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  • spousal support

    hi! to everybody, its been a long time i haven't on this forum, I just have a question who ever can answer me, regarding spousal support.

    Details:
    I did finished school as a pharmacy assistant last 2010, I worked for 6 months, I got laid off and cant find any job for 6 months. So i decided to go back to school again and finished just this March. And now Im recieving financial assisstant. I had my first payment this April for $600 a month. I am in the process of asking a spousal support. We are on shared custody agreement of son. I move out this Jan'12. rent is $950 my family is helping me pay the diff. on my rent. And what ever expenses I have till I get on my feet and find a better job. My ex-common law income is $35,000, according to spousal support guidelines I am entitle to get child and spousal support. But my ex-common law lawyer argue that they will not give any spousal support, child support they will. child support is $299 and spousall support is $7 to 8 hundred a month and they will retro pay me from Jan till present. Their argument is, if i really want to get a job, I will, even on sales or minimum pay. They said I am not entitle because I have 2 degree in college. It is impossible for me not to find a job. And hear this, they want to base my income as I worked minimum pay, and that is $24,000 and the diff. is $10,000, and they will base my spousal support on $24,000 income. Is it really true that if you have 2 degree in college, you are not entitle for spousal support. Is the judge will go by the rules or they will acknowledge what ever they are disputing. Our case conference is coming this week. And my lawyer said it depends on the judge, they might consider it or they will allow them to pay a spousal support according to the calculation.
    I need some answer so I know what to expect on our court date.
    Sorry its a long message but I hope somebody will try to read this.

    Thank you

  • #2
    You are responsible for obtaining work, and it is a possibility that he will be able to impute an income of minimum wage on you.

    Your education in irrelevant to the amount of spousal support you are entitled to. Since you are a new graduate it is understandable that you are having a hard time finding a job. Please contact your former school and ask if they have a program which helps new an recent graduates find employment. Most do. Make sure you show the court proof that you are using this service and actively seeking employment.

    Good luck

    Comment


    • #3
      thank you, i have a list that i been applying even i am still at school, and i have a copy of those, and yes i been contact with school about finding a job. They said it is really hard or down at this moment. But i just finished this March, its been only 3 months, so you mean the judge can approved their argument, if they will base it on $24,000 i only get $72 spousal support. I dont think its fair. They can't expect you to find job right after you finished school. And my graduation is still in August. But can they really do that, and judge will allow it. My lawyer did this calculation according to the s.s. guideline and we put all details about my education, so if that is the case why they say that i am entitled on s.s.
      So, you mean I can not get the amount on s.s. guidelines and why do they have to base it on a year period, not only on the time i finished school till now.

      thank you

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry, I don't even see that much support.

        That you cannot find a job for the time being doesn't mean you get to claim $0 income. If your ex lost their job, would you agree that they stop paying all support immediately? The courts would not, and if you were still married you would have to pay the rent somehow, going into debt if necessary. Being out of work doesn't obligate your ex to support you entirely.

        In Ontario minimum wage is $10/hr, that works out to roughly $20k per year depending on hours. Full time hours are 35-44.

        35k+20k= 55k
        55k - 3.5k (child support) = 51.5k
        51.5k x 40% = 20.6k

        Honestly you shouldn't be receiving a penny.

        Comment


        • #5
          Why are you going to court? What are the issues? How are you paying for your lawyer?

          How long were you common-law?

          How many children and how old?

          How long have you been separated?

          Comment


          • #6
            1. we are in separation process, i was at legal aid
            2. 12 years
            3. 1 and 9 yrs. old
            4. i move out January this year

            take note it is a c.c. all i want is the separation to be final and we are on shared custody week-on week-off. And my lawyer is the one who told me that i am qualified on child and spousal s.
            we do everything by the rules, separation guidelines i am entitled of c.s. and s.s. they just argue that they will not give me any s.s. and they only or will give c.s. because i have a 2 college degree. That i have to find or imposiblle not to find job. i do looking for a job, even when i am still at school, its just maybe i have a bad luck thats why i cant find job. I just finished last March

            thank you

            Comment


            • #7
              It seems reasonable that you are imputed a minimum wage full time job as you should be able to find that. You are an educated adult, you should take responsibility for finding at least a minimum wage job. Have you been looking for unqualified jobs such as coffee shops and cleaning?

              With two degrees, you should be able to make more than $35K. Maybe then you can pay your ex spousal support. Would that be reasonable?

              CS should simply be based on your actual (or imputed in your case) incomes and be updated every year in July based on the previous years tax return and/or income. You should be using offset CS in your case.

              Given his income of 35K and your imputed income of 20K and equal shared custody, mysupportcalculator.ca says $202 per month CS, $0 spousal.
              Last edited by billm; 06-14-2012, 01:23 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                maybe i dont;

                $10.75 x 40 hrs.= $430 a week
                $430 a week x 4 weeks =$1720 ( take not tax is not included)

                NOW:

                rent a month is $950
                baby sitting before and after every 2 weeks is $ 300

                950 + 300 = $1250 a month

                $ 1720 - $1250 = $ 400

                That is if I have full time for minimum of $10.75
                I dont know mind if the judge will see it that way. If that is the way it is, let it be that way. All i asked is, if they can really do that. So i know what to expect.

                thank you

                Comment


                • #9
                  The kicker with spousal is you have to prove you are entitled to it before you can bring calculations into things. Did you give up a career in favor of his? Did your advancement opportunities suffer from the relationship?

