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  • Ex steals, yet expects section 7 costs

    My ex and I sold our home back in June 2011; I had not been living there since September 2010. After I moved out I set up mail forwarding to my new address. After the marital home sold in June I noticed I wasn’t getting some of my mail so I called Canada Post and they informed me that as of June I was already set up on mail forwarding to her new address; essentially she lied and said I was living with her so that she would get my mail. So, in my opinion that is mail fraud.

    My ex and I had a refund cheque for $1,000 coming from a utility company; the cheque was in both of our names. It ended up going to her new address and she has cashed it and will not give me my share which is blatant theft.

    My ex and I still share about $10,000 in joint debt. The sale of our home did not generate enough money to pay the debt; her and her lawyer will not even talk about splitting the debt at this point so it just sits there in both of our names. I froze the accounts over a year ago so that no more charges could be made but I still get stuck with the bill ever month and my ex is refusing to contribute any money at all to the payments.

    So, now that school for our two boys has started she is on a rampage signing them up for every single thing that costs money that is offered at the school. She went and paid to have my oldest son’s lunch catered by a company that works with the school….every meal of the week, not cheap. I the last month alone she has my oldest in close to $500 worth of school activities and all without consulting me.

    So, my opinion is that I don’t pay her the share that I owe under Section 7 expenses. I have had money stolen from me, pay my share of the joint debt with no help at all, and I still pay my child support and day care every month without ever being late.

    Will I get burned for not contributing to Section 7 expenses that I was never consulted on?

  • #2
    Do you have any kind of separation agreement in place? Does it contain any reference to section 7.

    You need to indicate to her that you will only contribute section 7 expenses that you have been consulted on ahead of time, and will only do so by paying your share directly. (or within 30 days of being provided a copy of the receipt).

    Little things like school lunch costs/etc are all covered by CS. A trip to the local museum that costs $20 would be covered by CS. A trip to a different province that costs $1000 as part of your kid being in a school group would be section 7. See the difference? The day to day crap is what you pay CS for.

    What's she going to do? Haul you to court? You'd have given her a reasonable offer as per above, so you'd have grounds to ask for costs. (and opportunity to file a counter motion vis a vis reimbursement for the joint debt)

    Comment


    • #3
      I see what your saying; is there anywhere that outlines what is covered by CS?

      I have tried to tell my ex that she needs to run these things by me but she does whatever she likes and then expects her share of the money. At the moment we have no agreement in place regarding section 7 expenses. All we have is an order from the judge stating the custody and access arrangement and detailing the week on/week off access schedule.

      I am working on a separation agreement a I totally agree that it should state that I will pay my share of the costs DIRECTLY....my ex is furious that I pay my share of the day care directly to the provider but really, why would I give her the money first just so she can forward it on to the day care?! I think her and I both know that she wants that money in her account just in case she runs short for something else.

      Thanks NBDad!

      Originally posted by NBDad View Post
      Do you have any kind of separation agreement in place? Does it contain any reference to section 7.

      You need to indicate to her that you will only contribute section 7 expenses that you have been consulted on ahead of time, and will only do so by paying your share directly. (or within 30 days of being provided a copy of the receipt).

      Little things like school lunch costs/etc are all covered by CS. A trip to the local museum that costs $20 would be covered by CS. A trip to a different province that costs $1000 as part of your kid being in a school group would be section 7. See the difference? The day to day crap is what you pay CS for.

