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  • Ontario Works Court

    Hi,

    I have been served by Family Court.

    My ExWife Together for 10 years married for 4. Moved out of the martial home when we separated a year ago. She had a job and was paying rent. She is now living common-law with another guy. She got fired from her job for attendance. She got pregnent with his kid and then decided to file for Ontario Works. Which they gave to both of them since he does not work.

    We have been sharing a 50/50 shared custody of my daughter since we separated. I have paid no child support due to the high debts we have incurred which take up most of my 60K Salary. We have 250K of debt which includes a house worth 210K.

    Ontario Works now wants me to pay the table amount for child support to them for my daughter which is $577. Even know we share a 50/50. I tired to negotiant a different amount with Ontario Works but they want the table amount or we see you in court.

    So now i feel i'm backed in a corner and have to goto court. They are looking for child support retro to July 2010.

    I have filled out Forum 13 with all my financial statement and plan to file it in the court this week. When its all filled out there is nothing left over for child support after you account for our high debt payments which work out to about 2200 per month.

    If there anything I can do to so I can avoid CS which I can not afford.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Your debt load has nothing to do with child support... especially the mortgage payment. If you cannot afford the house, sell it!

    Generally speaking, with a 50/50 schedule, child support would be offset, but considering her lack of income... you will be unable to determine offset without having an income imputed against her.

    How much was she making before she lost her job?

    You are going to have to pay child support for your daughter... there is really now way out of it... and if you cannot pay the guideline amount, you will have to prove hardship to the court... (highly unlikely given your income/circumstances).

    Comment


    • #3
      The Mortage payment is $1000. Selling the house is not that simple. Its a house we bought from my parents for market value they gave us 70K to pay off our debts at the time we used it to buy a mini van and pay debts. The mortgage on the house is more then you would get for it since we just bought it 2 years ago,

      Also we have a letter from my parents saying we owe them the 70K if we sell because they live upstairs. They pay all the utilities but no rent.

      This really fucking sucks she cheats on me and moves out with another guy and leaves me with like 320K in debt and only 210K in assets. Thats if you count the 70K and I still have to pay her child support wow. So unfair.

      I totally understand I make a nice salary but i have been living in poverty trying to pay my debts.

      Thanks for the feedback.

      She was making about 25K a year before she get pregent and lost her job. Now she just had his kid last week. So shes not gonna be working for awhile.

      Now my other option I guess is go for full custody. Which will happen one day as my ex can barely care for one child let alone two. CAS is already involved but they will not tell me why just that my daughter is safe and they are visiting weekly.

      Comment


      • #4
        File a divorce petition. It'll trump the family court order and may kill her ability to get legal aid.

        Barring that:

        Whose getting the CCTb currently?

        Do you have any legal documents outlining the 70k you owe your parents?

        Is your ex on the deed or mortgage?

        Comment


        • #5
          Unfortunately you hooked up with someone who screwed around on you and now lives on welfare with a guy on welfare and both of them have somehow attracted the attention of the CAS. Sounds to me like a little writing may have been on the wall that you reasonably ought to have noticed prior to hooking up with her. But continuing down that road does nothing for you except to ratchet up your bitter feelings towards her and the situation.

          You need to come to terms with the fact that the law doesn't assign blame to either party when people separate. She cheated, she's a goofball, too bad so sad love Dad. The law does not care about that. Save the "This really fucking sucks" comments until you have learned a little more about how the system works.

          So now the constructive advice:

          You should do some research to better understand how CS works. At minimum you should be thinking about imputing an income to her to reflect her $25K job that she no longer has. That will have the effect of reducing the CS by $211/mth (based on the Ontario tables BTW, the Ontario tables call for CS of $557/mth). She can't just quit/get fired from her job and expect you to pay full CS. You will have a good argument there.

          Regarding the assets and debt, all that is taken care via equalization of family property. From the limited information you describe, it appears that there is a stone from which no blood can be drawn. I can get into a long drawn out analysis which will likely conclude that you will have no remedy there because she's broke but you will be better served by spending some long hours on this forum researching that.

          Now back to the can of whip ass:

          The fact that you owe more than the house is worth sucks, but at least you have a house, and $70K of that debt is owed to your parents. I'm guessing that they will be more than accomodating in your situation.

