Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

50/50 Equal Parenting: The Debate

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • LF32 and Trinton - I do not believe that Ange's situation is anywhere remotely similar to the nightmares the the two of you have respectively endured in the past.

    1. The "binders" she refers to, I believe, are merely the collection of homework books are they not? Parents sign these things acknowledging work assigned etc. If I am incorrect please do enlighten me. I interpreted her reference to these as a way of emphasis on father not having any involvement in child's academics.
    2. S h e and the F a t h e r are only at the stage where one lawyer has sent the other a letter. Nobody is going to court yet. The two have plenty of time to work out their issues before that happens. Both of you know that at the early stages of case conferences these things are usually dealt with and out-of-court agreements made. If the poster refers to "court" and "judge" in her posts, she is merely looking ahead at "what could have" scenerios.
    3. Sad and Tired's situation was entirely different from your situations (as she has pointed out).

    I maintain that not everyone wants or seeks a 50/50 custody arrangement.

    I think it is often easy to get access/parenting time mixed up with custody. Perhaps that is where this conversation has gone sideways?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by arabian View Post
      LF32 and Trinton - I do not believe that Ange's situation is anywhere remotely similar to the nightmares the the two of you have respectively endured in the past.
      Yea, I know they're way different. It felt cathartic to talk about it though. Like many, we just don't think much of story makes sense....she seems to be be putting her foot in her mouth a lot.

      1. The "binders" she refers to, I believe, are merely the collection of homework books are they not?
      She did that too. But the binder is of 8 years of documenting "bad parenting" and alleged "HARM" to her kids (that she nothing about)

      Here's what she wrote:

      Guess what? I have a documented journal full of many examples of bad parenting calls. I have an organized binder as well where I keep all the emails and have written my notes attached to them.
      Both of you know that at the early stages of case conferences these things are usually dealt with and out-of-court agreements made.
      Yea, we're trying to save her the brutality of court over a few measly days of parenting time. The reasoning for denying it is..well...nonsense really. In my opinion anyways.

      Sad and Tired's situation was entirely different from your situations (as she has pointed out).
      Yea, I pointed that out too. Totally different. BUT, dad left a note for S&T and the kid accidentally read it. S&T brought up "abuse" and "CAS" over that....like the father meant to leave it for the kid. I was pointing out that during the emotional stages of a separation, CAS and ABUSE shouldn't come out of anyone's mouth unless its real.

      maintain that not everyone wants or seeks a 50/50 custody arrangement.
      Definitely not. You're right. I have said this from my VERY first post Arabian. In this particular case, I do't see why not though.

      I think it is often easy to get access/parenting time mixed up with custody. Perhaps that is where this conversation has gone sideways?
      I'm strictly talking about equal time with each parent.

      Arabain .. you're a smart cookie and I know you'll answer.

      If your child was being psychologically harmed for 8 years under an almost equal parenting regime. Would you sit back and observe the harm and document all that time? Or would you do something about it? You're a tough lady .. I think I already know.

      In fact I ask this to all the parents out there. Would you watch your children be harmed for 8 years and not do anything about it? In my view the question is a rhetorical one. But you never know.

      (Refer to permalink 156 on pg # 16)
      Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-12-2017, 07:11 PM.

      Comment


      • I haven’t seen a debate yet, has anyone else seen one?

        (which is surprising, given what the OP has indicated is his career choice).
        Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
          I haven’t seen a debate yet, has anyone else seen one?

          (which is surprising, given what the OP has indicated is his career choice).
          eww ... Zing!! Mocking me? Other mods......is that jab okay?

          It's okay. You're cool McDreamy. How in the world can you not see a debate?

          So, in case you missed it we're debating the criteria parents use to deny a 50/50 equal relationship. Given the amount of views and opinions ... I'd say it's going quite well. Please don't look for a reason to close another thread.

          Comment


          • meh, you jumped the shark on Page 2, when you intentionally brought in another poster to the thread, who wasn't part of the 'debate'. See how that works?

