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My 1st CC Didn't Go Well. What To Do On My 2nd?

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  • My 1st CC Didn't Go Well. What To Do On My 2nd?

    Well folks. As most of you likely already know, my 1st case conference was an absolute disaster. Now I seek your knowledgeable advice on what to do, with my next case conference fast approaching in April. Long story short, I commenced a process back in October, filing a motion to terminate CS under the advice of duty counsel from FLIC. The outcome of the 1st CC back in January, heard by A. W. J. Sullivan was my CS got increased from $610 to $738. My ex-bitch decided to put me through FRO since she implied that there were "problems" as she puts it. The temporary variation to the original SA is the aforementioned CS increase along with stipulation that I submit my T4 for the next CC (which I just received this week), and the we are to exchange financial information every year (barring no other subsequent variations until then).

    Here is the background to my situation. My son (whom I haven't had contact with since 2007 for reasons I can't fathom to this day) will be turning 20 this July. For in-depth details, please read the first few posts of this thread to get a better picture:

    http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-paying-20320/

    Now, to add to this, this is the financial situation. My last year's income was about $81,924. My partner's income has been sporadic, as she is just starting out into a similar profession to mine. She starts her new job this Wednesday. We have three (her) children living with us, ages D15, S17 and D18. Her oldest is presently working P/T for a grocery store while attending the very same learning institution as my son, to increase the marks on three of her already completed courses to University acceptance level. So, she already has her HS diploma completed. My son does NOT. My ex-bitch's income is $17,448 (she's been on ODSP since we parted ways in the early 2000's).

    During the first CC, the aforementioned judge didn't seem to have a problem being convinced by the ex-bitch that our son should still be considered a "child of marriage", based upon his present schooling arrangement. She didn't even submit any documents (to my knowledge) that our son has any disability of any sort, that would explain why can't complete his HS in a more expeditious manner (at 1 credit per year???). The judge had a smile on his face when commenting on the fact that I have a "healthy" income.

    Therefore, my questions are, what do I do for the next CC? My ex-bitch is obviously extremely resistant to the idea of having CS terminated at any point in time for whatever reason. Although my income is "healthy", it's far from infinite that I would have the means to lawyer up. I may just have to adjourn the next CC until I can somehow scrape up the funds to retain one to attend the next CC. My problem is I "froze". I have difficulty speaking in front of an audience. I was more fixated on ensuring proper etiquette while my ex-bitch kept interrupting anything I had to say to the judge. The judge didn't seem to be keen to my suggestion that our son should be working at his age to contribute to his own support. Should I be much more aggressive next time? Should I bluntly come out and say to the judge that this useless excuse for a human being (ex-bitch) is simply using our son as a means to collect money off of me for an indefinite period of time, instead of genuinely being concerned for his "best interests"? His present arrangement is that he is scheduled to attend the learning institution for a total of SIX hours per week for three courses. Now that semester 2 is already well under way, I wouldn't be surprised if he has only completed ONE of those three courses, if even that!!!

    In in nutshell, the ex-bitch just wants to "keep the money flowing in" indefinitely as I see it. There HAS TO be an end to this. My son, I honestly don't foresee having any meaningful, genuine contact with him, since I'm sure he is heavily influenced by his mother by now. Up to what point will the courts allow, or encourage this to continue? Will my present living arrangements influence to court's position (the fact that I have three children living with us, for whom we receive no CS for)? Thank you all.

  • #2
    Why does your current partner not receive CS for her children? What has she done to obtain CS? Is there a current CS Order in place?

    With this in mind, your current "living arrangement" could indeed influence the court's decision... to continue CS for your son.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've been together with my current partner since March of 2004, moved in and lived with since September of the same year. She is presently in the midst of obtaining a divorce from him. Their SA stipulated that she have custody of the three, while he pays $610 (for the three). He has never been steadily employed. Worked several "under the table" type jobs, changed addresses more times than we can count. Apparently his DL has been suspended for years. So in answer to your question, nothing has been done in an attempt to collect CS from this man. One can't get blood from a stone. Last I heard, this man hasn't filed taxes for the last five, going on six years if this paints a clear picture of this individual. But how will this affect MY situation, is my question if any?

