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  • Help with Daycare

    Hi there,

    I am looking for feedback from this forum to help me along making some daycare decisions for my son. I am in a high conflict situation, and I am getting absolutely no communication coming from my ex other than the usual threat of litigation.

    My son is 10 1/2 years old. He is outgrown daycare and is starting to act out and clearly voicing his displeasure at the daycare. Things need to change.

    I have 50/50 access with joint custody (parallel parenting), however daycare selection is joint decision making.

    My ex wants to move my son to a new daycare with me paying a larger portion of the cost (about 2/3 as a section 7 expense). Furthermore, she wants to keep him in a daycare for at a minimum the next 3 YEARS or until he is about 14 years old.

    In my home, I have a 11.5 year old and a 9.5 year old who have been walking to and from school since September with no issues, and my wife works from home 3 days a week. My son has expressed great enthusiasm in being able to be independent and to happy to be walking to and from school. On the days where my wife goes into the office, the kids have a maximum of 20 minutes of unsupervised time. They have access to neighbours, cells phones, etc... my home is also less than 300 meters from the school and the kids do not require crossing any roads. They have also all followed the home alone course to help prepare them for this step.

    My ex refuses to agree to anything, other than me paying for daycare that is clearly not required. I think it is important for my son to learn independence and he is mature for his age. We went to see a child psychologist, who agrees with this, however stated that if my ex didn't want to deal with having the child in my care for before / after school on her days, then she should be free to make accommodations at her cost. My EX will have nothing to do with this and will settle for nothing less than me paying for daycare because she is unwilling to let my son spend time with his family instead of a complete stranger and insists that I pay this as a section 7 expense, even though I am happy to provide this care at no cost.

    Am I out to lunch? Do you think a court would side with her? This appears to not be about the child, but according to the psychologist, has to do with the mother's own insecurities and anxiety.

    Help and thank you to this great forum, you've been an invaluable source of inspiration and a good sounding board.

  • #2
    There are lots of options that you could consider.

    If your access schedule is such that you always have Mon/Tues and she always has Weds/Thurs (i.e. not week on week off), then she could enroll in daycare for only her days.

    Or you can look at enrolling him in some activities instead of a daycare (might be more enriching than just going directly home).

    Does the new daycare offer any organized (not just drop-in) training/teaching? How does daycare cost compare to local city-run (i.e. reasonably cheap) activities?

    Don't worry about the 3 years ... just focus on the upcoming year.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know I'm always missing some information. My access schedule isn't ideal, personally I think it needs to change but that is another battle. Currently, it is split with myself halving Mondays & Wednesdays and the mother having Tuesdays and Thursdays. I do not think it is the most age appropriate, but it makes daycare difficult given that the child goes back and forth daily. My issue is that she wants me to pay for daycare on her days, despite the fact that I can and happy to provide this care at no cost to either of us.

      The daycare that she is proposing offers absolutely no benefit for the child. It is a home based daycare which lets him play video games, watch TV, etc... instead of doing homework or extra curricular activities. The mother isn't receptive to an organized program (this is what he is rebelling in to be honest). I think the after school program offered by the Y is an excellent alternative, however she won't consider it either.

      The cost is a concern, as what she is proposing is a significant cost to me but the bigger issue is that she is transposing some personal insecurities and missing the big opportunity in letting the child grow up and build his self confidence. I would be receptive to an organized program, however this proposition is an issue.

      One thing that was brought up was that she believed that I would be forced to pay these costs without problem through FRO, does anybody know this to be the case, even if I do not consent to this expense?

      Thanks,

      Comment


      • #4
        You schedule makes it easy. She can enroll him in whatever she likes ... on her days. Yes, you will likely have to pay a portion of it.

        I believe your court order would need to have some pretty specific wording regarding daycare expenses for it to be enforcable via FRO.

        I'm not surprised at your son's attitude towards the current daycare - I'm guessing it involves pretty 'artificial' activities - not really involving. I wouldn't take that as a reason to avoid getting him involved in something more real.
        Last edited by dinkyface; 02-19-2014, 12:48 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          FRO. Will only enforce Section 7 expenses that very clearly written out in Your agreement. Ie $361 per month for daycare, payable on 1 st of each month.
          I think you should sit down and talk with your son and talk about other options for after school care and allow him to be part of the decision and on the days you have him enrol him in the activity that you and your son think would be the best. For the days he is with his Mom he will have to do what she wants thats how it works. He is old enough to express his dislike of her choice to her. Stay out of her decisions. Sure for a while you might have to pay a little extra, but I doubt if for long. Mom will see how happy he is in the Activity you have and seek to cha ge her mind when it suits.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the advice, in my first communications with FRO, they advise me that child care is always a section 7 expense, so if an expense is submitted then it is divided. Even though it may not be required, as the support payer I don't have a say. Seems messed up with me. I should have clarified, my ex has very clear conditions on child care and a dispute resolution clause, but she is refusing to follow the order.

