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50/50 Equal Parenting: The Debate

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  • Youre saying your not exposing child to adukt conflict but You're recording your child. You've exposed him/her to the conflict already. What is a child supposed to think when they are recorded for court purposes. Judges frown on that behaviour. Please stop exposing your child to the adult conflict. The notes can be used against you to show that you discuss those things with your child.

    So what thats how it was for the last 8 years? How old was the child. How old is the child now. Is the OCL involved? What would the children say to an independent child social worker ?

    Youre saying your in favour of shared custody 50/50 but you're not agreeing to it. I'm sorry but you are pushing and pulling at the same time.

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    • Triton I think you're getting a tad whipped up here about nothing. The mother stated that she had recorded her children. She got feedback from people on the forum, including myself, that should the matter end up in court many judges do not favor this sort of approach. I believe someone posted some relevant case law to this effect. She isn't doing the tape recording on an ongoing basis. Don't try to make this more than what it is.

      Secondly she states that she supports the concept for 50/50 in some circumstances. Her situation, and personal experiences, set her apart from those who seek 50/50 immediately after separation. Her situation is different as the father is considering 50/50 8 years later. This request correlates with his CS arrears and refusal to adjust/increase CS as is required by law. Nothing more.

      She has clearly stated that her children are doing well academically and socially at the present time under the current 70/30 split. The poster has not indicated any involvement of CAS or OCL. The current state of affairs is simply that her lawyer is communicating (by letter) with his lawyer. Nothing more.

      The mother has retained all of the children's notebooks. This is not unusual for a mother (or father to do). I still have school notebooks from my adult son's days in school. I think what she was trying to say that the children's notebooks show her involvement in the children's schoolwork and show little to no involvement on the part of the father. Nothing more, nothing less.

      The mother is not exposing her children to adult conflict. She is keeping her children from adult conflict. She is trying to deal with a very rude ex who makes derogatory comments about her to the children - a problem that many adults go through.

      She simply wants some advice on how to handle her current situation.



      The mother simply started her threads asking us for feedback on her concerns/fears going forward and requested ideas on how to best handle her ex's demand for change of custody. This is the first he has indicated he wants a change in 8 years (since their current agreement on consent was drawn up).

      Comment


      • and as we've said, agree to 50/50 and settle it. You take the advice or you go to court for the next couple of years and wait in line for a trial to prove your case to collect that child support.

        Somewhere along the way the OCL may get involved and hear what the children have to say. They may very well wish to spend more time with dad.

        It just doesn't make any sense why she supports 50/50 but does not agree to it. These are all her words. Not mine. Her own written posts.

        Status quo is her argument but I question her true reasons. She has very clearly written her subjective opinion the father just wants more time to lower his child support and so she doesn't want that to happen. She wants maximum child support. It's not rocket science.
        Last edited by trinton; 01-12-2017, 01:57 AM.

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        • Originally posted by trinton View Post
          It just doesn't make any sense why she supports 50/50 but does not agree to it. These are all her words. Not mine. Her own written posts.
          So what? Why take it so personally that you have to post over and over again the same thing? Why do you care what her reasons are?

          LF, how is it you can post so frequently and at such great length (and with case law) during the day when you are supposed to be working with children?? There aren't enough breaks and lunches for all your posts. Wasting those tax dollars??

          Ange, my advice is to just ignore them now. You've made your points in a clear, conscise way. You have not responded to their beating a dead horse with anger or accusations. It is okay to step back and not use your day to defend your life and your choices.

          Finally, in my case, ex never one time requested 50/50. Never. He and his high priced lawyer were quite happy to have him be a EOW Dad.

          I wonder what is more common, parents who try to keep the children so they can keep C/S or parents who don't see their children often or enough, demonstrating very little commitment to the day to day needs of raising a child?

          My vote is for the parents who are quite content to be a weekend parent. I see far more of that.

          Comment


          • I am going to agree that 50-50 always should be the starting point but it's also not always what parents want nor is it always in the best interest of the children.

            My husband is an eow Dad... this is due to him relocating for work and then his wife emailing him and breaking off a 7 year marriage. He couldn't go back to the town they lived in as he had no job and no place to live. He also didn't fight to have his kids moved to his new area because he would have lost that battle. He would have loved to have 50-50 parenting over the years and we do and have seen the kids far more than just EOW but in his situation at the time, it was best Mom had the kids because he was also couch surfing at the beginning.

