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  • Talking to kids/young adults about divorce

    My partner has found himself in an escalating situation with his 19 yo. Im wondering if anyone here has been through this, successes, and how you handled it.

    His D19 is going to university in the fall and over the last six months has begun to realize how expensive it is. And how much of a responsibility she has in it. This has created friction because of how she sees how the divorce shook down. Which is "you took all moms money so you should give it back to pay for my schooling". And also "my life is crappy because I have to work all the time and its all your fault".

    He explained to me that his ex didnt see equalization as fair. They didnt make it through one mediation because she felt he wasnt entitled to anything. Shes never agreed with the equalization including being told by a judge in court shes wrong. So the one child shares this (her comments mirror emails and phone convos he has with ex). The ex thinks because she had the higher paying full time job he contributed nothing. Ignore the salary he contributed, home renovations, yard work, cleaning, taking care of kids when he was not on a contract...

    He has approached this many ways: its none of childs business, its the law, its between mom and dad, ignoring the comments, trying to explain to her that he invested a large chunk of the settlement to pay for education, etc. Nothing he says is getting through to her. Its caused alienation and a very strong sense of anger between the two. he loves her so much and he struggles with how to rebuild the relationship.

    How does a parent talk to their kids about this? Does he recommend learning about the law? Is it a lost cause? Is this just a case of alienation that he has to muddle through? Maybe once shes away from home she'll be a bit more reasonable? Possibly its just that know it all teen attitude? They spent an hour fighting last night while he tried to discuss the issue maturely. She screamed at him while he tried to get a word in in between. Its so sad to see this break down between them. He says he doesnt recognize her anymore.

  • #2
    Personally I've been through a similar situation with my son. It's unwise to be discussing a couples financials with children (even adult children). Simply put there is not enough $$$ to pay for your continued education.

    She is after all 19 (adult) able to work a summer/part time job. Also there are student loans she can look into.

    My son complained about how the divorce was ruining his life - bottom line he had to put on his big boy pants and pay for his own college. Low and behold he got his diploma, a decent job and NO his life was not ruined lol. He's actually very proud of himself for doing it on his own.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say the issue he should be dealing with is the lack of respect.

      She needs to understand two things:

      1- the divorce is between the parents and should stay that way

      2- *IF* she.wants to discuss anything with him, and expects him to discuss with her as an adult, she needs to act like one.

      The second she starts the whiney, demanding, foot stomping Pre-teen behaviour and screaming at him, the conversation ends until she is capable of having a mature conversation without all the nonsense. Continuing to try to talk with her while this is happening is not only futile, but gives audience to her behaviour and encourages it to continue.

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      • #4
        Ya its that kind of a thing, putting on the big kid pants and realizing that life is tough. My partner is paying his proportionate share. Hes not a deadbeat. But because she has to work and applied for osap ("you have no idea how embarrassing that was for me") hes the devil. Compared to jobs ive heard other kids do, working 11-5 in a deli 4-5 days a week isnt the worst job you can do.

        He tells her all the time that what happened between he and her mom is none of her business. And if she chooses to believe what she has been told by her mother thats her choice but its simply not the truth. He finally told her that if she wants to blame him for everything fine, but she needs to get on with her life and stop being so angry because its only going to affect her future relationships. I suggested he try a new tactic with her which is changing the subject. When she makes comments about what he spends his money on or how he lives his life or how he took from them, change the subject and walk away. Now though, because of the different cities she just ignores emails and calls.

        He said hes going to give her space. Hes done trying to discuss anything. If this is how she wants to behave thats her choice but hes not going to enable or entertain it.

        My favourite new line is "im going to go to law school and become a lawyer and fix family law so this doesnt happen to other families." Um, maybe go sit in a family courtroom and see how bad some families have it. Especially the families where mom/dad pays nothing for anything including school.

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        • #5
          She is 19 (an adult) for god sakes - I would answer her directly with details.

          I would say:
          1. You're right you got screwed by the divorce - I am sorry - that's what happens. If the divorce was my fault I would say sorry I shouldn't have done X or I'd say its your mom's fault we got divorced.

          2. I would explain how the settlement was done and the logic behind it.

          3. I would explain to her my financial situation

          4. Discuss possibilities.

          LEGALLY, Divorce is NO-FAULT - but in REAL-LIFE Divorce is FAULT-BASED an the kids pay so either man up and apologize or tell them the reasons.

          My parents paid for almost all my education - I hoped to do the same for my kids but due the divorce I am just going to pay my prop share (probably 95% because my ex-wife is useless) and if my kids complain I will tell them that if their mother wasn't so useless I wouldn't have pay 10s of thousands in child support and could have paid for the education.

