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  • Recording Ex On Video on Pickups Illegal?

    So during pick ups and drop offs, sometimes my ex brings up issues in front of our daughter in angry manner. Of course she doesn't do this by email because she knows I can show the court, so she does this on pick ups and drop offs. Today she started on me and for my own protection I started recording with my phone. As a man I can easily be accused, plus I hope that by filming that she will behave. Ive told her not to discuss court dates etc in front of daughter and just by email but this is what she does. And it almost always turns into her raising her voice or verbal abuse.

    She said that I did not have her permission to film her and that she was going to the police and she later emailed me saying she was at Police station. So far I haven't heard anything.

    Now this is technically on her property because its outside her front door but also out front in the open. And I clearly am filming and she is aware. I want to protect myself and document verbal abuse. When she asked why I was filming I said for my own protection.

    Is there anything illegal about this or that I could get in trouble with doing this?

  • #2
    Nothing illegal about this at all, especially if you are openly recording. One would hope her behaviour would improve knowing it is being recorded.

    Just know better than to post it anywhere. No reponse is required to her ranting, either in person or by email. No reponse is actually better.

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    • #3
      POlice isn't going to do anything unless you're recording inside her home or something.

      Best you get a hidden camera or something so the kids aren't being exposed.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
        Nothing illegal about this at all, especially if you are openly recording. One would hope her behaviour would improve knowing it is being recorded.

        Just know better than to post it anywhere. No reponse is required to her ranting, either in person or by email. No reponse is actually better.
        Yes definitely wasn't for posting.. Just my own protection. She gets angry in front of our daughter, often even ask I'm walking away to my car. Also she's lied in court before making up accusations and I know how easy it is to say anything.. Im a muscular guy and she's relatively small. etc. Has nothing to do with posting

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        • #5
          Good for you for recording in the open. It’s shows your honesty and character. My ex and his family members hid tape recorders (which the kids saw them hide) and recorded me. The consequences of that the kids refuse to have anything to do with his extended family. Won’t even look at them much less answer them. They and their father were sneaky and underhanded. It permanently damaged the relationship between the kids and his family plus added another reason they don’t trust or respect my ex. They said if he had recorded me in the open it wouldn’t have bothered them because it wasn’t sneaky. It didn’t help him in court because I stayed calm and polite.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stillbreathing View Post
            Good for you for recording in the open. It’s shows your honesty and character. My ex and his family members hid tape recorders (which the kids saw them hide) and recorded me. The consequences of that the kids refuse to have anything to do with his extended family. Won’t even look at them much less answer them. They and their father were sneaky and underhanded. It permanently damaged the relationship between the kids and his family plus added another reason they don’t trust or respect my ex. They said if he had recorded me in the open it wouldn’t have bothered them because it wasn’t sneaky. It didn’t help him in court because I stayed calm and polite.
            Great point!!!! Yeah I wasn't trying to catch her.. rather trying to prevent behaviour..

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
              So during pick ups and drop offs, sometimes my ex brings up issues in front of our daughter in angry manner.
              This will curb once your daughter is in school full-time as pickups and drop offs can be done at school for most of the year. As well you can do door-to-door drop-offs at residences.

              If you both live in Condo's / Apartments there are probably cameras or staff in the lobby who are witnessing the exchanges. If you do the drop off at McDonalds (and other similar places) there are cameras recording everything.

              We live in a recorded society. If the issue is that YOU are recording then, move the exchanges to a place that records EVERYTHING and EVERYONE.

              Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
              As a man I can easily be accused, plus I hope that by filming that she will behave.
              It isn't a man/woman accusation thing really and although you are focused on the gender issue it really is not. It is a "trustworthy" issue of the parents in general.

              More often than not, it is someone trying to leverage these encounters to claim a parent agreed to something they did not to. Like a late arrival time for the return of the children. "I told the_other_parent that I would return our child at 7:30pm not 6:00pm and the_other_parent said it was ok."

              Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
              Ive told her not to discuss court dates etc in front of daughter and just by email but this is what she does. And it almost always turns into her raising her voice or verbal abuse.
              Verbal abuse is a nonsense allegation at this point. I would drop the victim playing on that one. You don't need to amp-up to get your point across on this forum and especially in court. It will look bad on you.

              Do what Michelle Obama would do... When they go low... You go high.