            I agree about not getting into my ex's business. Seems it's a double standard, I just learned that I have CAS called on my by my EX because she isn't happy with letting the child walk home on my time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gilligan View Post
              Thanks for the advice, in my first communications with FRO, they advise me that child care is always a section 7 expense, so if an expense is submitted then it is divided. Even though it may not be required, as the support payer I don't have a say. Seems messed up with me. I should have clarified, my ex has very clear conditions on child care and a dispute resolution clause, but she is refusing to follow the order.

              I agree about not getting into my ex's business. Seems it's a double standard, I just learned that I have CAS called on my by my EX because she isn't happy with letting the child walk home on my time.
              Well is she tries to circumvent the dispute resolution a judge will not be too,happy and you would ask for costs. So let her threaten all she wants. Just make sure you are following what you agreed upon in you Agreement. You can do no more than that.

              Not had any dealings, as yet, with CAS. But IMO if you have nothing to hide, donot worry about it. Just because she is not happy does not necessarily make it wrong. I believe a 10 1/2 year old can walk home on their own and from what you have said regarding your situation he is well taken care of. So dont get intimidated by her tatics and acquiesce to her demands. I think if you just let her do her ranting and ignore it, then she will get tired of it. The more you respond and try to adjust to her demands; the more demands she will make. If. It for this the. It will be something else.

              We have, from experience learned to ignore the threats and BS of calling lawyers and seeking legal counsel. If you believe you are acting in the best interest of your child when he is under your care then she can scream all she wants ; Not your concern.

              I cannot understand these high maintenace women. It seems they want attention and keep stamping their foot until you give it to them. And I am a women so I am not a male bashing women! I am a mother and a grandmother who is just trying to do the best for her family. Thats what you should do.
              Last edited by Beachnana; 02-19-2014, 11:27 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Beachnana,

                Thank you for the wise words, it is indeed helpful. I am doing what I believe is best for my son, and can honestly say that he is extremely proud and happy about the decision about walking to and from school.

                My EX has control issues, and when she doesn't get her way, she gets out of control by getting lawyers, CAS, police, etc... it's never served her in the past and certainly not helping our son, but it is more about revenge and vindictiveness. So much energy in being angry, I would just wish she would move on.

                It is difficult not to react or worry that you are making the wrong choices or decisions when faced with the prospect of litigation or at the receiving end of an investigation. I do agree however, not engaging is probably the best strategy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The law provides the child can walk home by virtue that there are no laws against this.

                  The act provides that a child has the right to spend aa much time with each parent as possible. So daycare over your house does not make sense.

                  Put mom on notice that you are available and willing to have the child go to your house after school. If she is not in favour she must advise you in writing within 48 hours and you will begin dispute resolution. Also advise her that failure to respond will be deemed as she is agreeable to child walking to your home. File court paperwork at same time.

                  CAS is to investigate safety concerns or abuse of children. Ask them what the allegations are so you can move on.

                  I suspect this is more about the 40 percent rule than about the kid walking home. Any more time at your house is threatening her CS no doubt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Serene View Post
                    The act provides that a child has the right to spend aa much time with each parent as possible. So daycare over your house does not make sense.

                    I suspect this is more about the 40 percent rule than about the kid walking home. Any more time at your house is threatening her CS no doubt.
                    A few hours afterschool 2/x a week wouldn't affect CS. Check what the OP wrote:
                    Currently, it (access) is split with myself halving Mondays & Wednesdays and the mother having Tuesdays and Thursdays. .... My issue is that she wants me to pay for daycare on her days, despite the fact that I can and happy to provide this care at no cost to either of us.
                    They have 50-50 access (Fridays alternate?)
                    OP wants the kid to come to his house (300m from school) on all days.
                    EX wants kid to go to daycare on all days, and for OP to pay a portion.

