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  • Income increase, amend support help

    Until motion to change was filed, disclosure from payer was not given. I asked for it, but it didn't get sent until change motion.
    Now after receiving income proof, it is obvious to see I did not get disclosure based on his income almost doubling for the two years NOA was not provided.

    Now I am being told I have been over paid in child and spousal support, so that he can plead arrears are to be wiped out based on over payment. I am supporting myself, so based on what I have, it doesn't seem right.
    I feel like Im just being "bullied" into believing that perhaps his lawyer is right. Legal stuff has a way of doing that to me, being vulnerable and naive in this area.

    I asked for arrears in child support to be paid, and a new order for the new table about of support be granted. I did not ask for spousal support to be reviewed. If that does not get ordered, I am still wanting the correct amount and arrears paid for child support..we are approximately 12 thousand dollars in arrears..just in child support.

    I have entered into an apprentice program and will be attending school first of the year when the course starts. I have been given paid hours for on the job training. Hope to be complete by end of summer 2015. I am trying to better myself, but struggling as he does not ever pay support on time. I feel it is on purpose. I do rely on my support. I don't want to have to, hence my schooling. Currently, due to lack of payment, and the fact that support is not being sent into fro consistently, I risk having to pack in my apprenticeship, just to make sure I can pay my mortgage.
    I need advise as to how to plead this case at the next hearing. Representing self against a very large legal firm my ex as hired. Help!

  • #2
    Originally posted by geena View Post
    Until motion to change was filed, disclosure from payer was not given. I asked for it, but it didn't get sent until change motion.
    Now after receiving income proof, it is obvious to see I did not get disclosure based on his income almost doubling for the two years NOA was not provided.

    Now I am being told I have been over paid in child and spousal support, so that he can plead arrears are to be wiped out based on over payment. I am supporting myself, so based on what I have, it doesn't seem right.
    I feel like Im just being "bullied" into believing that perhaps his lawyer is right. Legal stuff has a way of doing that to me, being vulnerable and naive in this area.

    I asked for arrears in child support to be paid, and a new order for the new table about of support be granted. I did not ask for spousal support to be reviewed. If that does not get ordered, I am still wanting the correct amount and arrears paid for child support..we are approximately 12 thousand dollars in arrears..just in child support.

    I have entered into an apprentice program and will be attending school first of the year when the course starts. I have been given paid hours for on the job training. Hope to be complete by end of summer 2015. I am trying to better myself, but struggling as he does not ever pay support on time. I feel it is on purpose. I do rely on my support. I don't want to have to, hence my schooling. Currently, due to lack of payment, and the fact that support is not being sent into fro consistently, I risk having to pack in my apprenticeship, just to make sure I can pay my mortgage.
    I need advise as to how to plead this case at the next hearing. Representing self against a very large legal firm my ex as hired. Help!
    The response to this is math.

    Start with Child Support. Make an excel spreadsheet with one column with months, One column with what the CS payment is supposed to be and one column with what the payment was and the payment date.

    Is the child support at the table amount, higher or lower?

    Do the same with spousal support.

    What you are doing is showing a pattern to the judge, not just showing the final number.

    I am assuming that your separation agreement or court order have a provision for his providing financial information on a yearly basis.

    I can't see a reasonable judge waiving arrears when his income went up.
    He can't really claim a material change in circumstances caused him not to pay. And you might be able to get an increase in CS based on his increased income.

    I don't know about your reasons for or wording on Spousal, but that is what you would have to look to, it can be less straightforward than child support.

    Comment


    • #3
      So, your ex is in arrears AND has somehow managed to overpay you? Which one is it? A timeline with more amounts might help get you better input from folks viewing this thread.

      The lack of prompt payment and disclosure would be frustrating. Is there a reason that FRO hasn't pursued more agressive collection measures?

      Is your ex attempting to get out of paying support entirely or just trying to sort out the amounts?

      Comment


      • #4
        Not a lawyer, not legal advice but we're going through something on the flip side. Theres a supreme court case on disclosure of income and your ex is obligated to disclose changes in income to you. He wont get away with not paying according to his income. And he wont get away with not advising.

        Do the spreadsheet for each year. Months down the side with columns for what the table amount is based on his income and then what was paid. Do a sum at the bottom of each and then a (total arrears owed) for each year then a full total of what is currently owing. (Sounds complicated but thats what we did).

        In your response to the motion to change (i believe you said hes done a motion to change?) youll do the amount youre seeking based on his current income and then the arrears.

        Youll want a full amount for both in a court order for FRO.

        Again, not a lawyer but this is what we put together for my partner based on our legal advice.

        Might be worth talking to legal aid and then a lawyer?

        Comment


        • #5
          So re-reading it sounds like you got a motion to change and all his financial info? The spreadsheet still applies. Take all the noa's and then your bank or FRO records of payments and fill it all in then determine how much he owes and what the current amounts are. I dont know ss so cs should be straightforward. Our lawyer said it goes back three years but may be an argument for more, again, not a lawyer. Your first thing would be the spreadsheet. Then youll do your response to the motion to change.

