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  • #91
    It's pretty crazy that over 3 months after I move out of the matrimonial home, he calls me because he misplaced something and accuses me of theft.

    What's next, he's going to call me because he can't find the cheese grater?
    Nah, this stuff is all pretty normal. You're in the middle of a divorce and things will be heated for some amount of time.

    It will eventually dissipate and will happen faster the more you disengage. It takes time for the new habits to form to replace the habits you both already have.

    Nothing about your case or circumstances are that unique actually.

    That's why a lot of advice you're being given is based on the experience of people who've already been through this.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
      Nah, this stuff is all pretty normal. You're in the middle of a divorce and things will be heated for some amount of time.

      It will eventually dissipate and will happen faster the more you disengage. It takes time for the new habits to form to replace the habits you both already have.

      Nothing about your case or circumstances are that unique actually.

      That's why a lot of advice you're being given is based on the experience of people who've already been through this.
      PH is correct. Most here have been through (or has had a child go through) the meat grinder we call divorce. False allegations are rampant, Domestic violence can certainly be prevalent .. problem is many use it as a platform to get more $$ or access.

      As always its tough to weed the game players out. Tread lightly as judges are on to this now-a-days. Here on odf..we're not judges .. we cant see the evidence. Only you know for sure.

      People here have been around judges and family law. We know how they think and our forecast of your situation should be carefully digested by you .... trust me I know how you feel. You might not like what you're hearing (I didn't either when I first got here) .. but learn from it and trust us. I learned TONS here.

      This is tough times.

      Try to keep your head up, stay reasonable and settlement-focused.

      Comment


      • #93
        Just throwing this out there, I witnessed a recent settlement conference where the judge told the asking party that she didnt feel OCL was appropriate because the children involved were ' too young' at 7& 10 years old, and that it was very expensive, roughly 10k, therefore if the asking party still wanted to pursue it they would have to shoulder the cost on their own.

        Comment


        • #94
          The judge in my D's case(my GD was just a toddler) ordered OCL and actually admonished the lawyers for not suggesting it first. I guess it depends on the judges discretion.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            Just throwing this out there, I witnessed a recent settlement conference where the judge told the asking party that she didnt feel OCL was appropriate because the children involved were ' too young' at 7& 10 years old, and that it was very expensive, roughly 10k, therefore if the asking party still wanted to pursue it they would have to shoulder the cost on their own.
            Hmm. That's kind of what I feel, I have mixed feelings about it. My children are very young, and I don't want to expose them to anymore.

            My ex is very.. adaptable, and a great liar. I don't think OCL spending 1.5 hours with him is going to unveil the truth.

            It seems unnecessary, and a waste of the tax payers' funds. So does OCL cost money if the judge does not order it? Is that how it works?

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
              PH is correct. Most here have been through (or has had a child go through) the meat grinder we call divorce. False allegations are rampant, Domestic violence can certainly be prevalent .. problem is many use it as a platform to get more $$ or access.

              As always its tough to weed the game players out. Tread lightly as judges are on to this now-a-days. Here on odf..we're not judges .. we cant see the evidence. Only you know for sure.

              People here have been around judges and family law. We know how they think and our forecast of your situation should be carefully digested by you .... trust me I know how you feel. You might not like what you're hearing (I didn't either when I first got here) .. but learn from it and trust us. I learned TONS here.

              This is tough times.

              Try to keep your head up, stay reasonable and settlement-focused.
              Thanks.

              I value people's experiences, which is why I'm here, I just don't agree with some people making accusations. I understand no one here knows the truth, but that's just it, you shouldn't assume I'm lying, or telling the truth.

              People should try to stay objective and helpful, because that's what everyone is here for. Help.

              The legal system is overwhelmingly difficult when you're just getting into this, and suffering the stress of having your children taken away half the time. Reading through people's comments have helped me, and I've actually rewritten my case slightly to portray a new message.