            If you really want to be a lawyer when you grow up, as you say you do, you can’t be jumping the shark.
            Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
              meh, you jumped the shark on Page 2, when you intentionally brought in another poster to the thread, who wasn't part of the 'debate'. See how that works?

              If you really want to be a lawyer when you grow up, as you say you do, you can’t be jumping the shark.
              But she posted on a public forum and its relevant to the thread.

              Are we not allowed to bring up any cases from canlii or other sources on the internet either? Can we not reference things on the world wide web now if they're relevant?

              Please explain so that I'm informed.

              (By the way...she's contributed quite a bit here also. I asked her to stop...then we would. She didn't).
              Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-12-2017, 07:50 PM.

              Comment


              • Which response would you like me to reply to? There are several now.
                Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                  If you really want to be a lawyer when you grow up, as you say you do, you can’t be jumping the shark.
                  No gimmicks here. Sorry if you feel the quality of the thread is low. The views say otherwise.

                  When I grow up? Can you go a few sentences without attacks? It would be much appreciated.

                  I'm not attacking you. I would appreciate the same in return.

                  Comment


                  • Again, which one of your responses would you like me to reply to? I'd like to be clear.
                    Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                      Kind of belligerent, sexist thing to blurt out wouldn't you say?

                      "Man"splaining? Please try not to insult me suing my gender. I find it offensive. How feminist of you to come up with such a colorful term. I notice Stripes that you have a tendancy to always bring gender up in threads.



                      I recall being ripped apart in my threads by you & S&T. I was told I was lying, that my ex was probably right, etc. Pot calling the tea kettle black? I'm male though so I guess rules change.
                      Ange's explaining her situation to "us", providing very few details and not answering any q's ... then she want no speculations. lol

                      She won't be able to hide from a judge, calling him an angry father who's speculative. Judge won't go for that.

                      Perhaps you can "girl"splain to me: (since you want to make this about gender)

                      Why did she keep 6 binders of bad parenting over 8 years, complaining of psychological harm to her kids, etc. She didn't contact any authorities nor try to reduce any access.

                      You going to throw that under the rug too? Hmm.

                      Yet she still allowed (almost an equal relationship) for all that time. Only when dad wants a bit more time does his monstrosities and mysterious binders full of notes come up. Perhaps I'll ask you then Stripes. You know why? Does it make sense to you? Is that responsible parenting if the kids are in such an unhealthy environment?

                      If it was a father on here doing/saying all this you'd have a different opinion on the matter, he'd be in shit for the recording, the 6 binders over 8 years, etc. For me...it's genderless.


                      Never been about gender for me. I don't use words like "Mansplaining" .. I'm guessing it means men cant explain things as good as women? Wow...lol ... me caveman!:

                      BTW .. I've tried to switch topics several times. She keeps coming back. Have you told her to ignore the thread yet? Because I won't be ignoring my own thread on a debate I'm very interested in....sorry.

                      If she wants to discuss things she can keep coming back. If she decides to stop contributing to this thread, we can stop discussing her case.


                      Question: if you feel I have provided "few details" as stated above, then how could you possibly be equipped to comment on what's best in my case?


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                      Comment


                      • I would be silly to allow this thread to be derailed.

                        Let's continue,

                        I will outline some points that support my stance on 50/50.

                        Although shared parenting provides a number of benefits to children, it is equal parenting that is the optimal arrangement for most children of divorce. This includes children caught in the middle of high parental conflict. Recent research has shown that conflict is reduced in equal parenting households, from the perspective of both children (Fabricius, 2011) and parents (Bauserman, 2012), and in cases where inter-parental conflict is not reduced, equal parenting seems to ameliorate most of the negative effects of such conflict on children (Fabricius, 2011).
                        Attachment:

                        All parents strive for their children to develop healthy attachments. The more healthy attachments chidlren have, the healthier they are in almost every aspect of development, (socio-emotionally, etc). Children require a sense of security from an early age right on through adolescence.

                        Child development experts have written that psychologically, the quality of attachment relationships is a major factor associated with the well-being of very young children. Thus some believe that the quality of parent-child relationships counts for much more than merely quantity of time that children spend with each parent after divorce. But children form close bonds with those who care for them, in their first year of life and beyond. This suggests that quantity of contact is at least as important as quality.