          Comment


          • #6
            Original court ordered support amount was based on his income…"Impute" income. He made less than they lay out. The other years he was actually making a lot more but did not disclose it..He is stating he has overpaid because he is stating I have been paid long enough. As much as he is probably right with his spousal support time line, I still feel that he should not be dictating when spousal support is to cease. I am ready for that to be dealt with. However the child support, I am being adamant about. He should have paid more and I want the arrears and new table amount paid. His lawyer is stating that based on the spousal over payment…they should be even and no arrears awarded for anything.And because I am representing myself, I don't have a lot of argument…I need a good lawyer pro bono..lol…ughh

            Comment


            • #7
              So you had an order for more than he was making. His income increased above what you thought he was making so now you want more?

              Comment


              • #8
                By your own admission SS has been over paid, but you don't think you owe him the over payment but feel he owes you the under payment for CS? Seems very two faced if you ask me.

                It should be simple to figure out... his over payment of SS minus his under payment of CS would be what arrears are. You can't have the best of both worlds and you are not going to do very well trying to argue to a judge that he owes you arrears for CS when you don't want to repay him what he over paid you.

                A simple solution... No arrears and on going table CS... seems reasonable and would most likely keep you out of court.

                Comment


                • #9
                  OP, you are correct, he should not be dictating when spousal support ceases. And in all likelihood, he has not overpaid in that regard - if he wishes to amend or vary his payments, it is his responsibility to request a review, not yours and certainly not his to arbitrarily decide a termination date. When his lawyer insists there has been an ss overpayment, you deny same.

                  Check out on Canlii what triggers a review of ss payments. You might find some material there to assist you.

                  As others have said, the calculation of cs should be a no-brainer if he has provided disclosure. Insist his lawyer provide same for your review. Make him do the work.

                  So you had an order for more than he was making.
                  Imputed income - standard for those who refuse to provide disclosure and based on past earning income.

                  His income increased above what you thought he was making so now you want more?
                  Again, standard - and the reasoning behind why parents exchange financials on an annual basis. Are you failing to grasp the basic concept of the cs tables? I can send some websites to review your way to assist you in understanding if necessary.
                  Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No. That is not how it is.Court impute an income based on his past. It has never been reviewed. He is claiming overpayment on that year. THe next two years he almost doubled his income, to what he normally would have made. NEVER made a claim until recently with the motion to change. Purposly did not disclose increase as he knew his child support would go up, and has. Pleading overpayment to wipe out his debt to me for that year. I am asking for what is the tabled amount. We are in arrears for a difference of $400 or so a month. time 12 times 2 and a half years he has not paid the correct amount. THIS is what I am wanting settled.I don't even care about the spousal support at this point. He has paid it in lump sums to put me in a tax bracket that I have to pay huge tax to the government. all very well orchestrated.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by geena View Post
                      No. That is not how it is.Court impute an income based on his past. It has never been reviewed. He is claiming overpayment on that year. THe next two years he almost doubled his income, to what he normally would have made. NEVER made a claim until recently with the motion to change. Purposly did not disclose increase as he knew his child support would go up, and has. Pleading overpayment to wipe out his debt to me for that year. I am asking for what is the tabled amount. We are in arrears for a difference of $400 or so a month. time 12 times 2 and a half years he has not paid the correct amount. THIS is what I am wanting settled.I don't even care about the spousal support at this point. He has paid it in lump sums to put me in a tax bracket that I have to pay huge tax to the government. all very well orchestrated.
                      And he is asking support to be based on what he actually made rather then the imputed amount? How is this unfair.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No. He doesn't want to pay anything. He doesn't want to pay arrears for the almost 3 years He should have been paying the tabled amount. The overpayment for the one year, if the court wanted too, I DON"T CARE, at this point. It is the unnecessary legal battle for the table amount and arrears owed that is the main point. If the year I was so called "Over Payed" was the case, it has taken him two years to plead that case. He should have made this claim prior if it was something he felt was right? He is trying to knock down all support, not just claiming overpayment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ya you need to do the chart and respond to his motion to change. Even just for cs. He cant get away with underpaying especially if there is proof of his income being higher and his failure to disclose the higher income until now will bite him. That was the supreme court case I mentioned. I dont have the name of it but it was recent. Im again suggesting you speak to a lawyer even if they help you with your response to his motion to change. And also how to fight for costs to get what you were entitled to with respect to cs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And he has three years to make his case on arrears. So hes within his limits. If you can show that his overpayment on ss equals his underpayment on cs then it isnt an issue but if his cs arrears are more than the ss overpayment it might be worth the costs to get it back.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And he also cant quit paying cs table amounts unless child(ren) are no longer eligible. So he cant plead not paying anything.

                              Comment

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