              Don't sink low and say it is "verbal abuse". Its inappropriate conduct yes... But, it isn't abuse. See my posting http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ase-law-16809/ about the difficulty with the term "abuse".

              A level of disagreement and heated arguments are expected by the courts. They tolerate it somewhat. So, the best thing you can do is not engage. Say nothing.

              The purpose of an access exchange is for the child to transfer from one parent to the other. Go high and don't say anything. Discuss nothing. If you do have to say something simply ask the person to send it via email.

              Furthermore, access exchanges should be like pulling off a bandaid for parents. Quick and fast.

              Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
              She said that I did not have her permission to film her and that she was going to the police and she later emailed me saying she was at Police station. So far I haven't heard anything.
              You won't because it is not illegal in Canada.

              It is important to know that it is illegal in Canada to willfully intercept a private communication (section 183 of the Criminal Code of Canada).

              "Intercept" means: listen to; record; acquire or acquire the substance, meaning or purport of the communication.

              You are not permitted to surreptitiously listen to someone else's conversation, let alone record it. In fact, it is illegal in Canada to possess surreptitious recording devices.

              The reason you can record your own conversations is the "one party consent" exception, meaning, where one of the parties to a conversation consents being recorded, then they can record the conversation. In multi-person conversations, it only takes one party participating in the conversation to consent to being recorded to fit within the exception.

              Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
              Now this is technically on her property because its outside her front door but also out front in the open. And I clearly am filming and she is aware. I want to protect myself and document verbal abuse. When she asked why I was filming I said for my own protection.
              Its really a hit or miss if you can use the material in a family law matter. This article does a better job than most on this forum could on the issue:

              https://blog.separation.ca/tape-recordings-evidence/

              The case is not to be read as a blanket pass to secretly tape record conversations to be used as evidence. This was a highly extreme situation of alienating and abusive manipulation; AF was essentially teaching her children that they were entitled to hate and disrespect their father. Her conduct was psychologically damaging to the children as the spite for their father manifested in their cruel treatment of JW’s dog and threats of self-harming behaviour.
              Originally posted by Doctor Martins View Post
              Is there anything illegal about this or that I could get in trouble with doing this?
              As evidence in family law... It is not a good idea.

              Generally speaking "case law has held that secret recordings made by a litigant should be discouraged in family law matters." (Above linked article.)

              Do it for your protection from false allegations of abuse and other conduct that could find you being criminally charged. For use in a family law matter... I would err on the side of that open and/or secret recordings should be discourtaged in family law matters.

              Good Luck!
              Tayken

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              • #8
                Thanks for input

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                • #9
                  I was with the distinct impression (from reading many cases on CanLii) that judges generally do not approve of children being videotaped by parents, and videos presented as evidence, in child custody cases.

                  So if you are going to videotape, be sure your child is not in the video.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by arabian View Post
                    I was with the distinct impression (from reading many cases on CanLii) that judges generally do not approve of children being videotaped by parents, and videos presented as evidence, in child custody cases.

                    So if you are going to videotape, be sure your child is not in the video.
                    Yeah, know this was on her alone. And using my phone at kind of chest level. I did it again today when I served her and she didnt say anything so obviously the cops told her there was nothing she could do. And it had its intended effect which that no verbal attacks. Im not doing it for court, just to tone down the situation. Now if he started swinging an axe at me then yeah I would use it but I don't see that likely. lol it is good protection as in her latest papers she now says I verbally abuse her and also.. get this.. "am bullying her by serving her with legal papers".. oh and she is the Applicant.. sorry i would have preferred a settlement and not going to court but its actually an adversarial system you introduced into the situation ..

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                    • #11
                      There are may ways to "tone down" the emotion and vindictiveness at child exchanges for co-parenting, and one of them would be not to serve each other personally. And particularly, not in front of the children during an exchange.

                      Process servers are not expensive.
                      Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                        There are may ways to "tone down" the emotion and vindictiveness at child exchanges for co-parenting, and one of them would be not to serve each other personally. And particularly, not in front of the children during an exchange.

                        Process servers are not expensive.
                        that is one thing I do not understand either. When its a high conflict or emotionally charged situation then why serve the papers personally. Its best to keep the out of court face to face things as civil as possible.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                          There are may ways to "tone down" the emotion and vindictiveness at child exchanges for co-parenting, and one of them would be not to serve each other personally. And particularly, not in front of the children during an exchange.