                  From what you descRibe you were essentially a full time student for some of that, so you gained benefit from the relationship, rather than suffered from it. On that basis alone, you shouldn't be in receipt of spousal, you don't meet the entitlement checks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Also, you forgot to add cctb/uccb and child support into your calcutions. That's another couple hundred.

                    Now look at your ex's side. 35k is approx $2000/month take home. Less 200 cs is 1800/month.

                    Hey look, you have damn near as much disposable income as he does. Minimal difference. With week about custody, so he has the same requirements for housing/clothing/etc as you do. With a minimum wage job, you are within 80-90% of his income. Spousal support would only come into play if you were UNDER 40-46%. You are double that.

                    Going back to school, while admirable, is a choice. If you cannot both go back to school AND support your children, you have to make some adult decisions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I dont think its fair. They can't expect you to find job right after you finished school. And my graduation is still in August. But can they really do that, and judge will allow it.
                      I think you need to shift your attitude a bit about spousal support. You may be entitled to a payment but I wouldn't go into court with the argument you've stated above.

                      You could have already been working while in school. I'm not sure why you couldn't find some job to help support your children while getting your education. Your ex does need to pay child support to his children..but you are not a dependent and it sounds like you're lucky enough to have an educational background which will enable you to earn a living. It also sounds like he supported you while you were going through school and not working.

                      child support is $299 and spousall support is $7 to 8 hundred a month and they will retro pay me from Jan till present.
                      He should be paying child support..and if he isn't...you can certainly ask for retroactive support. However that isn't the case for spousal if you are eligible for it.

                      Good luck.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is unfortunate, but the reality is neither of you make much money.

                        You have an obligation to support yourself. You also have an obligation to support your children.

                        You cannot claim an income of $0.00. Even with a McJob you can earn nearly $20k a year, which in your case is likely an low amount given your education. If your ex brings materials to court that someone with your skill set and experience (well, in your case a new grad) makes $X amount per year, it is reasonable for a judge to impute an income to you equal to that amount. Most lawyers will try to impute an income to you first at what your education and experience can reasonably make, or failing that, full time minimum wage.

                        Also, when it comes to your figures, there are a few numbers you are leaving out. First being the CCTB, which you need to include as income. Second you didn't include whatever amounts you would be entitled to receive in c/s, likely a setoff amount and the fact that your ex is obligated to cover his proportional share of daycare. So your numbers are low and otherwise wrong.

                        Second, when looking at your ex's income, what do you expect him to live off each month and how do you expect him to provide for your kids in a week about arrangement? At $36k, he likely nets amount $27k a year, so about $2,250 a month. Do you seriously expect him to be obligated to provide you with ~$700 a month from that amount, PLUS c/s (which is no one can argue) and also provide a home/food for your kids 1/2 the time? If he is paying full c/s, he'd be providing you with $522. If you add just those two numbers together he'd be paying you over 50% of his net income. A judge won't let that happen.

                        But the reality is, you need to support yourself in some way shape or form. Unless you are unable to work, a court will impute an income to you to what the court believes is reasonable. There are a number of reasons for this, including to determine setoff c/s and section 7 expenses.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "COOL DOWN" he has all kind of benefits, and maybe you have, name all the benefits you know he has it, he takes $3000 a month + all kinds of benefits, he claim it, borrow money from me, i pay rent, buy my own food, go on counseling for depression, while he drink all night, and you tell me if i dont deserved a spousal support. Hmmmm! now i think i have to fight for it, i guess for some people paying spousal support its hard to believe that they have to do it. you know, i use to work 12 hrs a day 7 days a week, pay baby sitter, before i went to school, while he sit dowm and get drunk. and then he find a job with a good pay, and he treat me like his tenant. I have to pay rent, buy my food, clean the house, cook. Now you tell me what is in your mind. if you still think the same, i hope you are not a judge on family law.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sounds like you are very bitter! Just be glad that you don't have to work your butt off for him to get drunk anymore, and you only have to clean up for yourself and your children. You might be on your own, but you are not accountable to him anymore!

                            There is no revenge or retribution awarded by the courts in family law. Officially anyways

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shorty View Post
                              "COOL DOWN" he has all kind of benefits, and maybe you have, name all the benefits you know he has it, he takes $3000 a month + all kinds of benefits,
                              OK, so he nets $36k, not grosse $36k. It makes a difference, however the difference is nominal.

                              He likely grosses $45k a year. Using that amount, you make closer to 30% of the net family income. Which means you may be entitled to some support.

                              But as has been mentioned, in order to prove entitlement to support you have to meet a couple tests, the "did you sacrifice your career for the benefit of the family test" and the next is a simple numbers test of what does he make vs what you make (or are capable of making).

                              There are other factors that may also considered, but they are case by case basis. The rest of your issues (the drinking and cleaning etc) amounts to little more than emotional drivel and has absolutely no relevance in court. A judge won't care and won't want to hear about it.

                              No, we aren't judges here. But many have been through this before and know what a judge is likely to want to see and how they will determine what if any spousal support award you may get. There is no absolute guarantee for spousal support especially for an educated, able bodied individual.

                              Comment

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