              If the police, everyone on here, CAS all think that the actions he has committed are just "normal" as part of separation, then it's quite possible the judge has seen it before, and will feel the same way. Because of this, I've focused on what he's not doing for the children in his hunt to destroy me and build his case, rather than the actions he's committing against me.

              If makes for a contrast to his case, which is built around me calling him names (not in front of the children).

              Comment


              • #97
                Just throwing this out there, I witnessed a recent settlement conference where the judge told the asking party that she didnt feel OCL was appropriate because the children involved were ' too young' at 7& 10 years old, and that it was very expensive, roughly 10k, therefore if the asking party still wanted to pursue it they would have to shoulder the cost on their own.
                I posted the link for OCL up top. They have a toll-free number you can call to get info.

                I believe how it works is that your lawyer requests OCL involvement in your motion or conference. If both parties agree, the judge can order it and you submit an intake form. If OCL takes you case, there is no cost. Its ordered by a judge and agreed to by OCL.

                But if its not ordered, its handled the same way as a private assessment, both parties have to agree to the assessment and handle the cost themselves.

                So in the case you mentioned, the judge didn't order it, thought it was unnecessary but was allowing it to proceed for the one party that wanted it but at all one-sides cost.

                Personally, if you have to go this route, I'd prefer picking a non-OCL assessor....like a psychiatrist. Most OCL assessors are only psychologists or social workers and the cost is the same or higher as it would be if you used an actual psychiatrist. Also OCL is slow.

                If this OP's story is the extreme that she claims it is, the first step for this OP should be to request OCL involvement from her lawyer to a judge.

                However, if there's a police reports, etc against her or she doesn't have evidence, OCL could be a problem for her.

                Bottom line, judges need evidence and as a judge, I'd be wondering why OCL involvement wasn't requested if I heard a story this extreme and conflicting. They aren't just going to listen to the stories from either side...most likely they're going to just make a shared parenting determination or demand more evidence from an expert (OCL or private), in my opinion.
                Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 02-03-2016, 01:46 PM.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                  I posted the link for OCL up top. They have a toll-free number you can call to get info.

                  I believe how it works is that your lawyer requests OCL involvement in your motion or conference. If both parties agree, the judge can order it and you submit an intake form. If OCL takes you case, there is no cost. Its ordered by a judge and agreed to by OCL.

                  But if its not ordered, its handled the same way as a private assessment, both parties have to agree to the assessment and handle the cost themselves.

                  Personally, if you have to go this route, I'd prefer picking a non-OCL assessor....like a psychiatrist. Most OCL assessors are only psychologists or social workers and the cost is the same or higher as it would be if you used an actual psychiatrist. Also OCL is slow.

                  If this OP's story is the extreme that she claims it is, the first step for this OP should be to request OCL involvement from her lawyer to a judge.

                  However, if there's a police reports, etc against her or she doesn't have evidence, OCL could be a problem for her.

                  Bottom line, judges need evidence and as a judge, I'd be wondering why OCL involvement wasn't requested if I heard a story this extreme and conflicting. They aren't just going to listen to the stories from either side...most likely they're going to just make a shared parenting determination or demand more evidence from an expert (OCL or private), in my opinion.
                  I never claimed it was extreme, I actually specifically stated that it wasn't extreme.

                  If an assessor is involved I'd prefer private, like you're suggesting, as my case would require someone that speaks to the children and determines that a lot of things are being programmed into the child.

                  But we're not there yet. And I'd prefer to keep my children out of it as much as possible, which is what I've done, to the best of my abilities so far.

                  There aren't "police reports against me", but one of them puts me as the cause of the conflict because I entered the matrimonial home (invited) to gather some of my belongings. Based on the image that was painted of me by the police, I was the aggressor, but they weren't there, they are taking his word for it.

                  If the court needs evidence, police reports of accounts for events they weren't even there for, shouldn't be considered evidence.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    My ex is very.. adaptable, and a great liar. I don't think OCL spending 1.5 hours with him is going to unveil the truth.
                    It won't. And its unlikely that any court action you go to is going to reveal some truth in a monumental way in case like yours. You're very unlikely to have a "smoking gun" kind of moment. Although police reports can sometimes help...yours are contradictory. What you will get is a ruling to show their assumption of parental fitness.