                          Process servers are not expensive.
                          Never serve her in front of child but not reciprocated. Have always tried to arrange off site, and away from child. I hate to sound like a victim or blame but I can honestly say that from the beginning I've tried to settle, talk, ask to meet to discuss, mediate.. made offers to settle.. never anything in response and have been told intends to go all the way through trail. So I'm sure I don't do everything perfect but Its kind of like what do you do when one person is totally inflexible. And the outbursts in front of our daughter is what prompted me to tape. Everything is about her and what she wants. In her mind i should have just donated the sperm.. send a cheque and disappeared. And I've been with a stable woman for over a year who come to court with me etc, so I'm sure that doesn't help.. but tough.. She got pregnant on purpose to keep me, it didnt work, then its been parental alienation all the way along. I had to bring a motion just to get a copy of our daughters health card after months. So I don't think I can deescalate via being nice. Ive tried. Over and over..

                          I send her this every week with no reply:

                          I suggest moving forward that:

                          a) we use ourfamilywizard.com or similar app (there are free ones such as "2 houses") for more effective communication as to how to share parenting time
                          b) exchange parenting plans so that we have a better plan going forward
                          c) engage in a shared parenting 50/50 week-about arrangement (week on, week off) as a child having two homes is in their best interest as per the latest psychological children's studies and in the spirit of the status quo that has been ongoing this past year till you pulled back
                          d) that we come to agreement on holidays including summer holidays for both parties as well as how to split PA days and school trips.
                          e) work to come to a final agreement on the above so that we can avoid time consuming court events that only hurt.......
                          f) always be reasonable and find ways to avoid court, which is the primary objective
                          g) just like I completed a family post separation course that you complete a similar program so that we can be more effective parents

                          The ideas I am proposing are completely reasonable and in the best interest of.........

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                          • #14
                            I cannot impress upon you enough the importance of keeping this ensuing litigation between the two parties named in your lawsuit: you and your ex. Your new g/f should absolutely not attend any court matter with you. You look weak as well as high-conflict when you do this and yes, judges do indeed notice this.

                            You are equally to blame in bringing a child into this world. There is no such thing as someone "getting pregnant on purpose" - you obviously did not take precautions.

                            Trying to control everything and have everything done your way is a pipe-dream.

                            Have you attended any "parenting after separation" courses?
                            Have you looked into other ways of conflict resolution?
                            Binding arbitration is certainly an option.

                            If you don't want to have ugly scenes then take care to minimize your exposure to your ex. You don't have to text your ex all the time (you shouldn't be texting at all IMO).

                            If you have any sales background or training you would know that the best way to get someone else to agree to something is to let them think they came up with the idea. I'd suggest you swallow your pride and try this.... give your ex an opportunity to come up with some solutions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              I cannot impress upon you enough the importance of keeping this ensuing litigation between the two parties named in your lawsuit: you and your ex. Your new g/f should absolutely not attend any court matter with you. You look weak as well as high-conflict when you do this and yes, judges do indeed notice this.

                              You are equally to blame in bringing a child into this world. There is no such thing as someone "getting pregnant on purpose" - you obviously did not take precautions.

                              Trying to control everything and have everything done your way is a pipe-dream.

                              Have you attended any "parenting after separation" courses?
                              Have you looked into other ways of conflict resolution?
                              Binding arbitration is certainly an option.

                              If you don't want to have ugly scenes then take care to minimize your exposure to your ex. You don't have to text your ex all the time (you shouldn't be texting at all IMO).

                              If you have any sales background or training you would know that the best way to get someone else to agree to something is to let them think they came up with the idea. I'd suggest you swallow your pride and try this.... give your ex an opportunity to come up with some solutions.

                              Fair point on girlfriend. I agree to a degree about impregnating but was lied to about birth control, about getting an abortion etc. Men do not have the same options as women. I have had condoms break. I would have zero choice over abortion. In fact if I wanted to keep a child the woman could abort. I don't agree with abortion at this point in my life but thats a moot point. Its not true that its equal 50/50 because women have far more reproductive options in terms of birth control, abortion, morning after, etc. And outright lying is fraud if not recognized by the courts. Would you feel the same if I poked holes in condom to intentionally get a woman pregnant?

                              As I say in my last point in my emails (g) I have completed a course and ask my ex to do the same. All options for other resolution have been rejected. I have asked her for solutions many times to which she has said she is not willing to mediate, arbitrate or discuss any matters. Please read what I wrote.

                              Comment

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