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Advice on CS for adult children

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  • #31
    Quick question on this topic: do you think it matters whether the kids go away for school or live at home with regards to whether child support is still applicable and would most likely still be ordered by a judge? The reason I ask is because my ex is hellbent on getting a clause in our currently-being-negotiated new agreement whereby he would be off the hook for support if the kids leave home for school. He seems to think that it would not be ordered in this case because the kids have left home, therefore why would I still need support; however, from what I read online it seems like support is obligated no matter where the child lives, if they are in school full time. What do you think, is he right about that?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
      Quick question on this topic: do you think it matters whether the kids go away for school or live at home with regards to whether child support is still applicable and would most likely still be ordered by a judge? The reason I ask is because my ex is hellbent on getting a clause in our currently-being-negotiated new agreement whereby he would be off the hook for support if the kids leave home for school. He seems to think that it would not be ordered in this case because the kids have left home, therefore why would I still need support; however, from what I read online it seems like support is obligated no matter where the child lives, if they are in school full time. What do you think, is he right about that?
      I think you should likely move this question to a new topic, so the original OP is not sidetracked. You know how that feels.
      Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

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      • #33
        Kimmanny: You do have a written agreement where you agree to pay "1/2 of your daughter's expenses even though she was not in school"? This agreement was as of October 2016 correct? You also agreed to pay 1/2 of your daughter's 6,000.00 loan correct?
        Last edited by arabian; 09-08-2017, 07:58 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
          I think you should likely move this question to a new topic, so the original OP is not sidetracked. You know how that feels.


          Sure no problem! And yes I do know how that feels. [emoji6]


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Kimmanny View Post
            I never said I was sure of anything, I'm just saying I'm an optimistic person and no one wants to listen to advice from people who laugh at them like they are stupid. It's a rude way to communicate with anyone.


            You are the one who said you've been successful in court and have an arrogant attitude about being right. Im laughing because post secondary and cs for post secondary are the greyest areas of family law. Its rude to insinuate to a poster who answered your question that they are wrong when all I did was answer your question with information from a lawyer who has run a successful practice for 20 years and information from months of searches on canlii. But hey, you've won several successful judgements (on other matters) so why bother listening to the peanut gallery.

            Ange, it doesn't matter whats in your agreement. Courts rule that cs is payable the four months of the year kids are at home from school and then expenses are split 1/3 to the kid and then proportionate share of net cost between parents. This includes tuition, books, supplies/equipment, residence and food. If kid stays home, transportation to school is included but cs is paid in full. Your ex can have whatever he wants written in the agreement, you can still go after him for his share of the cost and cs if applicable.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Kimmanny View Post
              I never said I was sure of anything, I'm just saying I'm an optimistic person and no one wants to listen to advice from people who laugh at them like they are stupid. It's a rude way to communicate with anyone.
              I have to say OP, in defence of Rockscan, she is giving you some extremely straight-up advice. I've also pm'd another member who is in almost the same scenario as you [and Rockscan, and I], so hopefully he chimes in as well.

              But Rockscan's advice should not be discounted - Like her, I too believe without a doubt you'll be ordered to pay cs. [And I also have an adult child, in post-secondary]. The only real discussion, again imo, is likely what proportion of s7-tuition you'll be paying, in addition to table cs.
              Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

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              • #37
                Arabian: Yes I had an agreement in writing to pay half of my daughter's dental expenses when she was not in school (which was pretty costly) and I did offer to give my ex 100 per month plus pay half of my daughter's osap loan in court, but she declined. I don't care that I have to pay for my daughter, I just don't believe it's fair that I would cover half of her education and all of her living expenses and her mother pays nothing. Plus my daughter earns anywhere from 500-700 per month. Her mother should be expected to contribute too.

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                • #38
                  Mcdreamy: I don't discount anyone's advice if they give it to me properly, but I don't have the patience to deal with people laughing at my comment like I'm stupid. It's super easy to give an opinion or advice without the bitterness and attitude. If you want me to respect your opinion, don't be so rude about it, that was my point.

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                  • #39
                    And rockscan, I've

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                    • #40
                      And rockscan, I've never said I was right and you were wrong, I'm saying that every case is different and facts and evidence always matter. I've not once been arrogant about anything. I've only stated my experience and what I've read. I'm not stupid and I don't like people treating me as such. You already said it's a grey area which means: every case is different based on facts and what the parents can agree on.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kimmanny View Post
                        And rockscan, I've never said I was right and you were wrong, I'm saying that every case is different and facts and evidence always matter. I've not once been arrogant about anything. I've only stated my experience and what I've read. I'm not stupid and I don't like people treating me as such. You already said it's a grey area which means: every case is different based on facts and what the parents can agree on.


                        Is your daughter staying with mom during school or residence? As pointed out already if she is living away CS is reduced, however if she is living with Mom CS is still payable because you won't be paying for housing costs at school. You either pay for residence at the school or you pay for residence at Mom's... you also only pay your share of post secondary expenses, which I believe would be your share of the 2/3 cost, since your daughter would be responsible for her 1/3.

                        If I remember correctly this is only a one year program? Seems to be a lot of court over 8 months of school?