                        I would emphasize that quality of relationships is largely dependent on having a sufficient quantity of time to develop and nurture those primary relationships".
                        One of the grand debates. This one kind fo surprized me also. Which is more important, the quantity or quality of time spent wth the kids?

                        Quality Vs. Quantity:

                        Interestingly, many stidies showed:

                        There is a direct correlation between quantity of time and quality of parent-child relationships, as high quality relationships between parents and children are not possible without sufficient, routine time to develop and sustain a quality relationship".
                        For healthy attchments and bonds to take place:

                        would emphasize that quality of relationships is largely dependent on having a sufficient quantity of time to develop and nurture those primary relationships. Equal parental responsibility provides a context and climate for the continuation or development of high quality parent-child relationships, allowing both parents to remain authoritative, responsible, involved, attached, emotionally available, supportive, and focused on children’s day-to-day lives. Attachment bonds are formed through mutual participation in daily routines, including bedtime and waking rituals, transitions to and from school, and extracurricular and recreational activities".
                        And for the parent's who only use the term and allow "visitation"...

                        For children, primary attachment bonds are not possible within the constraints of “access” or "visitation."
                        Having more than one healthy attachment figure means that children have more individuals in their life to confide in, and be comforted by in times of anxiety, pain, etc.

                        50/50 facilitates parent's well-being:

                        This was another piece of information and study I did not know about:

                        Parent well-being is furthered with equal or shared parenting, as neither parent is threatened with the loss of his or her children (Bauserman, 2012). The highest rate of depression among adults is among parents who have a dependent child but are unable to maintain a meaningful relationship with that child."
                        Children need 2 healthy parents. ^^

                        Court: No more Winnign and losing:

                        To me, this is one of the most influential things that could ever happen. No more custody Olympics.

                        I am persuaded, by the weight of the scientific evidence, that equal parenting is a viable option to the present destructive adversarial "winner-take-all" “primary parent”divorce system, for both young and older children, and for those in high conflict as well as cooperative households".
                        Also, tons of studies to back that up.

                        "
                        Bauserman's (2012) meta-analysis of 50 studies shows that parental conflict goes down with joint custody. He found that in almost all areas of comparison, joint custody was associated with better parental adjustment rates".
                        I especially love this finding:

                        The constraints of traditional “access” relationships are well documented; closeness, warmth, and mutual understanding are elusive when parenting within the constraints of thin slices of time. Meaningful relationships are developed and sustained through emotional connectedness, and this is made possible through the emotional stability and security of meaningful (fair and equal) parenting time."
                        Studies showed that Equal Parent's had the best overall satisfaction in life:

                        Custodial or primary residential parents report the highest levels of satisfaction with parenting after divorce arrangements while non-custodial/non-residential parents report the lowest. Between these extremes lies equal parenting, where both mothers and fathers report satisfaction".
                        So much good information. I think I'll keep reading through peeer-reviewed academic journals. Very good reads.

                        Sources:
                        Bauserman, R. (2012). "A meta-analysis of parental satisfaction, adjustment, and conflict in joint custody and sole custody following divorce," Journal of Divorce and Remarriage, 53, 464-488.

                        Fabricius, W.V. et al (2011). “Parenting time, parent conflict, parent-child relationships, and children’s physical health.” In Kuehnle, K. & Drozd, L. (Eds.), Parenting Plan Evaluations: Applied Research for the Family Court. New York: Oxford University Press.
                        https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ld-attachments
                        Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-12-2017, 09:11 PM. Reason: typo's

                        Comment


                        • "(By the way...she's contributed quite a bit here also. I asked her to stop...then we would. She didn't)."

                          Now THERE is a great anti-bullying stance. If you actually are an EA as you have suggested in the past, the above is quite upsetting to consider – is this what you are teaching our children? ‘I asked her to stop, it wasn’t my fault, they made me do it’. Is the above also a peer reviewed stance?
                          Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                            I haven’t seen a debate yet, has anyone else seen one?