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          • #6
            Links, hes tried talking to her about things in a neutral "we both made mistakes" way but she is so entrenched in her moms camp. She believes the divorce was all his fault and hes not ready to tell her the ugliness and firmly believes its not her business. He has also tried explaining finances etc but it still goes back to "if you hadnt taken moms money we wouldnt be in this situation". Personally id be saying "if your mom hadnt kept a house she couldnt afford we wouldnt be having this discussion" but thats just me.

            She also doesnt get that most kids have to work to pay for school. Its easier to blame him than take responsibility.

            Hes tried to explain equalization and family law to her but shes still of the opinion that the law is wrong. And hes apologized repeatedly for his role in the impact the divorce has had. I dont believe he should apologize for her having a job or applying for osap. If they were still married osap wouldnt be an option and she would have to work.

            I suppose its just a case of letting her figure it out. At some point kids grow up and get over themselves. Sadly hes been alienated by the environment shes been in for four years.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              Links, hes tried talking to her about things in a neutral "we both made mistakes" way but she is so entrenched in her moms camp. She believes the divorce was all his fault and hes not ready to tell her the ugliness and firmly believes its not her business. He has also tried explaining finances etc but it still goes back to "if you hadnt taken moms money we wouldnt be in this situation". Personally id be saying "if your mom hadnt kept a house she couldnt afford we wouldnt be having this discussion" but thats just me.
              So he doesn't want to get into the "ugliness" then that's what happens. You can't win an argument if you aren't willing to discuss it

              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              She also doesnt get that most kids have to work to pay for school. Its easier to blame him than take responsibility.
              Right but if her parents were still together she'd have less of a responsibility.

              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              Hes tried to explain equalization and family law to her but shes still of the opinion that the law is wrong.
              She could be right, the law IS wrong sometimes.

              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              And hes apologized repeatedly for his role in the impact the divorce has had. I dont believe he should apologize for her having a job or applying for osap. If they were still married osap wouldnt be an option and she would have to work.
              Having some empathy for your child you dragged through divorce isn't bad.


              I suppose its just a case of letting her figure it out. At some point kids grow up and get over themselves. Sadly hes been alienated by the environment shes been in for four years.
              Actually, they don't - most people at 35 remember the divorce of their parents as one of the most tragic things in their lives.


              Recognizing the harm and saying I am sorry and doing what you can to make up for it is better rather than hiding behind "it's the law" and "I don't want to get into details" - both points are the refuge of the wrong.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey be sure to let us know how it goes when tell your kids their mother is a money grubbing whore. Im sure that convo will go EXACTLY as you hope.

                I was 25 when I finally understood my mothers role in her marriage breakdown. And I was as brainwashed as his kid is.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Links17 View Post

                  Recognizing the harm and saying I am sorry and doing what you can to make up for it is better rather than hiding behind "it's the law" and "I don't want to get into details" - both points are the refuge of the wrong.
                  Yep, I'm so sorry about the divorce and all the financial difficulties associated with it .... guilt and more guilt - I'm sure daughters/sons of divorced couples would never dream of taking advantage of this guilt in any way?

                  Should parents with low incomes have to apologize to their adult children when money is too tight to pay for their higher education? Or should adult children make their own way in life regardless?

                  For one who complains on this forum about ''entitlement'' can't you see where this kind of thinking will lead? Parents do not owe their children free university - if they can afford to pay for it that's great - otherwise, that's just too bad (divorce or not).

                  I also don't believe that parents need to explain their financial situation to their offspring. It's one thing to educate them concerning money and family law - but private matters are none of their concern...

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                  • #10
                    And the other thing is, she only has to pay one third of the costs. Shes pissed about that. Hes apologized repeatedly for the divorce and the situation it left them in, not enough. Its been made clear that they dont believe he deserved anything. Her attitude is that she shouldnt have to pay for ANYTHING.

                    He doesnt believe its her business to know what happened between he and her mother or what happened through the divorce other than he is there for them, he supports them, and he will continue to provide for them. It just becomes a continuous blame game for everything that goes "wrong" in their life.

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                    • #11
                      He doesnt believe its her business to know what happened between he and her mother or what happened through the divorce other than he is there for them, he supports them, and he will continue to provide for them. It just becomes a continuous blame game for everything that goes "wrong" in their life.
                      The fact he doesn't believe its their business is wrong in my opinion - when you divorce you destroy the family. The members have a rights to know when age appropriate.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Rockscan - admirable you are standing by your man but do realize that the information you have about the demise of the marriage is information your partner has told you.

                        The daughter is also biased because she has been bombarded with the mother's version of events.

