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STBX motioning for a Custody/Access Assesment even though OCL has has done one

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  • STBX motioning for a Custody/Access Assesment even though OCL has has done one

    Hello community,

    As some of you know, my D14 now lives with me. My other 3 children (S13, S12, D11) met with the OCL (and their clinician) and indicated that they want week on/week off.

    Despite the OCL's clinically assisted assessment, STBX's lawyer is now saying they will motion for a Custody/Access Assessment.

    I find this utterly confusing. Can they do this ? Isn't this what the OCL is doing ?


    As usual, thanks for you input.

    PND

  • #2
    You can ask for what you like. You can oppose say it stresses kids unnecessary, at the very least she has to pay the full cost but you must agree jointly on an assessor. Your ex is grasping for straws it seems

    Comment


    • #3
      Is she asking for an update? Or brand spanking new one?

      Comment


      • #4
        Links7 you are wrong about her having to pay the full cost. Unfortunately they will both have to pay 1/2 even though she requests it! Welcome to the world were the judge's sole goal is to part both parties from all their money and destroy the kids in the process.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
          Is she asking for an update? Or brand spanking new one?
          Looks to be a new one. Regardless, I am not going to consent. Its stall tactics.

          Comment


          • #6
            First I'd get that cleared up. Update or new? If "new" .. makes zero sense. If "update", could have some merit (in her eyes .. and judges perhaps).

            Could be stall tactics .. or could be an attempt to get a shiny report, saying how she's changed, etc for the court's (update).

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stillbreathing View Post
              Links7 you are wrong about her having to pay the full cost. Unfortunately they will both have to pay 1/2 even though she requests it! Welcome to the world were the judge's sole goal is to part both parties from all their money and destroy the kids in the process.
              If one believes there is no reasonable reason for a new evaluation, as one was just done and/or there is no material change in circumstance, you may ask that the person requesting the evaluation eat the costs. It is a fairly common tactic to prevent one party from constantly looking for evaluations simply to impose economic issues on the other party or simply waste everyone's time.

              The OP should ask that the ex bears the cost. It may be a disincentive for the ex to actually follow through with another evaluation if there is a chance they may have to pay for the whole thing. The other alternative is that you ask that the ex bears the cost, and once complete the deems that there was sufficient change or reason for the evaluation, you will pay your proportional share.

              Comment


              • #8
                Things are going on 3 years. I want to resolve this and I am pushing things to a settlement conference.

                STBX's counsel wants another case conference, not a settlement conference. I said no and went ahead and booked settlement conference. OCL seems to be onside.

                I see the request for a case conference and another access/custody assessment as a means of dragging things out.

                I have had enough, and so have my children. I am obviously upset.

                Comments always welcome.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What custody scenario did the most recent OCL assessment support?

                  As Hammerdad suggests, if there has been a material change then perhaps a new assessment will be considered to be appropriate. However without a change, then I think the ex would have a difficult time suggesting a new assessment is necessary.

                  You may want to familiarize yourself with this caselaw, which does not support new assessments without alleged clinical issues (and has been cited several times since):

                  Baillie v. Middleton – Applicant's Request for a Custody/Access Assessment CCDB#1286635 – 2012 Carswell Ont 8014 Ontario Superior Court of Justice – Pazaratz J.

                  https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=2

                  Also, I can’t seem to upload it, but google Phil Epstein Children’s Issues Cases and Comments and you’ll have his comments as well on the above case, which would appear to support your argument against a new assessment.
                  Last edited by mcdreamy; 07-14-2015, 09:47 PM.
                  Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                    What custody scenario did the most recent OCL assessment support?

                    As Hammerdad suggests, if there has been a material change then perhaps a new assessment will be considered to be appropriate. However without a change, then I think the ex would have a difficult time suggesting a new assessment is necessary.

                    You may want to familiarize yourself with this caselaw, which does not support new assessments without alleged clinical issues (and has been cited several times since):

                    Baillie v. Middleton – Applicant's Request for a Custody/Access Assessment CCDB#1286635 – 2012 Carswell Ont 8014 Ontario Superior Court of Justice – Pazaratz J.