            That being said, I don't believe what happens in the early years should be the be all end all. In his situation his son who is 11.5 years old has expressed for the past couple years the desire to move in with us. It has now got to the point where he is really pushing this. The unfortunate part is that we know there will be a battle and a good chance we will lose the fight for his son because there hasn't really been a material change in circumstances. That's the part I don't agree with. An agreement made 7 years ago shouldn't dictate the future. Kids should have a say and agreement should be able to reviewed as kids age and start to have voices.




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            • It says more about the character of a poster engaged in ad hominem attacks in a ‘debate’ thread, then it does the character of their target.
              Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

              Comment


              • I made the mistake of referencing Ange's case in the beginning. I did so because I felt that so many cases are similar to hers.

                The purpose of the thread was to hear the opinion of folks who deny (or are being denied) an equal relationship with their children...and the "criteria" they use to do so. Where's the abuse? Where's the big change in routine? Where's the addictions? All I see is warring couples who dislike each other...most of them almost at 50/50 anyways.

                The illusion is that I'm a father's rights guy ... the truth is that so far 99% of folks who are denying equal relationships have pretty much no grounds to do so (based on the facts they present here).

                We have parents who keep 6 binders of "bad parenting notes" over 8 years, claim psychological abuse, claim that the other parent is unable to properly care for their child, etc....yet has been on an almost equal regime for nearly a decade. All this terrible parenting and no concerns to authorities or any type of intervention for her children?

                The only time she pulls out these binders is when he asks for a bit more time for an equal relationship?

                Ange may be good at avoiding the important q's here...but she can't ignore a judge.

                We have a poster who records her children .. asking them what they talked about or heard at dad's .. then tells us they don't know what's going on.

                Trinton may be emotional, but it's because he's going through it as we speak as well. These sorts of things strike a chord sometimes.

                No...50/50 doesn't work for everybody, but this case certainly doesn't meet the criteria to stop that little increase in time to be an equal relationship. Put the money towards the kids education instead. I don't get it. Kids are thriving when he has 35% .. but not 40% or 50%?

                Anyhow, I have no issue not discussing Ange's case here...all she has to do is not reply again here. Of course she can feel free to, but if she does we will continue to expose the holes in her story, case and decisions to FIGHT in court rather than allow an equal relationship with dad (who almost has one anyways).
                Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-12-2017, 09:34 AM.

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                • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                  I made the mistake of referencing Ange's case in the beginning. I did so because I felt that so many cases are similar to hers.

                  The purpose of the thread was to hear the opinion of folks who deny (or are being denied) an equal relationship with their children...and the "criteria" they use to do so. Where's the abuse? Where's the big change in routine? Where's the addictions? All I see is warring couples who dislike each other...most of them almost at 50/50 anyways.

                  The illusion is that I'm a father's rights guy ... the truth is that so far 99% of folks who are denying equal relationships have pretty much no grounds to do so (based on the facts they present here).

                  We have parents who keep 6 binders of "bad parenting notes" over 8 years, claim psychological abuse, claim that the other parent is unable to properly care for their child, etc....yet has been on an almost equal regime for nearly a decade. All this terrible parenting and no concerns to authorities or any type of intervention for her children?

                  The only time she pulls out these binders is when he asks for a bit more time for an equal relationship?

                  Ange may be good at avoiding the important q's here...but she can't ignore a judge.

                  We have a poster who records her children .. asking them what they talked about or heard at dad's .. then tells us they don't know what's going on.

                  Trinton may be emotional, but it's because he's going through it as we speak as well. These sorts of things strike a chord sometimes.

                  No...50/50 doesn't work for everybody, but this case certainly doesn't meet the criteria to stop that little increase in time to be an equal relationship. Put the money towards the kids education instead. I don't get it. Kids are thriving when he has 35% .. but not 40% or 50%?

                  Anyhow, I have no issue not discussing Ange's case here...all she has to do is not reply again here. Of course she can feel free to, but if she does we will continue to expose the holes in her story, case and decisions to FIGHT in court rather than allow an equal relationship with dad (who almost has one anyways).
                  I will have to agree with SadandTired that I have made my points clearly. I honestly feel that (as one poster put it) there is a wee bit of "projection" going on with regards to my case. I get that there are a lot of people on here who have been through a huge fight for custody. False allegations even. That doesn't mean you should see me in the same way. You don't know my ex and you really don't know the entire story. As for exposing "holes" - expose away! As Arabian pointed out, I have been very consistent in my many posts thus far because I rely on recalling the facts and the truth. You are actually getting a lot of the facts wrong when you post about me...for example your above statement that I asked my children what went on at dad's. Nope - never happened. I hit record when she was voluntarily telling me about something that bothered her that Dad said about me. But you don't want to see it that way. Or Triton's insistence that I am asking questions to figure out how to avoid paying child support - not true either. Paint me however you'd like! I am good with it. I also don't OWE anyone the answers to the questions you persistently ask me. I came here to learn things and ask questions. I came here to hopefully have my posts taken for the truth. I will back out of this conversation now but I respectfully ask you (LF32) to please leave my name out of your discussions as I don't feel you can accurately talk about my case, or leave emotion out of it.
                  Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                    I am going to agree that 50-50 always should be the starting point but it's also not always what parents want nor is it always in the best interest of the children.