          Frankly, I would rather be you than your broke ass ex right now. Yes, the coming months and years are going to be tough on you, but you're making $60K/year and you have some pride in that I'm sure. You think she and her welfare BF are proud of their welfare income and the weekly CAS visits that are happening?

          Most of all, you are a good role model for your daughter. She needs you to keep on being that person, big time, especially in view of what's going on at Mom's house. Imagine your daughter as a teenager if she doesn't have you to look up to and her primary role models are your ex and her BF and the CAS.

          The best thing you can do right now is to provide your financial disclosure, require her to do the same and start paying offset CS of around $300/mth right now. Your daughter needs it. Like it or not, rightly or wrong, your daughter is living in poverty when she is Mom and you need to suport her. And this will look very good on you in the court's eyes. $4K/year in CS is not a lot dude. You can make it work.

          As for custody, if you live in Ontario you should be thinking about asking for OCL involvement as you have concerns about the home that your daughter is living in that is attracting CAS attention vs the stable home she lived in prior to separation. That is, assuming that you want sole custody.

          Your first post is all about getting out of paying CS. You need to figure out what time it is dude.

          If you need help with that ------> it's time to support your daughter.

          You and your parents would be well served to find a way to make your money life work. But your first priority is that little girl. So man up!
          Last edited by dadtotheend; 10-25-2010, 10:05 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi dadtotheend....Thanks for all of the feedback greatly apperiated. I have no issues supporting my daughter and I would give her the money in a heart beat but she will never see a dime of it. Ontario Works will claw back all of my support. So if she gets $900 per month now she will just $600 per month based on $300 per month.

            The money is better served with me so I can pay my massive debt. But like you said I have to come back to reality and thats not always fair.

            Yes writing was on the walls for years but I was dumb but too late now.

            Also what is the other bitter part is she got a settlement in July from a car accident about 3 years ago. She got 90K after deductions and money to welfare she got about 40K to blow which she now has nothing left.

            Another option I guess would be to try and get a 60/40 split with my daughter. As it will not change her ontario works cheque as that is not based on the number of kids you have. Also since she has one to replace her now her amount per month will not change.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by stevennew View Post
              The money is better served with me so I can pay my massive debt. But like you said I have to come back to reality and thats not always fair.

              Your ex isn't going to agree with that is she?


              Originally posted by stevennew View Post
              Also what is the other bitter part is she got a settlement in July from a car accident about 3 years ago. She got 90K after deductions and money to welfare she got about 40K to blow which she now has nothing left.
              Oh well, not much you can do about that now.

              Originally posted by stevennew View Post
              Another option I guess would be to try and get a 60/40 split with my daughter. As it will not change her ontario works cheque as that is not based on the number of kids you have. Also since she has one to replace her now her amount per month will not change.
              Again, that will be tough getting your ex to agree with that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi dadtotheend....Thanks for all of the feedback greatly apperiated. I have no issues supporting my daughter and I would give her the money in a heart beat but she will never see a dime of it. Ontario Works will claw back all of my support. So if she gets $900 per month now she will just $600 per month based on $300 per month.
                I too was in a similar situation. You need to get a lawyer and file a divorce petition asap that deals with custody, access, support and equalization.

                Make sure you argue to have her income imputted at 25K/year. Until it's fully dealt with you NEED to start paying offset amount of support. You CANNOT get around that.

                Another option I guess would be to try and get a 60/40 split with my daughter. As it will not change her ontario works cheque as that is not based on the number of kids you have. Also since she has one to replace her now her amount per month will not change.
                This will do NOTHING. 60/40 is the same as 50-50 as far as everyone would be concerned (at least from a monetary standpoint). If you give up more than 60-40, then you get to pay FULL amounts of support.

                Cut your ex a check for the offset amount each month, notify Ontario Works, and get a lawyer and start the formal court process. (File a DIVORCE PETITION...that will sometimes make legal aid ineligible to participate in the process)

                Comment


                • #9
                  The guys are right on the money stevennew,

                  File Divorce Petition and get the OCL involved. I know getting burned like that is brutal. And not fair at all. I assume you don't pay SS as you took on all the debt of marriage.
                  You have a long road ahead. But it will only get worse if you don't take the proper action. These guys (and girls) on this site really know their stuff.....
                  Good luck and don't wait for things to get better,,,make it work.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for all the feedback....