                    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=2

                    Also, I can’t seem to upload it, but google Phil Epstein Children’s Issues Cases and Comments and you’ll have his comments as well on the above case, which would appear to support your argument against a new assessment.

                    Thank you MCDRMY,

                    the only material change has been that my D14 has moved in with me. The OCL despite having provided disclosure prior to me moving to Toronto ( to be close to my children) have moved from there initial position and were key in me winning primary residence and care of my D14.

                    The OCL has been clinically afoot of the entire matter, and they see what's happening on a day by day basis. As such, things have moved significantly in my favor in as far as their position on matters.

                    I think that STBX's lawyer realizes this and hence the desire to "start clean" with a new assessment.

                    So while the case law you provided is excellent, there have infact been material changes, of which the OCL are fully aware and supportive of.

                    My argument for no further assessments would be that the OCL is doing just fine and is afoot of matters clinically. I would further argue that another assessment does not serve any purpose other than to delay matters further.

                    thoughts ?
                    Last edited by plainNamedDad44; 07-15-2015, 12:44 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So the original assessment supported primary to your ex? You’ve come so far, do you remember when you first started posting here? Wowzers.

                      Judges won’t be eager to make a determination on OCL matters, you need to give them a relatively fair parenting plan for all 4 kidlets to supplement the existing custody regime/plans and supplant the original report, else you might hit a judge who agrees a new assessment should be completed.

                      Now that the D14 has moved to you, what access for this kidlet have you implemented with the ex? You can't appear to be gatekeeping and I would suppose you'll soon start hearing accusations of alienation from the ex (a term too often thrown about this forum by many unhappy posters). And allegations of alienation will open the door. If the ex is being limited to time with the eldest, I could see some cause for concern - enough for a judge to consider a new report is required to determine the best interests of the eldest.

                      How are D14's marks in school, have they improved or stayed equivalent during the transition? Other than the above alienation concerns (what else could be argued as ‘clinical concerns’ if the D14 is doing well?), I think you rely on Baillie and related cited cases, which seem to fairly clear state that OCL assessments are not to be used as a tool to settle custody disputes. Were you able to find the Epstein commentary? If not, pm me and I’ll try to cut/paste it into a pm/ email.
                      Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                        So the original assessment supported primary to your ex? You’ve come so far, do you remember when you first started posting here? Wowzers.
                        Thank you.

                        Judges won’t be eager to make a determination on OCL matters, you need to give them a relatively fair parenting plan for all 4 kidlets to supplement the existing custody regime/plans and supplant the original report, else you might hit a judge who agrees a new assessment should be completed.
                        agreed

                        Now that the D14 has moved to you, what access for this kidlet have you implemented with the ex? You can't appear to be gatekeeping and I would suppose you'll soon start hearing accusations of alienation from the ex (a term too often thrown about this forum by many unhappy posters). And allegations of alienation will open the door. If the ex is being limited to time with the eldest, I could see some cause for concern - enough for a judge to consider a new report is required to determine the best interests of the eldest.
                        D14 is really starting do dislike STBX. D14 had her bank account emptied (3000.00) by STBX. I have been able to show D14 that STBX was fundementally lying about me. Evertime I have managed to have D14 visit STBX, ends up in screaming match or some other disaster. D14 sees now what STBX is really motivated by. $$$$ Its very sad.




                        How are D14's marks in school, have they improved or stayed equivalent during the transition? Other than the above alienation concerns (what else could be argued as ‘clinical concerns’ if the D14 is doing well?), I think you rely on Baillie and related cited cases, which seem to fairly clear state that OCL assessments are not to be used as a tool to settle custody disputes. Were you able to find the Epstein commentary? If not, pm me and I’ll try to cut/paste it into a pm/ email.
                        I am an engineer, so her math and science with my help have gone to A's. Also an A student in English. Other more ancillary subjects ( I won't name them as I dont wish to offend) have slid a bit.

                        STBX is doing a fine job of alienating D14 on her own. Doesn't need my help.

                        Long and the short of it is, the OCL clinician is afoot of matters... why do we have to start over ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          PLD, July was crazy(but fun!) with long weekends away, crazy deals, etc. -- where are you now?
                          Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you for your interest. Waiting on settlement conference.

                            Comment

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