Changing Lawyers

[caranna]

I just sent my lawyer one last email outlining the problems with her charges and at the same time have requested more detail. We will see what response I get to that.

Any news yet?

[ChrisB]

Hi caranna. Nothing yet and only adds to the frustration.

[caranna]

I assume she's read it by now and if you were concise, clear and polite (even if you don't feel she deserved it!), she should answer within 24 hours.

When disputing fees, you need to get this matter dealt with as soon as possible. If LSUC hasn't been satisfactory, you may need to get advice from another lawyer about those legal fees.

[arabian]

Were you given any interim statements or just handed a large bill?

[I don't know why people do not insist on monthly or bi-weekly bills from their lawyers.]

Did you only recently come to the conclusion that the lawyer was incompetent and overcharging you (after you received the bill)?

You really can't do much until you get the bill and know what you are disputing.

Good luck.

[arabian]

Some lawyers get paid by way of "advances" on their cases from the law firms who employ them. Sometimes lawyers are "overdrawn" on their advances from their employers. Some lawyers even have to go to high-risk lenders to get loans on their accounts receivables of long-term cases (particularly injury lawyers). I have a friend who made a pile of money lending money to lawyers at high interest rates.

Lawyers, when challeneged on their bills, have to provide pretty convincing evidence of the work they have done on a particular case. Once you start an action against your lawyer you will likely be offered a settlement.

I heard of a woman who was going through a divorce and who had a lawyer who sat and did her nails every time they met. This lawyer sent 15 letters on the client's behalf, never attended court, and billed 25,000.00. They met 5 times. The woman ended up having to pay 3200.00 which is a far cry from 25 k. If the lawyer is wearing Armani you've probably got a problem.

[murphyslaw]

Honest lawyers wont be wearing Armani.Not in family law anyway.

[caranna]

Maybe this will help those of us who can't tell an Armani suit. The ladies' start at #4 I think

armani suit | eBay

[ChrisB]

I finally received a response from my lawyer yesterday and funny how all of a suddenn the blame for all the errors are now my fault. I guess I played a bigger role than I thought and maybe I should have been the one being paid. Either way she did reduce her bill by about $3200 plus tax but still a far cry from the amount I feel I was overcharged.

So now that I have ranted I have one more question.

Has anyone every actually taken there lawyers invoice to the assesment process and if so after it was all said and done do you feel it was actually worth it?

Thanks Chris

[arabian]

I could be incorrect here but I believe Hadenough disputed a legal bill and was successful. Not sure how she went about it though.

Did your lawyer give you an itemized statement at all or just simply reduce the bill? I'd be very firm on requiring her itemized statement.

[ChrisB]

No the bill was not itemized from what i see it just shows the days she prepared and the days in trial but not a detail of times,mileage etc.

[arabian]

Ok now go to your Ontario Rules of Court and there should be a guide on allowable charges (there is in Alberta). Do a comparison.

I've never received a bill for mileage from a lawyer, just an indication of hours (eg. date, description, hours). Of course there is always a disbursements itemization. Does your lawyer note the date - telephone call - time? That's usually an easy one to check.

[caranna]

Chris, I had asked you whether or not you had received the itemized statements in my first reply. I fired my first lawyer, but before I did, I requested and received itemized statements from him. The longer you wait to request them, the harder it will be to get them.

[caranna]

The itemized statements should include:

Date; Description of Word Done; Hours or Time Worked (usually in increments of 6 minutes); Amount charged, and Name or Initials of persons who did the work. If it was an assistant it should be at a lower rate than the lawyer in question.

These above headings should be applied to each and every day the work was done, so it might take several pages, with the total amount at the end. (GST/HST is added).

[mr.mom]

During the assessment do they look at the 6 minute increments lawyers use? For example. I got billed .20 "To receive an e-mail from you regarding why opposing party has not given us her financial disclosure"

This is the e-mail "Hi So and So, When was the disclosure due by? I thought it was due in June."

I got billed 12 minutes for something that takes 10secs to read.

This goes on and on. 24 mins for something that takes about 1 minute to read and a couple of keystrokes to respond.

It seems to me that at least 6 mins has been added to every item on my bill for every email or letter

Billed 24 mins to tell someone to adjourn a motion, of course then I get billed by that someone to listen to my lawyer instruct her to adjourn the motion lol

Is this normal billing?

In the end it doesn't matter. I didn't know I could assess a bill and it has been past 30 days

[Rioe]

During the assessment do they look at the 6 minute increments lawyers use? For example. I got billed .20 "To receive an e-mail from you regarding why opposing party has not given us her financial disclosure"

This is the e-mail "Hi So and So, When was the disclosure due by? I thought it was due in June."

I got billed 12 minutes for something that takes 10secs to read.

This goes on and on. 24 mins for something that takes about 1 minute to read and a couple of keystrokes to respond.

It seems to me that at least 6 mins has been added to every item on my bill for every email or letter

Billed 24 mins to tell someone to adjourn a motion, of course then I get billed by that someone to listen to my lawyer instruct her to adjourn the motion lol

Is this normal billing?

In the end it doesn't matter. I didn't know I could assess a bill and it has been past 30 days

Utterly crazy, isn't it? I had genuine sticker shock when I got my first lawyer bill. It's a business model that, to my admittedly limited knowledge, isn't practiced in any other industry. The plumber does not charge for every phone call needed to set up the appointment. The hairdresser does not charge extra for any lengthy instructions ahead of the haircut. The contractor does not bill for every km it took him to go to the building centre to get the drywall and nails. Only the legal profession does not absorb such expenses as simply the cost of doing business.

But I can't see it ever changing, because the people who could do so are current or former lawyers, and don't see anything wrong with it.

My lawyer has a tendency to itemize a bill much as you describe, and then reduce the whole thing at the end by a whatever % "courtesy discount." The % has varied with different bills and I don't get any advance notice about it. So when I disagree with any items, I'm never sure if it's worth contesting, because the discount may vanish or something. I'm sure that's the cunning plan, so I just pay instead of arguing. I really am at the point where I dislike my lawyer, and if I wasn't so close to being done, I'd find a new one. But now, I know I'll end up paying the final bill without arguing, simply to have it all done with. And the lawyer benefits all the way to the bank.

For an amicable divorce, mine sure has taken a long time and cost a lot of money. I don't want to imagine what an acrimonious divorce involving a trial might be like!