Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How do i approach breach of part of an order

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How do i approach breach of part of an order

    The judge in first fcc made an order for access 6hrs every 3rd sunday of grandmother to 9yr old granddaughter, in that order he also put that nothing is to be discussed about the hearing or order to or in front of 9 yr old.

    The 18 yr old step daughter was staying with grandmother and on a visit between 18yr old 9yr old and grandmother.....18 yr old witnessed grandmother telling the 9yr old about the whole last fcc ordeal that a judge made an order to visit and how grammy had to go to court to get an order to see her and some details about how daddy doesnt want grammy to see granddaughter....then told 9yr old that she cant have a pet unless she texts grammy that she wants to see her overnights every 2 weeks "please please please" so grammy can take that to court.

    So I have a 2nd fcc tmrw to review the order...judge did not give any hints as to what might happen, but will bringing up the breach of order with judge immediately help a lot and is the judge just gonna give her a slap on the wrist and carry on....seemed like he took grandmas statements much more seriously than mine. I am almost certainly going to push it to trial as my daughter in my observations is affected by it and has cried and made weird statements about it all many times and seems stressed as am i.

    I am assuming fcc is laid back and judge will just sternly warn grandma about breach of order, seems like just a mud slinging meeting anyhow....

  • #2
    is the CAS involved? Is the OCL involved? How do you plan on proving these things in court? Who is the 18 year old? Are they submitting an affidavit of what they witnessed ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by trinton View Post
      is the CAS involved? Is the OCL involved? How do you plan on proving these things in court? Who is the 18 year old? Are they submitting an affidavit of what they witnessed ?
      The judge did not even read my affidavit at the last fcc, 18 year old is step daughter, what do you have to prove if you use witness and interview them? My last fcc just proved that I was evil dad refusing access and lieing and grandma was poor innocent grammy that needed access and judge seemed to believe anything that came out of her mouth. I offered to play an audio recording to prove a lie at the fcc and judge refused to listen. I was under the assumption that in a trial an affidavit with exhibits would not really be necessary if your witnesses would back up any statements you made or answer your questions to prove things.

      Anyhow this next fcc is to just revisit the interim order made at the last one which expires tmrw. So a new one most likely will be made.

      No OCL or CAS involved, should I ask for this or ask for anything else.

      Comment


      • #4
        From what I have read in cases on CanLii judge's DO NOT believe it is kosher to audio or videotape children. So best not to bring that up.

        I realize you are trying to PROVE something. The thing is, in family court, it's a given that everyone lies. If you really need something proven then you have to have irrefutable evidence (bank statements). If the matter is behavioral then you need professional clinical reports. Others on here will help you weigh the benefits or risks involved with involvement of OCL or CAS. One thing that I can see is that with the involvement of any other agency things will drag on at a snail's pace. If you can afford to bide your time then it very well may be worth it to you.

        Don't be misled by what you perceive is a judge agreeing with something that someone says at a case conference. For all you know the judge is bored out of his mind and merely nodding to try to stay awake. If people drone on and on and discussion doesn't move then the judge will likely not want to waste any more time of the subject. It is important for you to be extremely well-organized when you go into these conferences. I'd have a point form list of things you want to cover in the conference - this should match up with your conference brief.