                        Everyone has their own 'theory' of what went down and the reason for the marriage failing. Chances are that no one, including the two people who were married, know or understand the reason for the divorce.

                        One thing that is certain is that divorce is costly. Most people have to scale back spending in a big way. When kids are going through school parents want to do what they can to help as they know the kids are on the verge of starting their own lives. Parents tend to feel guilty and often think that had the marriage not failed there would be more money for things and kids would be happier. Of course this is not the case but rather something that the little "guilt boxes" instil in us the day they are born.

                        Often kids/young adults compare their lives with friends who have intact families and who seemingly don't have any financial worries. This is a pretty normal thing. Kids learn, early on during parent's separation, how to play the guilt card.

                        Everyone's family dynamics are different. Some people at 19 are much more mature than others and can have an intelligent, adult conversation about finances. Other young adults are emotionally immature and are still living in the "me me me" world. I don't think there is any hard and fast rule here on whether or not to talk to your family members about finances. Probably much depends upon how the two people have recovered from their divorce. If someone is carrying around alot of emotional baggage, and weighed down with financial strain, then it stands to reason that facts will get skewed as emotions heat up.

                        The young girl in question is probably not stupid. She might be emotionally hurting at this time but if the father does decide to discuss finances with her he should be honest with her.

                        I really don't see any good coming out of this though. Would likely come down to a mud slinging conversation with the daughter vigorously defending her mother.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I love how we consider 19 legally an adult, when most 19 year olds are entrenched in the protracted adolescence society forces them into.

                          All your partner can do is stay calm with his daughter, assure her that he loves her, remind her that there's a reason that he and her mother are no longer together and that it had a lot to do with disagreements. It's no surprise that her mother continues to disagree with his side. Expressing an understanding of her mother's point of view, even briefly with no details, may defuse some anger and help his daughter understand that the truth may lie somewhere outside her mother's opinion.

                          He could express pride that she's interested in law school, as the family law system does have flaws, even if they aren't the ones she's focused on. He can be encouraging of her ambition, and tell her it sounds like she has the passion and drive required to succeed and maybe affect those laws someday (reframing her anger and tantrum behaviour - lol). However, his equalization was done properly by current law, and his contributions to her education are being done properly by current law.

                          That said, he's got to show that he's on his daughter's side about her education, or he'll lose her completely. Perhaps he could do things like get her gift cards to the campus bookstore on special occasions. A bit of additional, indirect, help like this for her education may show his sincerity to her without setting precedents for him paying more than his proportional share.

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                          • #14
                            My partner takes on his share of blame for what happened. I know that hes at fault for a certain percentage of it. Im not naive enough to believe hes a good man who was screwed over. What I dont agree with is his ex placing all the blame on him to the kids. His daughter has been led to believe he was a monster who abused her mother and took all her money. Ive learned from his behaviours in situations with me both conscious and unconscious that there is more to what happened in their marriage. So im willing to give them both a pass on what went wrong.

                            His daughter has shown a level of immaturity and entitlement that has helped create this situation. She had to get a job, she had to apply for osap, shes had to take responsibility for her future.

                            He is taking responsibility for his portion, is supporting her, tries very hard to have a relationship with her but until she lets go of her anger about things that she doesnt understand, its a struggle. She doesnt need to fight her mothers battles but she constantly feels the need to do so which puts a strain on her relationship with her father. It always comes back to "my life sucks because you took moms money". Why he has to keep justifying the equalization is beyond me. Why shouldnt kids have a part time job? Why shouldnt they have to take responsibility for some of their expenses?

                            He has bent over backwards for his kids. The last year hes been played so much. Paid for train/bus tickets and then had the trip cancelled, school photos, gave money for expensive school supplies that went elsewhere...hes the bad guy no matter what he says or does. All because mom had to pay him an equalization.

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                            • #15
                              This sounds like a case of big girl pants to me. She has to work to pay for her university education? She has to apply for OSAP? Cry me a river. I did both, and I was paying for a whole lot more than a third of my tuition.

                              I agree with an earlier poster who said that parent-child respect was part of the issue here. If her father lets her yell at him for an hour, he's teaching her that this behavior is okay. He needs to walk away from these situations.

                              I suggest staying on a couple of key messages:

                              1. Divorce is between the parents. It is not open for discussion with children. Ever. The end.
                              2. Divorce causes financial hardships for everyone. Everybody has to adjust their expectations and contributions. This is called Life.
                              3. Mom and dad have different perspectives on the divorce. Dad is not going to argue with or comment on mom's perspective.
                              4. No matter what, mom and dad both love D19.

                              Comment

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