      Comment


      • #4
        how much does your partner make? What has been her average annual salary since 2004?

        I think your partner and you should be "certain" of financial situation of the father of her children. Be prepared to show that there is indeed a current order for arrears for child support. If the order is not with FRO then you are SOL. Did you know that they put people in jail for not paying child support? How far has the collection process gone? Losing a drivers' license for some isn't a big deal, particularly if they don't own a car.

        Sounds like you are supporting everyone...

        Comment


        • #5
          She has been collecting baby bonus for her three since we've been living together. But due to the ages of her three, she has already lost her baby bonus for the oldest, and about to lose it for S17 in June (when he turns 18). She's been working at a few different places during the last couple of years. She only just recently acquired her DL thanks to me. She is about to start yet another new job this Wednesday. Yes, I am aware that there is jail for those who default on their support obligations, but what does that achieve? As already stated, one can't get blood from a stone. And again, what really is this going to do for my situation? Not that it matters, but her three want nothing to do with their father. And I can't say I blame them. My son likely wants nothing to do with me either. His mother just wants my money.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well I'm sure your current partner would like money from her ex as well.

            Perhaps you should focus your energy on this?

            .... and getting your current partner to carry her own weight and support her own children? (wouldn't surprise me if she is the one egging you on to cut off support for your son).

            My ex is living with a chronically unemployed person (just like you) as well. She has made no effort to collect SS from her ex (same uncorroborated crapola that you've heard about your partner's ex, minus the DL loss) and is quite proud of this stating, self-righteously that she doesn't believe in SS. I find people who take this stance are usually the ones who are leaching off of someone. Sound familiar?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              Well I'm sure your current partner would like money from her ex as well.
              Nope. After very sporadic, small amounts of money paid by her ex to her, she has long given up the battle.
              Originally posted by arabian
              Perhaps you should focus your energy on this?
              Again, how and what for? Putting her ex in jail isn't going to achieve anything to help our cause in the least, financially or otherwise. Again, this individual doesn't have a pot to piss in. How much, if any financial contribution are we to expect to come from someone on welfare, living in the room of an apartment?

              Originally posted by arabian
              .... and getting your current partner to carry her own weight and support her own children? (wouldn't surprise me if she is the one egging you on to cut off support for your son).
              Ummm....What part of she has been working a few different jobs during the last few years did you not understand? She's been in a transitional period of establishing herself at a place that will, work out for both her and her employer for the long term.

              And no, she's not "egging" me on to cut off support to my son. You are already well aware of the situation. So what do you think should happen? I'm supposed support my son (who as far as I know wants nothing to do me) to do nothing with his life until he's 40 or 50? What exactly are you attempting to imply?

              Comment


              • #8
                I think you have to look at the big picture.

                You likely are a tad stressed at financial implications of those "baby bonus" cheques ending soon. The reality that you are living with someone who just recently bothered to get their drivers' license, and who has lived since 2004 in a "transitional state" has probably sunk in. (decreased income)

                Your ex, like your current partner, is chronically unemployed. (no income)

                Your son wants little or nothing to do with you and your partner's 3 children want nothing to do with their father as well. (no relationship with fathers).

                You are rather melodramatic as you know your legal obligations with regards to your son will end in a few years. Like it or not, your son is still in school. He may not measure up to your standards, and not as academically successful as your partner's daughters, but do remember that your son (no fault of his own) was not raised in the same sort of environment as your partner's daughters. In fact, if your ex is as bad as you have portrayed her it must have been a very rough childhood for your son. With this considered it is surprising that your son is staying in school.

                Probably the only difference between your ex and your current spouse is that your ex wasn't able to latch on to another man after your separation. Your current spouse did very well for herself by finding a generous and caring man who would take her and her 3 kids on.