        Comment


        • #5
          So I am sol. Demand trial and hope for best....so much for trying to look out for your childs best interests, Grandparents can play games and have fun and parents and kids come second, would think the grandparents have to do the proof work. There was no brief other than my affidavit/exhibits which meant nothing to him.
          The audio recording was just to help if she broke through the door and managed to hit me or daughter with the hammer, I would have something in case she blamed me for anything that happened such as bruising on her arm from me defending myself, all it ended up getting was kid screaming and hammer hitting door 50 times...
          All I can do is my best to do what I can to protect childs best interests. I guess if grandma brings text of child wanting overnights I can bring a letter from 18 year old sister saying grandma coerced her into doing the text and use it to counteract that issue.
          Last edited by undersc0re; 10-17-2016, 08:12 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by undersc0re View Post
            So I am sol. Demand trial and hope for best....so much for trying to look out for your childs best interests, Grandparents can play games and have fun and parents and kids come second, would think the grandparents have to do the proof work. There was no brief other than my affidavit/exhibits which meant nothing to him.
            The audio recording was just to help if she broke through the door and managed to hit me or daughter with the hammer, I would have something in case she blamed me for anything that happened such as bruising on her arm from me defending myself, all it ended up getting was kid screaming and hammer hitting door 50 times...
            All I can do is my best to do what I can to protect childs best interests. I guess if grandma brings text of child wanting overnights I can bring a letter from 18 year old sister saying grandma coerced her into doing the text and use it to counteract that issue.
            did you call the police to report it?

            Comment


            • #7
              You should remember that you would would have a different judge at trial. Case conference judge's are there to try to get parties to settle on many or most of the issues... to avoid trial. At a settlement conference typically discussion is supposed to be about how many days you anticipate the trial, who the witnesses are going to be, etc. I think people should suggest binding arbitration as opposed to trial. Arbitration (in Alberta it is a judge) hears both sides and tries to get parties to agree. Failing that the judge makes a binding decision. Arbitration is much less expensive than trial. No witnesses, just documents.

              Something to have the other side consider? Binding arbitration is quite common in Alberta. Courts in Alberta have recognized that the process helps the congestion of the courts and they therefore fully endorse the process. Ordinary people can't afford the 50K retainer + cost of trial. It is no surprise that lawyers do not suggest this process to their clients (cause they don't make as much money and many lawyers simply have no experience with it). Do you have any idea how expensive it is to have expert witnesses testify? (clinical psychologists, accountants, etc).

              If all you want is someone to make a decision and you don't have expert witnesses then I would strongly suggest binding arbitration. Also, the grandmother would not be a part of the process... rather it would just be you and your ex.
              Last edited by arabian; 10-17-2016, 08:46 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by undersc0re View Post
                So I am sol. Demand trial and hope for best....so much for trying to look out for your childs best interests, Grandparents can play games and have fun and parents and kids come second, would think the grandparents have to do the proof work. There was no brief other than my affidavit/exhibits which meant nothing to him.
                The audio recording was just to help if she broke through the door and managed to hit me or daughter with the hammer, I would have something in case she blamed me for anything that happened such as bruising on her arm from me defending myself, all it ended up getting was kid screaming and hammer hitting door 50 times...
                All I can do is my best to do what I can to protect childs best interests. I guess if grandma brings text of child wanting overnights I can bring a letter from 18 year old sister saying grandma coerced her into doing the text and use it to counteract that issue.

                Perhaps I'm not understanding you... surely the grandmother is not attending the conference? Conference should be you, your lawyer, your ex and her lawyer and the judge. I would refuse to attend a conference with anyone else who is not a named party in your divorce/motion.

                Honestly, if you can't handle the day-to-day drama of the grandmother's interference (which I totally understand) then you should probably get a professional involved. Others on here can give you advice on that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by arabian View Post
                  Perhaps I'm not understanding you... surely the grandmother is not attending the conference? Conference should be you, your lawyer, your ex and her lawyer and the judge. I would refuse to attend a conference with anyone else who is not a named party in your divorce/motion.

                  Honestly, if you can't handle the day-to-day drama of the grandmother's interference (which I totally understand) then you should probably get a professional involved. Others on here can give you advice on that.
                  It is just me and mother inlaw, the ex never shows up to court or anything related such as these case conferences.
                  The initial court appearance was ex mother inlaws application for access order, asking for an overnight and evening, judge immediately put it to a family case conference.
                  First fcc judge gave her interim order for access a few months ago that expires at second fcc which we scheduled.
                  This second case conference is tomorrow and I expect ex mother inlaw to ask for overnights every 2 weeks as per a text she got from her 9yr old grand daughter asking for it.
                  I disagree with any access, but it will cost me dearly in more missed work, time, money and family stress to fight it, so it feels like I have to bow down and give up and the ex doesn't care at all, except that maybe the ex might get money from mother inlaw to do what she wants...other than that those 2 don't really talk.
                  I guess I can ask about binding arbitration or another route I can take, I thought a trial would be cheap with no lawyers, we both currently do not have one, and I could just get a doctors note introduced if allowed by judge.
                  Hopefully that helps you understand a little better.