                            (which is surprising, given what the OP has indicated is his career choice).
                            Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                            "(By the way...she's contributed quite a bit here also. I asked her to stop...then we would. She didn't)."

                            Now THERE is a great anti-bullying stance. If you actually are an EA as you have suggested in the past, the above is quite upsetting to consider – is this what you are teaching our children? ‘I asked her to stop, it wasn’t my fault, they made me do it’. Is the above also a peer reviewed stance?
                            You're being very difficult for no good reason. You're just picking on random forum members that you don't like and bullying them. Because you feel superior to them because you are a moderator. The same analogy can be used for parents that have sole custody or a higher percentage of parenting time. They feel superior and literally dictate. They ignore the information requested from them and only ask for information they want. They are ignorant.

                            You go in other threads complaining about people staying on topic here you are completely off topic. What does your post have anything to do with 50-50 or debate? Perhaps you should be steering the discussion into a debate of 50-50, as opposed to attacking forum members. If you have something to say to them, you can always PM them.

                            I'm not a big fan of you as a moderator of this forum. Just to be clear. I am on the other hand a fan of blinkandimgone. He's a very good moderator and has been very helpful.

                            You've made comments about posters putting down other posters and how that talks more about their attitude then the person they are responding to. I don't see how this would be any different from you, you are putting down members of the forum and are now calling them unfit as parents. Just so you are aware, he was granted 50/50 access by our legal system, thank you very much. I hope you are not going to take the same position as other posters here and try to say he should not have 50/50 because his post was abusive. Please, I want to have some laughs saved for tomorrow.

                            This is an open public forum in a Country where we have a freedom of speech and expression.
                            Last edited by trinton; 01-12-2017, 09:53 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Now mocking my employment? Real Classy

                              Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
                              "(By the way...she's contributed quite a bit here also. I asked her to stop...then we would. She didn't)."

                              Now THERE is a great anti-bullying stance. If you actually are an EA as you have suggested in the past, the above is quite upsetting to consider – is this what you are teaching our children? ‘I asked her to stop, it wasn’t my fault, they made me do it’. Is the above also a peer reviewed stance?
                              Nobody made me do anything. I'm responding to posts. You can hurl more personal insults at me MCDreamy.. classy .. I'm used to it. As long as you're having fun abusing your power as a mod, it's all good with me. You won't execute your plan of luring me down to your level though. I teach our children to be the bigger person when people say things like you are now.

                              Thank you for your insightful input on this debate thread McDreamy. It's really opened our eyes.

                              To move on,

                              Another interesting study showed that:

                              A 2013 study with implications for parents in British Columbia and across Canada found that children of divorced parents have the best outcome when they can spend equal time with both parents. The study shows that shared parenting usually works to minimize abuse and contention between parents even when the parents disagree. A parent who has minimal time with a child generally seems to have reduced input into a child's life. Even a Supreme Court judge referred to the parent with less time as an 'interested bystander."
                              When my situation went 50/50, it's as if the sun came out. We just started co parenting very amicably and easily. She was extremely high conflict and we weren't getting a long before that, then suddenly we were fine. It's like equal parenting relieved all this pressure.
                              http://www.laughlinlaw.ca/blog/2014/...ing-time.shtml
                              Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-12-2017, 09:55 PM.

                              Comment


                              • All of the relevant information above would have made an excellent start to this discussion. Sad you had to wait 15 pages to make it relevant and impartial.

                                Centering out one person only causes lurkers to not want to offer their information, comments and experiences to the conversation for fear the same will happen to them. Why would anyone want to join in this conversation when all it seems that you want to do is attack them?

                                McDreamy isn't attacking his job. He says he is an EA. This isn't the first time he has demonstrated qualities inappropriate to a Educational Assistant. Go read his posts to fin the comment about someone with disabilities.

                                Amazing how LF can turn it around to factual information after pages of pot stirring. This thread gets plenty of views because of the comedic factor. People love a good train wreck.

                                And by the way, I believe blinkandiamgone is a woman.
                                Last edited by SadAndTired; 01-12-2017, 10:01 PM.

                                Comment

                                Our Divorce Forums
                                Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                                Working...
                                X