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  • Kids Sleeping elsewhere

    I'm a little confused about something.

    Many of you are always saying who cares what your ex does with the kids on her time. I've accepted that and don't really care. I do however have one question that is bugging me.

    As discussed many times we are both still living in the same house. Kids are split 50/50 alternating evening and weekends. No support is being paid. All household expenses are being paid proportionate to income.

    My understanding about the whole argument not to move out of the house is to not lose custody/access/control of your kids.

    What I'm having trouble with is the stbx having the kids sleep at her new bf's house on weekends etc. It's only happened a couple of times but I have a feeling she might try and increase it in the near future. Now the issue I have is not them sleeping there it's how is this different from me getting a new place and having the kids sleep at my new house on my nights with the kids. Her and her lawyers stance from the get go was it was not acceptable to remove the children from their home.

    So hypothetically could I not go out and rent a house move out and just keep the kids on the same schedule alternating weekdays / weekends. If she is having the kids sleep somewhere else what can she do to stop me from doing the same.

    Obviously this does not address the issues of support and all the other things that go along with me getting my own place, but isn't the whole point of me continuing to live in the same house to be with the kids in "their" house.

    Thanks

  • #2
    You would have an issue if she is doing over 50% of the time. If she is doing this only the occasional weekend it doesn't affect you. You are still with them over 70% of the time.

    If you want to be extra careful, then spend "special" time with them taking them to events, shows, sports, etc. and document it all, so that you can show that you were 100% responsible for them on certain evenings. As well, take them for overnight stays to your parents or a close cousin one weekend a month. I'm not saying this is necessary, but it is "extra" that will strengthen your position in any dispute.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      You would have an issue if she is doing over 50% of the time. If she is doing this only the occasional weekend it doesn't affect you. You are still with them over 70% of the time.

      If you want to be extra careful, then spend "special" time with them taking them to events, shows, sports, etc. and document it all, so that you can show that you were 100% responsible for them on certain evenings. As well, take them for overnight stays to your parents or a close cousin one weekend a month. I'm not saying this is necessary, but it is "extra" that will strengthen your position in any dispute.
      So just to be clear.

      I would have the kids M-W-F-S-S one week then Tue-Thur the next week.

      So on Monday. I would get them up, dress them, feed them and then the sitter picks them up at 8:00 am to go to school and I leave for work. I return home around 5:30 pick them up at the sitters feed them, do homework, bath them, the whole bedtime routine and then be there for them all night.

      Recently stbx has started to sleep out. So if Monday was my day and Tuesday is her day. She would not come home Monday night but would arrive home Tuesday morning at 7:00 am and she would then get them up, dress them .... etc.

      She recently asked me if we could switch our arrangement so that I would due the Monday after school stuff, the overnight, and then all the morning stuff. She would then do the Tuesday after school stuff, overnight and Wed morning. I told her we could settle if she wanted to live a more convenient life.

      On her night with the kids I normally work my second job and come home around 11:00 pm and sleep in the house. She often leaves Fri night and doesn't come home until Sunday when I have the kids on weekends which is great. However I coach my son's hockey team every weekend (early Sat morning / Sun mornings) so I almost always continue to sleep in the house on her weekends with the kids.

      Not sure if any of this matters or is relevant to my question.

      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        Honestly I don't think a judge would want to sort through all of that. If you wanted to do an Excel table and make a chart showing the comparitabe hours at a glance, I think this would cover your ass. But really, if you are spending that amount of time with them, is she going to argue "I have been taking care of them full-time because I take them to my BF's every other weekend?"

        And I will answer that, some jackass ex's will make an argument like that, but it's easily shot down. I do think it is a good idea to keep a written calendar and track all of these days.

        Comment


        • #5
          How funny I posted this today.

          I got home tonight and found all the kids stuff at the house from their vacation. According to our Christmas agreement she has the kids until Sunday however she was supposed to be at her parents house out of town (8 hours from here). I'm assuming she is now going to be staying at her bf's with the kids for the rest of the week (Orangeville). However now that she has brought them back "home" does this change things.