                  When I told judge I disagree with the order he said he will make it anyways and the next step is trial, he looked at me sternly when he said that heh.
                  Last edited by undersc0re; 10-17-2016, 09:58 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Put one foot in front of the other and don't get ahead of yourself.

                    Keep things simple. You want what is best for your daughter. As long as you don't come across as merely smearing the grandmother out of spite and can offer real substantive reasons for not wanting her access increase, you should do ok.

                    Remember that should you decide to take the matter further (go to trial or arbitration) that everything decided on tomorrow can be changed.

                    You can ask the judge for solutions or alternatives. You might be surprised and end up receiving some useful advice.

                    I think it is quite peculiar that your ex isn't in attendance (unless she is incarcerated).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by undersc0re View Post
                      It is just me and mother inlaw, the ex never shows up to court or anything related such as these case conferences.
                      The initial court appearance was ex mother inlaws application for access order, asking for an overnight and evening, judge immediately put it to a family case conference.
                      First fcc judge gave her interim order for access a few months ago that expires at second fcc which we scheduled.
                      This second case conference is tomorrow and I expect ex mother inlaw to ask for overnights every 2 weeks as per a text she got from her 9yr old grand daughter asking for it.
                      I disagree with any access, but it will cost me dearly in more missed work, time, money and family stress to fight it, so it feels like I have to bow down and give up and the ex doesn't care at all, except that maybe the ex might get money from mother inlaw to do what she wants...other than that those 2 don't really talk.
                      I guess I can ask about binding arbitration or another route I can take, I thought a trial would be cheap with no lawyers, we both currently do not have one, and I could just get a doctors note introduced if allowed by judge.
                      Hopefully that helps you understand a little better.

                      When I told judge I disagree with the order he said he will make it anyways and the next step is trial, he looked at me sternly when he said that heh.
                      Do not consent or sign anything that you do not agree with. Sounds like the judge is not given any weight to your evidence and wants the child in the grandmother's hands.

                      Any allegations of abuse made without evidence will hurt your case.

                      Just focus on yourself - you are the father and it is in the child's best interest to have access with your as per the maximum contact principal. That's all you need to say and the onus then becomes on them to prove otherwise - that's when you deny everything they say. They will need evidence to prove it. If they get you to admit to it under oath then that could be used against you. Keep fighting pal, if you lose, then you have the right to appeal.

                      Also don't forget that you have the right to file a complaint with the Judical Council if you feel that the judge is being disrespectful to you.
                      Last edited by trinton; 10-18-2016, 12:37 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by arabian View Post
                        Put one foot in front of the other and don't get ahead of yourself.

                        Keep things simple. You want what is best for your daughter. As long as you don't come across as merely smearing the grandmother out of spite and can offer real substantive reasons for not wanting her access increase, you should do ok.

                        Remember that should you decide to take the matter further (go to trial or arbitration) that everything decided on tomorrow can be changed.

                        You can ask the judge for solutions or alternatives. You might be surprised and end up receiving some useful advice.

                        I think it is quite peculiar that your ex isn't in attendance (unless she is incarcerated).
                        The ex is selfish, abusive, bad tempered, and a very mean person, she is a wackjob unfortunately and the apple tree is just the same. It is too bad for the children(step daughter and daughter)but I am doing my best, no matter how hard I try I am always an asshole and it seems like the ex mother inlaw is mad at me for being a better parent than her and her daughter and it almost seems like she is trying to ruin things ever since the seperation. The ex has missed in total 7 court dates or fcc and mediations.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by undersc0re View Post
                          The ex is selfish, abusive, bad tempered, and a very mean person, she is a wackjob unfortunately and the apple tree is just the same. It is too bad for the children(step daughter and daughter)but I am doing my best, no matter how hard I try I am always an asshole and it seems like the ex mother inlaw is mad at me for being a better parent than her and her daughter and it almost seems like she is trying to ruin things ever since the seperation. The ex has missed in total 7 court dates or fcc and mediations.
                          Using that language against her is not going to help your case.

