been an awesome Mom to her kids and has been beaten to a pulp by this ineffective system So please get off the feminist rant. Thats not the problem, its the system itself that is intended to be adversarial and ineffective.
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by logicalvelocity View Post
A few have asked what is a Factum. I came across a sample template.


This is a broken link. Anyway it can be updated?
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