          The reason this has started to bug me is that in a text before Christmas she said to me that once things were settled if she decided to move in with her boyfriend the kids would be going with her and there was nothing I could do to stop her (50 km from their current school). I ignored the message.

          I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing everything I need to do to ensure I have a strong position for my case.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mess View Post
            Honestly I don't think a judge would want to sort through all of that. If you wanted to do an Excel table and make a chart showing the comparitabe hours at a glance, I think this would cover your ass. But really, if you are spending that amount of time with them, is she going to argue "I have been taking care of them full-time because I take them to my BF's every other weekend?"

            And I will answer that, some jackass ex's will make an argument like that, but it's easily shot down. I do think it is a good idea to keep a written calendar and track all of these days.
            Hi Mess,

            I don't think your getting my point. The whole reason I am still in my house living with my ex is because she is refusing to let me take the kids on my nights to my own house if I had one. She claims the constant transition is not in their best interest. So I'm confused as to why she is not doing pretty much the same thing she is arguing against.

            So the question is

            Is there anything I should do about it other than document?
            Am I entitled to demand the kids come and sleep in their own beds since there is no formal custody agreement? I'm not saying I'm going to I'm just trying to understand what's going on and how it affects things
            If I can take them to sleep elsewhere I'm just going to move out get my own place and take them to my new place on my nights. Pay her the offset amount in child support and be done with it. We can fight the rest in court later. At least I get out of the house.

            I hope this is a little clearer.

            Comment


            • #7
              1. If she shows signs of preparing to move, you immediately seek an order preventing this.
              2. It is not unreasonable in this kind of situation to have a gentle discussion with the children indicating that if mother moves, they should stay in their own home and continue in their own school. Do not alienate the children from the mother, but you do not let her manipulate them either.
              3. You should be filing for divorce immediately if you have not already done so. Once you are past the first case conference you may file motion orders. It is harder to get an emergency order without having a case conference completed.
              4. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Don't get so caught up in her day to day antics and where she is sleeping. Move forward in a proactive way. You have more than enough reason to expect her to try to move the kids out of town. Don't get caught with your pants down, take steps now.
              5. You are hopefully regularly involved with their school. Speak to the principal in a casual way. Make sure you are aware if she tries to transfer them. In the meantime make sure you can show you are an involved parent.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mess View Post
                1. If she shows signs of preparing to move, you immediately seek an order preventing this.
                1. That's why I'm asking she is spending more and more nights at this place and now she is also taking the kids there on her nights. This to me is not in the best interest of the kids and could be considered moving.

                  Originally posted by Mess View Post
                2. It is not unreasonable in this kind of situation to have a gentle discussion with the children indicating that if mother moves, they should stay in their own home and continue in their own school. Do not alienate the children from the mother, but you do not let her manipulate them either.
                Understood.

                Originally posted by Mess View Post
              • You should be filing for divorce immediately if you have not already done so. Once you are past the first case conference you may file motion orders. It is harder to get an emergency order without having a case conference completed.
              Done in September. Case Conference was in November. Long Motion scheduled for early May to deal with all matters of access/custody/support

              Originally posted by Mess View Post
            • Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Don't get so caught up in her day to day antics and where she is sleeping. Move forward in a proactive way. You have more than enough reason to expect her to try to move the kids out of town. Don't get caught with your pants down, take steps now.
            • I don't care what she does on her days out of the house. So what should I be doing to ensure this is not an attempt to set up a new residence in Orangeville

              Originally posted by Mess View Post
            • You are hopefully regularly involved with their school. Speak to the principal in a casual way. Make sure you are aware if she tries to transfer them. In the meantime make sure you can show you are an involved parent.
            • I am very regularly involved with the kids stuff. I take them to all their extra curricular activities on my days. I coach my sons hockey team every weekend even when it's not my days with the kids. I recently took them on a cruise for a week. I keep a daily log of all activities I do with the kids as well as who the kids are with etc. I attend the school events the best that I can including parent teacher interviews when requested etc. This is the one area I have difficulty with because of my commute and work hours.