                          Her being selfish has no effect on her parenting abilities.

                          You need to have evidence and prove that she is abusive and bad tempered, perhaps if she freaks out or acts out in court then you could use that as evidence

                          Her being mean doesn't effect her parenting abilities, is she being mean to you and disparaging the child? You could mention that she disparagaes you to the child and leave it at that.

                          They will always tailor their affidavits to make you appear as a bad person and throw in a couple lies on top - that's just how people are in this country when it comes to the court systems

                          Was there any adjournments for them not showing up to court? You could seek costs if the matters were adjourned for them not being present

                          You have to focus less on what they say about you and focus more on your rights to your child - they can say whatever they want and they will - it's how you react to it or if you react to it at all that can make the difference - why would these things bother you if they're not true?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by trinton View Post
                            Using that language against her is not going to help your case.

                            Her being selfish has no effect on her parenting abilities.

                            You need to have evidence and prove that she is abusive and bad tempered, perhaps if she freaks out or acts out in court then you could use that as evidence

                            Her being mean doesn't effect her parenting abilities, is she being mean to you and disparaging the child? You could mention that she disparagaes you to the child and leave it at that.

                            They will always tailor their affidavits to make you appear as a bad person and throw in a couple lies on top - that's just how people are in this country when it comes to the court systems

                            Was there any adjournments for them not showing up to court? You could seek costs if the matters were adjourned for them not being present

                            You have to focus less on what they say about you and focus more on your rights to your child - they can say whatever they want and they will - it's how you react to it or if you react to it at all that can make the difference - why would these things bother you if they're not true?
                            I do not use that language in the courthouse or in front of the kids. It only bothers me that my child is affected, especially as of late. I did not say anything about the court deal in front of child, but grandma did big time and it shows with the child stressing out, but she can just lie and say she didn't. I know, and my stepdaughter knows that grandma is doing this just to prove a point and one up me, because to her its a big game, stepdaughter has even said that she has said she is just proving a point that she can do this. Grandma showed her true side right at the end of the last fcc when she wouldn't accept the affidavit I handed her(she did not change her address with court)until that day, grandma refused the document and kept pushing back to me, judge asked to just accept it and she said no, this is personal and you don't understand...judge eventually talked her into taking it...she huffed and puffed.
                            The order states we will not talk about the issue in front of or to the child. She totally did not follow that part of it, so that will be my first issue as there is no doubt it would cause issues with any child.
                            Since the ex only visits with daughter maybe every 3-6 months, it would be nice if grandma was trustworthy and a good influence to give me a break lol...even the ex has never trusted leaving our child with grandma. Thankfully I have the most awesome daughter out of all this!

                            How professional does the doctor have to be, what kind of doctor should I ask my family doctor to hook us up with? Child has been having anxiety type issues lately and I am assuming it has to do with this but I would like to confirm with an experienced professional, hopefully free of charge(other than the letter).
                            Last edited by undersc0re; 10-18-2016, 11:43 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by trinton View Post
                              Just focus on yourself - you are the father and it is in the child's best interest to have access with your as per the maximum contact principal. That's all you need to say and the onus then becomes on them to prove otherwise - that's when you deny everything they say. They will need evidence to prove it.
                              I am not sure how this helps, I already have primary care and control, shared custody order and look after the child concerned 99.9% of the time, how does stating this help my situation? Sorry, just confused, it seems like I would sound controlling stating that. Does that mean I should have 100% parenting time as parent and she has to prove otherwise?

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X