                    My husband is an eow Dad... this is due to him relocating for work and then his wife emailing him and breaking off a 7 year marriage. He couldn't go back to the town they lived in as he had no job and no place to live. He also didn't fight to have his kids moved to his new area because he would have lost that battle. He would have loved to have 50-50 parenting over the years and we do and have seen the kids far more than just EOW but in his situation at the time, it was best Mom had the kids because he was also couch surfing at the beginning.

                    That being said, I don't believe what happens in the early years should be the be all end all. In his situation his son who is 11.5 years old has expressed for the past couple years the desire to move in with us. It has now got to the point where he is really pushing this. The unfortunate part is that we know there will be a battle and a good chance we will lose the fight for his son because there hasn't really been a material change in circumstances. That's the part I don't agree with. An agreement made 7 years ago shouldn't dictate the future. Kids should have a say and agreement should be able to reviewed as kids age and start to have voices.




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                    Childhood lasts a very short time. You should consider a move to where the child lives or dad should set up a second home and change parenting arrangement to 50/50.


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                    • Originally posted by len14 View Post
                      Childhood lasts a very short time. You should consider a move to where the child lives or dad should set up a second home and change parenting arrangement to 50/50.


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                      In a perfect world yes that would work but we don't live in a perfect world. There are no jobs around the kids area and in fact mom works nights at a factory and the kids spend the nights at their Nanas house. If we had the option of moving to that area and providing a life for the children then that's what we would do but not all small towns offer opportunities. I would actually say the kids have been far better off and had more in life than they would have had Dad given up his job and moved back to the area.

                      I will also point out that even intact families don't have both parents home at times. My own father travelled for years for work and was home on weekends if we were lucky. I work with many dads now that live 3-4 hours away and are away all week and return on weekends. Do you suppose they should quit their jobs and move back to their home to be with their children every day?


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                      • My father worked on the road two weeks at a time throughout my child hood. We saw him about four days a month unless he was stationed at head office for longer. 50:50 never would have worked and since he paid cs as my mother was a stay at home mom, there was no chance.

                        For my partner, his ex bad mouthed him to their small community and he was confronted by people everywhere he went. He was suffering ptsd and on the verge of a mental breakdown. Yes he was wrong to not go for it but as his parents tell me, he was suicidal at that point. He never would have survived a CAS/OCL investigation even if he had the money to fight it.

                        50:50 should be a starting point with teeth to prevent one parent from pulling stunts to get what they want. Parents who unable physically and emotionally at the time of divorce should also be provided with a reprieve to get help and then a custody review following that. If my partner had the ability to get help and not be faced with bs from people in the community, he would have been able to get 50:50 and not have to kill himself to get there.

                        How does it serve the kids when one parent feels they are better off to their kids dead than alive?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                          So what? Why take it so personally that you have to post over and over again the same thing? Why do you care what her reasons are?

                          LF, how is it you can post so frequently and at such great length (and with case law) during the day when you are supposed to be working with children?? There aren't enough breaks and lunches for all your posts. Wasting those tax dollars??

                          Ange, my advice is to just ignore them now. You've made your points in a clear, conscise way. You have not responded to their beating a dead horse with anger or accusations. It is okay to step back and not use your day to defend your life and your choices.

                          Finally, in my case, ex never one time requested 50/50. Never. He and his high priced lawyer were quite happy to have him be a EOW Dad.

                          I wonder what is more common, parents who try to keep the children so they can keep C/S or parents who don't see their children often or enough, demonstrating very little commitment to the day to day needs of raising a child?

                          My vote is for the parents who are quite content to be a weekend parent. I see far more of that.

                          Evident that you didn't choose well in a mate or a father for your children. There are many 'so-called' men that fall in this bucket but then there are men who want to raise their children and who are being denied because of archaic law and precedents.

                          If your ex could afford a 'high priced lawyer' he probably was the higher earner and realized quite quickly how impossible continuing a demanding career would be; paying offset child support and having to care for the children 50/50. Chances are, he probably can't afford both financially, physically and emotionally to have his children 50/50 with our current family law set up.