                    What does sometimes happen is that a litigant will establish a pattern of behavior over time and a judge will rely on that to cast doubt of a litigants overall credibility. However, that can mean a long-term and expensive court battle and you want to stay away from that if you can. Trust me, you want to settle.

                    The legal system is overwhelmingly difficult when you're just getting into this, and suffering the stress of having your children taken away half the time.
                    You're not likely...given what you've posted here...to have your kids taken away. And what people are telling you here is that you're not likely to have an inequitable custody distribution either. Most likely...some type of fairly equitable shared parenting arrangement will be ordered. Both you and your husband seem to be fairly actively involved with these kids. He wants to see them, you want to see them...unless one of you is abusive, seems like you should both have access to them and there's no evidence of him abusing these kids although both of you have shown really bad judgement in involving them in stupidity.

                    If the police, everyone on here, CAS all think that the actions he has committed are just "normal" as part of separation, then it's quite possible the judge has seen it before, and will feel the same way.
                    Judges have seen everything and there's nothing at all unusual about your case. Its very common for people to start getting hostile and police reports to be flying around in separation and divorce. That's pretty much the standard these days.

                    The judges you deal with are going to very objectively look at things and their main motivation is going to try to keep a fair relationship between the kids and both parents because that's what's best for the kids.

                    Your ex's relationship with you is one thing. There's no doubt you two should stay away from each other. But his disdain for you doesn't necessarily make him a bad father. And that you both have different parenting strategies and ideas is the standard.

                    If you asked me who's the better parent, me or my ex, I'm going to say that I'm absolutely the better parent and could give you a million examples of empirical evidence to support my claim. However, I have shared custody because that's what the judge determined was best for my child.

                    You need to wrap your head around the fact that the judge is going to look at your situation from a much larger whole, so the best thing you can do is provide clear evidence. Not stories, not bs affidavits, EVIDENCE. Things like expert testimony, police reports, parenting plans, etc.

                    Because of this, I've focused on what he's not doing for the children in his hunt to destroy me and build his case
                    lol...you're not listening.

                    You need to focus on YOU. Bashing your ex and his parenting skills in court is very, very bad strategy.

                    If your ex wants to bash you in court, who cares...ignore it. I could show you affidavit after affidavit of stupid crap my husband accused me of...I answered back maybe 1/100th of it and only when it applied to accusations of parenting and I had evidence to back up my claims.

                    You do not get fairness in custody cases by bashing the other parent. You get fairness by showing how reasonable you are, how willing you are to work with the other parent and why you're a good mom.

                    You really aren't getting it and if your lawyer isn't stepping in here and stopping you from going down the path you're on...you need to get a new lawyer...they aren't doing you any favors.

                    Stop worrying about your ex and trying to prove who he isn't, you are not credible in what you're going to say about him...the judge will figure him out based on what he says without your help...worry about you and proving who YOU are.
                    Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 02-03-2016, 01:58 PM. Reason: typos and more typos

                    Comment


                    • If an assessor is involved I'd prefer private, like you're suggesting, as my case would require someone that speaks to the children and determines that a lot of things are being programmed into the child.
                      I had a private assessment during my case.

                      How it worked was that, my ex and I agreed on an assessment and it was ordered by a judge. My ex's...with his lawyer's help...picked the assessor and me and my lawyer agreed. This step is important because agreeing is an acknowledgement that you both think the assessor will be fair and non-biased. Then the costs were split by both of us.

                      It took about a year's time but mine was long due to a health issue of the assessor's. I think most go about 6-8 months in time.

                      Our's involved lengthy questionnaires both before and during, counselling sessions and psych evaluations for both spouses and the child.

                      Then there's a write up and a review session of the results.