                What to do? Focus on your spouse getting full-time, meaningful employment so that if/when your current relationship ends you aren't paying hefty SS and CS for your spouse's 3 children while they are pursuing post-secondary education (cause it sounds as though they won't be drop-outs).

                What you have to now pay in CS for you son will pale in comparison.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, it looks like you have two options:

                  1. Find new evidence that your son is not attending school full time. Have you contacted the school to determine what they consider a "full time student", in terms of course load? However, you tried this approach and it appears the judge didn't buy it. On the face of it, to me it seems not unreasonable that the judge would determine CS should continue until your son has had a shot at finishing high school, even though he is 20. The judge is probably hoping to encourage him to finish, which would be good for you too, as his father.

                  2. Put this aside and come back in a couple of years. It would be much easier to argue that a 23-year-old is not a child of the marriage than it would right now.

                  3. Quit referring to your ex-wife as ex-bitch and useless excuse for a human being. I expect you probably think that you're very calm and neutral in court, but trust me, that kind of hateful attitude is difficult to conceal (after how many years?). Train yourself into using correct terms.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kids who are over 18 and not attending school full time are not entitled to full child support. Calling the school will get nothing because hes over 18. This isnt a leap year situation. This kid has zero educational goals and is only registered in school so his mother can get a cheque each month. It doesnt matter what the other posters current partner does or how much money she has--this kid is not entitled to support!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Good point Rockscan. However, I do believe that when someone is trying to plead that they cannot afford to pay CS for their child due to having to pay for the current's spouses' children, all factors are considered.

                      Because there are no extenuating circumstances in this situation the poster will have to pay CS as he is considered a child of marriage.

                      The judge's smile (while remarking on the poster's income) may have been in response to the poster stating he wanted to end CS because he was currently supporting his unemployed girlfriend and her 3 post-secondary-age children?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think this is a good case to look at with regards to CS. It seems that judges have quite a bit of latitude.

                        http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...resultIndex=29

                        I wonder if paying CS directly to child would be a consideration in future? I know there are cases which cover that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          Good point Rockscan. However, I do believe that when someone is trying to plead that they cannot afford to pay CS for their child due to having to pay for the current's spouses' children, all factors are considered.
                          Again, this response only clearly shows how extremely misinformed you are. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not I can afford, or not afford to pay CS for my son. It has everything to do with whether or not I SHOULD, given the situation. If what was communicated to me, was that my son had completed the 6.5 credits he was short of his HS diploma during the year after he turned 18, I would not have sought legal advice, let alone filed the motion to terminate CS. I would have been far more open to having amicable discussions (if that is even possible) with the ex about the plans for our son, regarding his post-secondary education pursuits from that point on.

                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          Because there are no extenuating circumstances in this situation the poster will have to pay CS as he is considered a child of marriage.
                          To me, it doesn't really matter if I have to pay CS or not for now. Whether or not it ends now, or three years later, I will survive either way. The point of contention at this point is, WHAT is considered "attending school FULL TIME" for the purposes of a finding that "child" remains a "child of marriage"?

                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          The judge's smile (while remarking on the poster's income) may have been in response to the poster stating he wanted to end CS because he was currently supporting his unemployed girlfriend and her 3 post-secondary-age children?
                          FYI, I never mentioned anything in court about my current partner and her three children. The information was already on my financial form submitted. Did you actually read my initial post? AGAIN....my partner's children are currently aged D15, S17 and D17. Which one of these children are post-secondary aged? And AGAIN, with reference to my "unemployed" partner as you put it, she is about to start a new job this Wednesday in the hopes that everything works out well for her. She has been on a quest to pursue a career in the same line of profession as I have been in for the last 25 or so years of my life. Prior to that, she had fought for almost two years, submitting resume after resume to places similar to my place of employment to break into that career. She has actually done quite well, and made a lot of progress with every move she's made and I'm quite proud of her. Prior to that, she attended a community college to obtain a paralegal degree that sadly never worked out for her. So no, she is not a lazy, doing nothing "chronically unemployed" partner as you seem intent on portraying her as.....