                    But
                    - the EX can't dictate where the kid goes on the OP's days.
                    - the OP would likely be required to pay a portion of the EX's daycare (for her days)
                    Last edited by dinkyface; 02-20-2014, 10:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It may not be 50/50 access which is why I state this. Yes he has the child two days a week and every other weekend however, depending on the wording he may not have 50/50 (perhaps the wording is access is from after school through start of school next morning for instance, which means the school days are counted as mom's). There is case law out there that is clear in this regard.

                      If they do have 50/50 access then you are correct mom cannot dictate where they go on dad's time (in theory as the ex in our particular situation dictates most everything regardless of who's time it is) BUT she could say that the daycare requires a full time spot blah blah and therefore he has to pay.

                      I think the key to this particular situation is this:

                      Its a home day care so offers nothing more/better than a child care centre would (and even that would be a stretch) but dad should keep this particular in his back pocket as if he reveals this mom could find a centre instead.

                      I don't think that the dad if he took this to arbitration or the courts would have to pay for the daycare of his kid even during mom's time. Not when there is a free alternative and furthermore the child could go to dad's. I suspect this is more about control than anything else. And I for one, know all about control games. They are tiring to say the least. I feel for dad.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Serene View Post
                        I don't think that the dad if he took this to arbitration or the courts would have to pay for the daycare of his kid even during mom's time. Not when there is a free alternative and furthermore the child could go to dad's.
                        I'm my personal experience and reading, the courts protect the autonomy of each household (i.e. EX has the right to choose daycare on her days - and OP is to pay a share).
                        Last edited by dinkyface; 02-20-2014, 11:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          To clarify, dinkyface, you are correct. It seems the CAS allegations is that Mom is uncomfortable with the child walking home. She's labeled the child as "special needs" to get CAS to do an investigation (the child has very mild ADHD and is medicated). It doesn't look like it will go very far, as both the child's daycare provider and a child psychologist strongly believe that the child is capable, willing, and ready to do this. CAS has my consent to consult with all of these people. I believe that it is control issues, as Mom can do what she wants on her days. However, she wants me to pay for my portion of full time daycare costs, despite not needing them when I can provide care for our son on all days at no cost.

                          Being a larger income earner, she has no vested interest in being cooperative as I pay a much larger portion of the costs so if it suits her, she wants him in daycare since it costs her very little. Her motivations may be influenced by CS, but it isn't a concern in my mind as I do not believe this little bit of extra time would count in any way for CS.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That is interesting... I can see both sides to this story.

                            It seems reasonable that the child would be better in the care of a parent than a stranger. It was my understanding that the courts would support that.

                            I don't have a problem with each parent having autonomy, but it isn't really autonomy when one parent tries to dictate what happens in my home (calling CAS), and if I get her the autonomy of picking her own care, then I am stuck paying for the majority of the costs.

                            This is not a requirement for my EX to work, she can work and have free care, this is about being difficult and making a choice to place her child with a stranger.

                            My ex is all about revenge, and the more it can cost me then all the better. It's too bad she can't focus on the child.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gilligan View Post
                              Thanks for the advice, in my first communications with FRO, they advise me that child care is always a section 7 expense, so if an expense is submitted then it is divided. Even though it may not be required, as the support payer I don't have a say. Seems messed up with me. I should have clarified, my ex has very clear conditions on child care and a dispute resolution clause, but she is refusing to follow the order.

                              I agree about not getting into my ex's business. Seems it's a double standard, I just learned that I have CAS called on my by my EX because she isn't happy with letting the child walk home on my time.
                              I really doubt FRO will execute payments for section 7 expenses that your ex submits unless the amount is specified in your agreement. We had a situation where the Dad was not paying his portion of the daycare invoice. We thought we could send the arrears to FRO and they could add it to his CS payments. We had a lawyer call FRO and they were told that FRO would not collect on undefined amounts. They donot do calculations if you send proof of salary and agreed upon proportions. Your agreement would have to say a specific $x amount of daycare expenses is payable to be paid each month on a specific date. They will not collect arrears unless the amount is in your agreement.

                              So make your arrangments for your son, let her make her own and only send the amount which represents your portion of daycare for her parenting days. Maybe send a polite note with the first payment explaining you are under no obligation to pay for arrangements she has made during your parenting time for services you are not using.

                              .
                              Last edited by Beachnana; 02-20-2014, 11:45 PM. Reason: Sentence missing

                              Comment

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