      What's she going to do? Haul you to court? You'd have given her a reasonable offer as per above, so you'd have grounds to ask for costs. (and opportunity to file a counter motion vis a vis reimbursement for the joint debt)

      Comment


      • #4
        From:

        The Federal Child Support Guidelines: Step-by-Step

        Special expenses are:

        child-care expenses that a parent with whom the child lives incurs as a result of the parent's job, illness, disability or educational requirements for employment,
        the portion of a parent's medical and dental insurance premiums that provides coverage for the child,

        the child's health-care needs over and above that covered by insurance (for example, orthodontics, counselling, medication, eye care and other items) that exceed $100 per year,

        the child's extraordinary expenses for extracurricular activities,

        the child's extraordinary expenses for primary and secondary education or other educational programs, and,

        the child's expenses for post-secondary education.
        The term extraordinary expenses means:

        expenses that are higher than those that the parent requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, in light of that parent's income (including the child support amount), or

        expenses that aren't higher than those that the parent requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, but that are extraordinary taking into account:

        the income (including child support) of that parent,

        the nature and number of the programs and extracurricular activities,

        any special needs and talents of the child,

        the overall cost of the programs and activities, and

        any other similar factor that is relevant.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re lunches, as NBDad said, you pay c/s already to feed the child. The fact that your ex has decided to have the food catered instead of sending a ham sandwich is her choice. It should not affect you as you've paid your required amount.

          And a little add on to NBDad's point of not paying for anything that you weren't consulted with prior AND provided your consent. You have the right to say you don't agree. Should she do it anyway, she will have accepted that you are not a party (to a point, you have to take into considerations the best interests and your ability to contribute prior to saying no, because a court may decide it is necessary at the end of the day).

          The way I work it with my ex is, if she asks me for money for something, I ask for the details (preferably in email) and then email her a reply, either yes or no. At least that way I have it in writing my decision so there is no question of my position.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks a lot both of you! I really appreciate all the help in this thread and in others from you two.

            I'm going to address this in an email to her tonight. I don't mind paying for some of the expenses (pizza days, subway days that happen weekly) but the catering for the other days of the week is ridiculous, especially when my son like what I make for his lunch and it's probably healthier than what they will give him.

            Comment


            • #7
              Are you in a 50/50 situation and pay offset CS?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by billm View Post
                Are you in a 50/50 situation and pay offset CS?
                Yes, 50/50 and I pay offset CS.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Given you are 50/50 with offset CS (as am I).

                  All expenses that are not directly associated with one house should be split, with the exception of section 7 that you don't agree with. Flexibility is needed though. In my case, we practically have NO section 7 (except medical/dental).

                  All section 7 are split according to income because they are not part of the CS.
                  All other expenses are split 50/50 (already part of the CS, so specifically this means it is done according to income). Whoever pays for it, the other reimburses them for half the cost. This includes clothing, etc - all things that are not just for one home.

                  As for paying for a lunch program - I think you should do pay for that even it is not your choice as you are both parents, its not a big deal (as long as it covers you days too - no lunch to make!). So pay your half.

                  Probably all of the $500 of school activities are not section 7, so you should pay for half.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Do not pay for ANYTHING unless you gave prior approval. Don't deviate from this it will drive you nuts Your ex is showing her immaturity by signing them up to multiple programs without your knowledge.

                    Demand that you will expect an email from her describing her desire to place the children the preferred program. Make sure you keep a paper trail that outlines your reasonable request to be consulted.

                    Stop paying for any lunches ( subway, pizza day) it is covered by child support. If she wishes these lunches on her 'days' let her pay for them, stop being a door mat!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I dont' feel that you should pay for extra lunches. This is expected to be covered with CS. A court will rule that you should pay if the cost is in the best interest of the child. Catered lunches do not meet that criteria.

                      It is common sense that section 7 expenses should be approved by both parties previous to being purchased. If you end up in court again, have this spelled out clearly in a new agreement. Unless it is a true necessity, it is unlikely a judge would force you to pay.


                      There is probably not a lot you can do about the debt and cheque she cashed. This is where you need to weigh your options: is it cheaper than a lawyer to just walk away. Chalk it up to the cost of separating, or file a claim. A divorce will not be granted until this issue is clarified, if you are heading in that direction.

                      In the future, do not be intimidated. Pay CS, keep your credit rating good and do not agree to pay anything unless you have been consulted.

                      Comment

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