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                        • #42
                          She is living with her mom, but if her mom would agree with me paying half the education costs plus the 100 per month then I wouldn't have to pay the full Cs. Her mom just expects my daughter to pay all of her own and wants me to pay all of her living expenses which if I pay table amount would be way more than she would need. You would think that the amount my daughter makes now and the fact that she worked for a whole year before that, that it would count for something towards her support. And yes, by the time the motion is heard, she will likely already be done school, so it seems a waste of time. After that, my daughter would no longer be entitled, so I'm not sure how that works.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Kimmanny View Post
                            She is living with her mom, but if her mom would agree with me paying half the education costs plus the 100 per month then I wouldn't have to pay the full Cs.
                            Obviously she isn't going to agree, and no amount of advice we can provide will be able to change that. Put not paying full CS out of your mind.

                            What is the difference in the two amounts anyway? You paying $100 a month instead of full table CS, and you paying 50% of total education costs, instead of your section7 % share of 2/3 of it? What exactly are you fighting over? If it's only a couple hundred dollars, it can hardly be worth it.

                            Originally posted by Kimmanny View Post
                            Her mom just expects my daughter to pay all of her own and wants me to pay all of her living expenses which if I pay table amount would be way more than she would need.
                            So, the mother's scenario is
                            • Daughter pays 100% of education costs
                            • Mother provides the home to live in
                            • Father pays table CS

                            Your scenario is
                            • Daughter pays 50% of education costs
                            • Father pays 50% of education costs and $100 a month towards living expenses
                            • Mother provides the home to live in and pays the remainder of the living expenses

                            Legal precedent is generally
                            • Daughter pays 33% of education costs
                            • Father pays table CS and his s7ratio of 67% of education costs
                            • Mother provides the home to live in and her s7ratio of 67% of education costs

                            So it sounds like the mother just wants the scenario that gets her the most money, and you want the scenario where you are willing to pay, as long as most of it goes directly to your daughter instead of her mother.

                            Also, there may be stuff going on that you are not aware of. I think you mentioned that the mother charged the daughter $200 a month while she was doing her working year? Is that continuing during her education year? That would certainly affect things. And what if you proposed $200 a month instead of sticking to $100, since they've set a precedent for that amount? Without knowing what your table CS is, it's hard for us to judge how reasonable your offer of $100 is.

                            Sit down with a calculator, and your knowledge of your income, the mother's income and the daughter's education expenses, and work out what each scenario would cost each person. Are the differences worth fighting over in court?

                            Originally posted by Kimmanny View Post
                            You would think that the amount my daughter makes now and the fact that she worked for a whole year before that, that it would count for something towards her support. And yes, by the time the motion is heard, she will likely already be done school, so it seems a waste of time. After that, my daughter would no longer be entitled, so I'm not sure how that works.
                            Think of your daughter's year of working as her covering her own living and discretionary expenses and saving for her future (as self-supporting, independent people do).

                            Now she is returning to the education phase of things, and is expected to devote the majority of her attention to that, instead of being self-supporting. Her parents are supposed to resume paying for her living expenses and help cover part of her education costs.

                            Honestly, I think you should sit down as a trio, since your daughter is an adult now and presumably understands money, and hash out an agreement that's a compromise between scenario one and two. THEN, if the mother is still inflexible, you can decide if going to court and getting scenario three imposed is worth it.

                            Does your ex understand that if she takes it to court to fight for that full CS, she'll very likely be on the hook for a portion of the tuition that she's evidently trying to avoid? You may be able to use that to pressure her.

                            I'd be tempted to just give all the money directly to the daughter, and let her and her mother fight over its distribution for living expenses. This is only because she's already had that year of no longer being a child of the marriage - I wouldn't recommend that for a kid going right to university from high school. Make it clear to all (in writing) that you consider this your supportive contribution to your adult daughter during this education phase of her life, to be spend how she feels is necessary for her needs, which may include paying some form of room and board to her mother. You are not willing to get into a large argument about the quanta of that room and board - it is between them.

                            That way, in case your ex gets a lawyer involved and you end up in court after all, you've at least got documentation and receipts for money you've paid, and a demonstration that you are willing to financially contribute to your daughter's education. It will be especially effective if it's an amount greater than your table CS and s7 share of tuition.

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                            • #44
                              Sitting down as a trio is unlikely to ever be an option. My daughter doesn't want to hear a single word to do with court and she has never been the one asking for money. She gets angry with me for even mentioning it.

                              I don't think her mother realizes she would have to pay her portion of the education expenses though and she wouldn't know that she couldn't be forced to pay them. The last time we went to court she lost and paid a ton of money to costs having a lawyer. This time she is self represented.

                              Before all of this began, we had a written agreement that she would withdraw support and that I would pay for half of my daughter's dental expenses. We agreed that if there were any other expenses we could discuss it when they came up and not waste time with court applications. If she knew that my daughter was planning to start school she could have talked to me about it way before hand instead of sending me court papers after she had already started school and I knew nothing. She did not contact me once before hand to discuss anything.

                              I would love to pay any monies straight to my daughter if I could, even if it was full cs plus expenses. I just don't think that the ex deserves any money for herself if she wants to be selfish and not contribute to our daughter at all. I'm not sure if she's charging her room or board now though.

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                              • #45
                                But what does a court do if the application is not heard until after my daughter is done school and is back to work full-time? At that point she would not be eligible for the support anymore under the FLA. (My ex and I were never married)

                                Also, her mother has a higher income than I do, so her share of education expenses would be higher than mine.

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