                          ....then again, coming from someone who collects SS living the easy life for now, as opposed to actually going to work to earn an income, I'm not sure how much weight can, and should be placed on your opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stripes View Post
                            1. Find new evidence that your son is not attending school full time. Have you contacted the school to determine what they consider a "full time student", in terms of course load? However, you tried this approach and it appears the judge didn't buy it. On the face of it, to me it seems not unreasonable that the judge would determine CS should continue until your son has had a shot at finishing high school, even though he is 20. The judge is probably hoping to encourage him to finish, which would be good for you too, as his father.
                            The evidence I have, thus far are his HS transcripts for the 2014/2015 school year indicating 23.5 credits completed, along with his 2015/2016 transcripts which indicate 25 credits completed. I also have his school schedule which outlines three courses for the 2016/2017 school year, which indicate he is scheduled to attend every Monday for four hours total for two courses, and every Friday for two hours for the other course, leaving him off Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. So, if I were to go to my superior to request that I work only six hours per week, but would like full-time pay, how happy would he be? This is not to mention the majority of grades appearing on his HS transcripts are atrocious at best. Mostly 50s and 60s. Only two 70s and two 80s. Quite a few dismally failing grades. As far as contacting the school is concerned, the principal already refused to disclose any information about him to me, because he is over 18. Post-secondary education would be beneficial to anyone......anyone that's realistically capable of completing it, that is.
                            Originally posted by stripes View Post
                            2. Put this aside and come back in a couple of years. It would be much easier to argue that a 23-year-old is not a child of the marriage than it would right now.
                            It seems to appear that way for now. I am toying with the idea of adjourning the next date in April, until I can scrape the funds together to retain a lawyer that will attend the next CC and intimidate and put that bitch into her place so that a new final order will be drawn up that will specify a termination date. At least at that point, there will be some sense of relief to me, as well as everyone else in my household. This woman (and I use that term very loosely) has already caused enough drama to us. It's time for it to end once in for all.

                            Originally posted by stripes View Post
                            3. Quit referring to your ex-wife as ex-bitch and useless excuse for a human being. I expect you probably think that you're very calm and neutral in court, but trust me, that kind of hateful attitude is difficult to conceal (after how many years?). Train yourself into using correct terms.
                            I don't refer to her as that in court. I refer to her as that, only in conversation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              you are very defensive LOL

                              FYI: I have worked since I was 16 and am fully self-sufficient and work to this very day (9 hr days or longer 6 days/week and sometimes 7 in fact). I was the major financial contributor to the business I had with my husband. Even if this were not the case, I have successfully defended my entitlement to indefinite SS many times in court. I was fortunate to have competent legal advice. With that said, let's go back to your situation. I was merely providing you with reality of perception of what you may face, should you decide to pursue your matter in court. If you don't have the fortitude to face my poking and prodding then perhaps you don't have what it takes to see this thing through? Family court is a shit-show and once you will soon see that it is a blood bath. You, yourself, stated that you became speechless during your CC. Look, that's totally understandable. No one (including myself) enters into family court with a high degree of knowledge.

                              I erred in saying your current spouse's children as college-aged. I apologize for that. It is not unheard-of for children 17 yrs old to be in post-secondary school. I thought your son had applied and was accepted to a college and was going to be doing his high-school upgrading/equivalency at the same time? When you were comparing the academic success with your son (19) I incorrectly assumed they were similar age.

                              If you read the last case that I posted you will see mention in there (read paragraph 37 onward if you don't want to read the whole case) that the college's definition of full-time status does not necessarily align with child support law. If it isn't in that case I've read it in others and you can simply do your own search. This is something to consider.

                              I won't waste any more of my time on this thread. You and only you have to decide if your hard-earned money is worth going to court for the next 2-3 years over this. I personally feel that education is not a waste of money for any parent. You seem to have been able to properly raise and motivate 3 young people in your household. Perhaps if you were to pay your son child support directly you could shed some of your parental guidance and wisdom?
                              Last edited by arabian; 02-25-2017, 10:55 PM.

                              Comment

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