              Comment


              • #9
                The reason it is being said to stay in the house until you have a custody agreement is so that she cannot play gate keeper. The fact that you are remaining in the house and doing all of the above with your children bodes well for you. If she attempts to move, you then block her move with the children stating it is in the best interest of the kids to remain in their area.

                Let her dig her own hole and you just plate your tree

                Comment


                • #10
                  ++ what Berner said.

                  Build your case positively around what you are already doing. The timing should work in your favour; if she tries to move now it will be in the middle of the school year.

                  In your upcoming motion, seek a secure, clarified order for joint custody and shared parenting, and a mobility clause that the children's primary residence shall remain in the same school district unless both parents agree to a move. This is neutral and on the surface non-confrontational. It would only seem aggressive if she already has plans to move them.

                  You need to be most wary in June when school is out.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Great info.

                    Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      my stbx brought my son to his hockey practice this morning and my daughter was not with her. I asked her where she was and she told me that she left her at his house.

                      Interesting that she did this because in her court response she said that we shouldn't be using "third party" child care when the parents are more than available to watch the children. The third party she was referring to was the kids grandmother (my mother)

                      I'm not happy with it, not sure what to do but this may be another opportunity to bash reality into my head.

                      Personally I would much rather watch my daughter myself than have another person watch them.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by FB_ View Post

                        I'm not happy with it, not sure what to do
                        I'd say..not much.

                        I'd love to have my daughter spend the two hours, that she spends at home with mom's boyfriend while mom does the grocery shopping, with me but at the same time I understand that it's mom's access time and therefore her choice.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I emailed my lawyer about my concerns and a couple of other issues that we are working on.

                          He said very clearly that she needs to be notified that we do not agree with any possible move until the matter is heard before the court and the children should remain in the family home until such time a decision is rendered. He did however state the following which I was expecting.
                          Ultimately though, you have very limited practical ability to control what she does with the children during her time with them. It is pretty rare that the court would intervene and micro-manage that issue.
                          I just wanted to make it clear that it is documented that I do not agree to any possible move she is planning with the children from their current residence.

                          He kind of insinuated what others have said....give her enough rope.... He also mentioned that she is doing the opposite what she has requested of the court.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by FB_ View Post
                            I'm a little confused about something.

                            Many of you are always saying who cares what your ex does with the kids on her time. I've accepted that and don't really care. I do however have one question that is bugging me.

                            As discussed many times we are both still living in the same house. Kids are split 50/50 alternating evening and weekends. No support is being paid. All household expenses are being paid proportionate to income.

                            My understanding about the whole argument not to move out of the house is to not lose custody/access/control of your kids.

                            What I'm having trouble with is the stbx having the kids sleep at her new bf's house on weekends etc. It's only happened a couple of times but I have a feeling she might try and increase it in the near future. Now the issue I have is not them sleeping there it's how is this different from me getting a new place and having the kids sleep at my new house on my nights with the kids. Her and her lawyers stance from the get go was it was not acceptable to remove the children from their home.

                            So hypothetically could I not go out and rent a house move out and just keep the kids on the same schedule alternating weekdays / weekends. If she is having the kids sleep somewhere else what can she do to stop me from doing the same.

                            Obviously this does not address the issues of support and all the other things that go along with me getting my own place, but isn't the whole point of me continuing to live in the same house to be with the kids in "their" house.

                            Thanks

                            Just re-read this.
                            Am ashamed to admit it just occured to me you`re asking the wrong thing.

                            Slipped past me the first time, dangit.

                            The ONLY reason you should stay in the same houseéresidence is so that the children know no different and have the full benefit of both parents`love full time.

                            altruism at it`s best

                            Comment

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