                          As I said before, every adult should support themselves (you marry a husband not a daddy) and half the expenses for the children they choose to have; shared should be automatic and CS shouldn't exist in 50/50.

                          Then and only then will you be able to judge a parent.

                          I would challenge you SadandTired to offer 50/50 and No CS exchange and if he still refuses having his children more then he truly is a POS.




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                          • Originally posted by len14 View Post
                            Evident that you didn't choose well in a mate or a father for your children. There are many 'so-called' men that fall in this bucket but then there are men who want to raise their children and who are being denied because of archaic law and precedents.

                            If your ex could afford a 'high priced lawyer' he probably was the higher earner and realized quite quickly how impossible continuing a demanding career would be; paying offset child support and having to care for the children 50/50. Chances are, he probably can't afford both financially, physically and emotionally to have his children 50/50 with our current family law set up.

                            As I said before, every adult should support themselves (you marry a husband not a daddy) and half the expenses for the children they choose to have; shared should be automatic and CS shouldn't exist in 50/50.

                            Then and only then will you be able to judge a parent.

                            I would challenge you SadandTired to offer 50/50 and No CS exchange and if he still refuses having his children more then he truly is a POS.




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                            I love the "obviously I didn't choose well in a mate/father". What an assumption!!

                            Ex is a highly motivated and driven person. Educated and successful from a good family.

                            He isn't a POS, just a career driven man who takes his self essteem and self worth from his job. He is a specialized physician making $420,000 a year. He values his job. He loves his kids. He isn't abusive to anyone ever. He just loves being a high powered doctor in a well respected position, happy to just see his kids on his days off.

                            He has more than enough to hire a nanny for a 12 and 15 year old who can care for themselves most times. Additionally, it was HIM who moved just over an hour away to be the head of his department in a hospital. He made himself EOW. There was no opportunity for me to offer 50:50.
                            Last edited by SadAndTired; 01-12-2017, 11:23 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by len14 View Post
                              I am mother who has a 50/50 shared parenting plan and it can really work well if you want it to. It is a choice that I have to make every day, but my two kids are happy, healthy emotionally and loved by so many people. I focus on the quality of our time together not the quantity of time.

                              Before I divorced there father was a part-time dad. Once we separated he asked for 50/50, I was skeptical bc he had rarely changed a diaper let alone stay up all night with a sick child. But let's be real, it's not as if we had to 'try-out' or 'convince' someone that we were good enough to be our kids mom, I supported my ex in the transition and my children feel just as secure, safe and loved by their father as they are with me.
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                              Thank you for this Len. This illustrates that we are not simply male posters "projecting" our negative experiences, allegations, etc on this thread. You are a mother and advocating for 50/50.

                              My ex tried to pull the "he can't care for the child", "bad parent", etc. I also had wonky hours as a group home shift worker.

                              Once we achieved 50/50 ALL the conflict stopped. Ex realized that I could do everything she said I couldn't...and more. She realizes now that 50/50 was the best choice she ever could have made. Our communication has since improved...every aspect has improved and no further court was needed (putting money in the bank instead of lawyers pockets).

                              Exact same situation with a friend of mine. The mom was denying 50/50. A very acrimonious situation, lots of allegations and downplaying of his parenting abilities from mom. She gave 50/50 a try and now their entire arrangement has improved.

                              This is what a number of posters are trying to get across. sometimes 50/50 brings the best out in people...especially the kids. Gatekeeping and self-entitlement need to be set aside sometimes and something different needs to be tried.

                              And for god sakes, if you're writing "bad parenting" notes, fear your child is being psychologically harmed, to the point you're recording your child for evidence .....don't wait 8 years at almost 50/50 to do something about it .... not in kid's best interests and the judge will lay down the hammer on that point.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                                I love the "obviously I didn't choose well in a mate/father". What an assumption!!

                                Ex is a highly motivated and driven person. Educated and successful from a good family.

                                He isn't a POS, just a career driven man who takes his self essteem and self worth from his job. He is a specialized physician making $420,000 a year. He values his job. He loves his kids. He isn't abusive to anyone ever. He just loves being a high powered doctor in a well respected position, happy to just see his kids on his days off.

                                He has more than enough to hire a nanny for a 12 and 15 year old who can care for themselves most times. Additionally, it was HIM who moved just over an hour away to be the head of his department in a hospital. He made himself EOW. There was no opportunity for me to offer 50:50.


                                Your situation is extremely unique... firstly, less than 1% of the population make that kind of money and even less thank that have the brain power to be a specialized physician and have the drive to be the head of a department where they can do greater good.

                                Focusing on the majority of dad's out there who aren't as remarkably gifted.


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