                      There aren't "police reports against me", but one of them puts me as the cause of the conflict because I entered the matrimonial home (invited) to gather some of my belongings. Based on the image that was painted of me by the police, I was the aggressor, but they weren't there, they are taking his word for it.
                      What I'm trying to say is that police reports are actual evidence. And however you perceive things is fine, but the reports are contradictory and that's what a judge will see.

                      If the court needs evidence, police reports of accounts for events they weren't even there for, shouldn't be considered evidence.
                      They are though. The police are considered objective parties.

                      If you're going to walk into court trying to discredit the police or these reports, personally, I think you're walking into dangerous territory.

                      Comment


                      • I spent 3000$ for a private assessment - best money I ever spent in my life. It was critical against a stay at home "abused" mom....

                        -They did 2 personality tests MMCM and something else:
                        - showed my ex-was a liar and histrionic
                        - specifically confirmed I wasn't controlling/bad etc..
                        - recommended without any concern that there be shared custody
                        - It also indicated I had a "balanced" personality

                        That assessment protected me and was a critical part towards why I got 50/50 and event helped terminate the alimony.

                        It is important to find non-biased (or biased depending...) assessors - you can read about their reports on canlii

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                          I had a private assessment during my case.

                          How it worked was that, my ex and I agreed on an assessment and it was ordered by a judge. My ex's...with his lawyer's help...picked the assessor and me and my lawyer agreed. This step is important because agreeing is an acknowledgement that you both think the assessor will be fair and non-biased. Then the costs were split by both of us.

                          It took about a year's time but mine was long due to a health issue of the assessor's. I think most go about 6-8 months in time.

                          Our's involved lengthy questionnaires both before and during, counselling sessions and psych evaluations for both spouses and the child.

                          Then there's a write up and a review session of the results.



                          What I'm trying to say is that police reports are actual evidence. And however you perceive things is fine, but the reports are contradictory and that's what a judge will see.



                          They are though. The police are considered objective parties.

                          If you're going to walk into court trying to discredit the police or these reports, personally, I think you're walking into dangerous territory.
                          Perhaps, but it's still the truth.

                          The police weren't there, and since the ex manipulates the children, and tells them what to say before the police arrive (I SEE him do it, and have him recorded doing it, which the police refused to listen to). When the police arrive, the whole situation is painted the way he wants.

                          I have recordings of him (while waiting for police) stating that I swung at him, him calling someone and making up a story to have a "witness".

                          It's insane, and he's swaying the police with his lies.

                          Whether or not the judge likes me for telling the truth is a road I have no choice but to cross. His entire case is built on lies, and he's already contradicted himself in documents he has submitted.

                          My claims have been consistent for months, and I have email communications to prove it.

                          If this goes to trial, I'm sure he will exposed for the liar he is, therefore hopefully, taking away any credibility he has.

                          He broke down my bedroom door in the matrimonial home. When I saw the police report, it says I shouldn't have locked him out of a room to a house we co-own.

                          I'm sorry, but we were separated and agreed to separated sleeping quarters, and I should be allowed to lock myself in a room to prevent being verbally abused when I come home from work.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                            I spent 3000$ for a private assessment - best money I ever spent in my life. It was critical against a stay at home "abused" mom....

                            -They did 2 personality tests MMCM and something else:
                            - showed my ex-was a liar and histrionic
                            - specifically confirmed I wasn't controlling/bad etc..
                            - recommended without any concern that there be shared custody
                            - It also indicated I had a "balanced" personality

                            That assessment protected me and was a critical part towards why I got 50/50 and event helped terminate the alimony.

                            It is important to find non-biased (or biased depending...) assessors - you can read about their reports on canlii
                            $3000 was split between parties?

                            Would you care to share your recommendation for that private assessor?

                            Thanks,

                            Comment


                            • I believe in a previous post you stated your ex had suggested OCL assessment. Why not agree on this with your ex and have his lawyer suggest it (as you are self-represented) to the court?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by selfrep00 View Post
                                $3000 was split between parties?

                                Would you care to share your recommendation for that private assessor?

                                Thanks,
                                I paid for it by myself - my ex is useless.
                                No, I am not going to help you

                                Comment

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