                    Me and my ex have a good working relationship and she understands I can not afford the child support. But she has no choice they will cut her off if she does not take me to court to get CS.

                    As for filing a Divorce I have no issues with this but what is that gonna cost. I have very limited funds due to our high debt. I'm trying to do this without a lawyer. We have aggrements in place and everything was good until Ontario Works said they wanted CS or they will cut her off.

                    I ment for me to take her 60% and her do the 40% which from the way I understand it my daughter would be removed from her cheque which will not change the amount because she just had another kid two weeks ago.

                    My Court date is currently set for the end of November.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I see what you are saying with the 60-40 thing. And that may in fact work. You are working the system though, however, it is a very flawed system. It's good you have a good relationship with ex. Keep that. It is worth its weight. And you are right, she has no choice, it's Ontario Works that want your money.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As for filing a Divorce I have no issues with this but what is that gonna cost. I have very limited funds due to our high debt. I'm trying to do this without a lawyer. We have aggrements in place and everything was good until Ontario Works said they wanted CS or they will cut her off.
                        Around $125-200 if you do it yourself...it's more of a protection thing, since it'll move the matter to Divorce Law rather than Family Law. (and at least here in NB it means Legal Aid won't cover the costs). Which if things turn ugly, is GOOD for you.

                        I ment for me to take her 60% and her do the 40% which from the way I understand it my daughter would be removed from her cheque which will not change the amount because she just had another kid two weeks ago.
                        60-40 is the same as 50-50...in order for the child to be removed from the cheque...you'd need 61%...which gives you sole custody and makes your ex liable for full table amounts of CS...though since she's essentially on welfare her income is effectively 0...making her obligation 0....also you'd legally be obligation to file for the CCTB for the full year, since your ex would drop under the minimum time required to maintain a shared custody environment. if your ex is amicable to all that, then by all means.

                        Who is getting the CCTB/UCCB? Are you getting it 6 months a year? Is your ex claiming it entirely? (You should be getting it 6 months FYI).

                        If your ex is amicable, then your cheapest method is to have a separation agreement drawn up with outlines custody, access and support, with an imputed income of 25K/year for her. If she is willing to sign it, then pony up the legal fees for an hour session for both of you, at different lawyers so you can say you both had independent legal counsel. Then file the bloody thing with the courts and tell Ontario Works to piss off.
                        Last edited by NBDad; 10-25-2010, 03:08 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Currently she gets CCTB all year because I never filed the paperwork to change that. I could file and get it for 6 months of the year but did not see the point as the amount I would get would be about $60 for CCTB and $100 for UCC. When she currently gets about $480 per month. Her losing CCTB will make this not sell able but then again shes gonna lose it for 6 months of the year eventually. Need to do some thinking on this one.

                          For last years taxes I claimed single and filed my daughter as my supose. They asked for supporting documents. I send them our agreement which says we share her 50/50. So far CCTB has not changed but from what I read they can decided to change it whenever. Since it makes no difference with adding her to my ex's she is claimed on mine.

                          As for income of 25K that will be hard two. I have checked her returns from 2003 to now the most she made was 21K. 07/08 are zero as she was getting money from the insurance company. 09 she has about 5K because she just started back to work. my estimate was 25K but proofing that could be next to impossible.

                          Thanks for all the feedback guys.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stevennew View Post
                            Currently she gets CCTB all year because I never filed the paperwork to change that. I could file and get it for 6 months of the year but did not see the point as the amount I would get would be about $60 for CCTB and $100 for UCC. When she currently gets about $480 per month. Her losing CCTB will make this not sell able but then again shes gonna lose it for 6 months of the year eventually. Need to do some thinking on this one.
                            Aside from it being the law that you get the CCTB on a 6 mth rotating basis, it could be part of your custody argument if it comes to that. You can choose not to inform the CRA and so can she. But again, it's contrary to the law.

                            Beyond the moral argument, if there is any chance at all that this will get a little or a lot more conflicted, you should be applying for the CCTB.

                            Comment

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