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Does Spousal Support automatically go up when Child Support ends?

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  • #61
    Considering the wording in your agreement, this is what I would do:

    Stop paying the lawyer and deal with it directly

    Send an email to your ex stating that there are TWO issues you both need to resolve. First one is child support. Second is whether there is a material change when child support stops warranting increase in spousal.

    Explain the legal definition of child of the marriage and how your children no longer qualify. Ask her to therefore agree that child support ends for them.

    State if she does not agree that child support stops, you will be asking for the full costs of all the resolution steps for that specific issue

    Comment


    • #62
      A quick question on definition of "child of marriage". I have found a couple and none seem to address whether they are children of the marriage if they live at home with their parents because they don't earn enough to live outside the home plus help pay for their education costs if they decide to re-enter schooling. Thoughts?

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      • #63
        @KW_Divorced.....

        It's this simple when you look at the case law WRT "child of the marriage" and "adult child".

        Right off the bat...."they have to be in FULL-TIME" education or "Have some disability" at age 18 onwards to be able to continue collecting child support.

        If they don't fall into the 2 scenarios above....they (the 18yr old) can go get a job or apply for EI.....they are officially an adult. Judges has stipulated in many cases the "full-time education" point, part-time study means they can get a job, no different that any parent working full time and going to school in the evening part-time which some adults do

        As articulated in the 1995 British Columbia decision of Ciardullo v. Ciardullo:[1]
        The test is one of dependency. Merely ... attending school or college is not sufficient to bring the child within the definition of "child of the marriage". It must be shown the child is unable by reason of attending school or college to withdraw from the charge of the parents or to obtain the necessaries of life.
        In Felbel v Felbel the father brought an application to terminate support for his three adult children and the mother effectively failed to provide any disclosure about the children’s


        [1] Ciardullo v. Ciardullo, 1995 CarswellBC 612, 15 R.F.L. (4th) 121 (BC.S.C.).

        education, expenses or income. Little J. granted the application and terminated support, commenting:[1]
        When it comes to support for adult children, the court must first consider whether they are ‘children of the marriage’ …. Are they really ‘unable to withdraw’ from the charge of a parent? This involves an inquiry not simply limited to whether the child is in school, but also how much they are in school. On occasion it can also involve consideration of the child's income and assets. Some ‘children’ earn significant income or have significant assets in their own right.


        [1] [2007] M.J. 217 (Q.B. Fam. Div.), at para 5.




        KW....all this came from this word doc by a university professor

        http://www.cfla.on.ca/cfla/docs/lega...ildSupport.doc
        Last edited by FWB; 01-23-2014, 10:52 AM.

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        • #64
          Legally your children are adults. They no longer meet the definition of children of the marriage. You do not have a legal obligation to support them anymore

          It is wonderful that you are letting them live parttime with you. You are being a loving and supportive father. But you aren't legally obligated to pay their mother child support any longer. Any monies you may choose to provide to them from now on is exactly that - your choice.

          In fact, now that they are working and living part-time with your ex, there is case law where judges expect them to pay rent and that amount is counted as income in spousal support calculations

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          • #65
            OK thanks all FWB and Winter. I have received enough info and will begin my next steps. This board is a wonderful source of support and I only hope I can return the favour to others some day.

            Comment


            • #66
              OK thanks all FWB and Winter.
              Don't mention it Squire

              In fact, now that they are working and living part-time with your ex, there is case law where judges expect them to pay rent and that amount is counted as income in spousal support calculations
              Ain't that something...that is bound to not sit well with some SS Payees If you happen to come across that case law, post it here to help the SS Payors

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              • #67
                Parents aren't really doing their children any favours by allowing them to live rent-free when they are working adults. Gail Vaz-Oxlade talks about this. They get used to a level of disposable income and lifestyle that is unrealistic and unsustainable. Much better to collect rent so that they learn how to manage their money appropriately. If the parent wants and is able to, gift the money you collected back to them at a later date to be used as a downpayment towards their own house.

                There is actually a lot of case law addressing adult children paying rent. It is not the primary issue in a case but is often included as an issue to be decided when imputing income to the recipient of spousal support.

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                • #68
                  Kind of unrelated but I find it amazing the amount of parents who don't require their kids to get some kind of part time job at the age of 14. There are doing a complete disservice to their kids regarding a whole gambit of issues including but not limited to

                  - Financial Responsibility
                  - Budgeting
                  - Personal responsibility
                  - Social Skills
                  - Job experience

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                  • #69
                    Parents aren't really doing their children any favours by allowing them to live rent-free when they are working adults.
                    Well...they sort of are when you look at it, enabling potential future entitlement seekers.

                    I mean we have some stories on here from users...typical example is the user "trapped", whose excess baggage spouse sits in the basement all day and plays video games whilst she works, as well as look after his kids from a previous relationship.

                    Then there are those whose adult son's are still living at home...I mean when will this son eventually be able to start paying their own bills (if at all)?

                    Much better to collect rent so that they learn how to manage their money appropriately.
                    Yes..but some will just tell you that is crazy talk. Some are "friends" with their kids, and some are just afraid of being on their own, so encourage the kid(s) to stay home

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Winter View Post
                      Parents aren't really doing their children any favours by allowing them to live rent-free when they are working adults. Gail Vaz-Oxlade talks about this. They get used to a level of disposable income and lifestyle that is unrealistic and unsustainable. Much better to collect rent so that they learn how to manage their money appropriately. If the parent wants and is able to, gift the money you collected back to them at a later date to be used as a downpayment towards their own house.
                      She's just brilliant. If adult children are living at their parents' home to save money for a downpayment for their own house, of course they should contribute to expenses, even if the parents would let them live there for free. Get used to the budgeting of home expenses! The parents are ensuring that money IS saved for that goal.

                      Originally posted by Winter View Post
                      There is actually a lot of case law addressing adult children paying rent. It is not the primary issue in a case but is often included as an issue to be decided when imputing income to the recipient of spousal support.
                      All the adults in a household should contribute to its expenses, no matter how they are related (including spouses!). So when the kids are grown up but still live at home, treating them as a child by not doing this doesn't let them mature properly. I don't know that it should be treated as income for the parental homeowner in the same way that a renter's payments would be, but definitely the lowered expenses should be taken into account when determining the need for spousal support.

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                      • #71
                        I have certainly been guilty of this with our adult son. I suppose part of me feels guilty that his father and I divorced. I realize the mistake I have made by letting son freeload for way too long. Interesting that when I was still married, our son did indeed pay rent. He got off the hook,so-to-speak, as soon as the divorce commenced.

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                        • #72
                          It not just the free living with some of these scallywags that still live at home past the age of 19...it's the fact that SOME don't even do chores, some which include their own bloody laundry for crying out loud, helping in the kitchen, in the garden, shoveling the driveway etc

                          Parents will definitely reap what they sow...perhaps it's a reflection of how they were brought up? So it's a cycle that carries on down the generations

                          Personally...I'll have be ashamed to take GFs back to my folks place past the age of 19. You see some of these people poncing around in their flashy cars, meanwhile they are sponging off mum& dad / BF/GF

                          Comment

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