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  • Originally posted by arabian View Post
    I believe in a previous post you stated your ex had suggested OCL assessment. Why not agree on this with your ex and have his lawyer suggest it (as you are self-represented) to the court?
    The request was for a Lawyer to represent the children. Is that statement in FORM17A only in regards to a lawyer presenting them, or also for the assessment.

    My ex is self represented as well.

    I just feel like an OCL assessment won't unveil anything based on what most people have stated here.

    I am ready to settle on 60/40 Sole custody but he refuses. Joint custody won't work based on our inability to communicate.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Links17 View Post
      I paid for it by myself - my ex is useless.
      No, I am not going to help you
      Not all women are like your ex.

      Comment


      • I am not saying your ex is a great parent, but I wouldn't agree to give sole custody to the other parent either. ( If I were in a custody dispute myself)

        Just think carefully about what sole custody vs joint custody would really mean to the kids lives and if ex having joint custody would really be that detrimental to the kids. I'm not saying it is or isn't, just that you need to really think about whether your ex having joint will actually be bad for the kids or simply make your life easier.
        Last edited by PeacefulMoments; 02-03-2016, 02:49 PM. Reason: added comment for clarity

        Comment


        • Perhaps, but it's still the truth.

          The police weren't there, and since the ex manipulates the children, and tells them what to say before the police arrive (I SEE him do it, and have him recorded doing it, which the police refused to listen to). When the police arrive, the whole situation is painted the way he wants.

          I have recordings of him (while waiting for police) stating that I swung at him, him calling someone and making up a story to have a "witness".

          It's insane, and he's swaying the police with his lies.

          Whether or not the judge likes me for telling the truth is a road I have no choice but to cross. His entire case is built on lies, and he's already contradicted himself in documents he has submitted.

          My claims have been consistent for months, and I have email communications to prove it.

          If this goes to trial, I'm sure he will exposed for the liar he is, therefore hopefully, taking away any credibility he has.
          Look, I'm trying to help you here but I'm starting to see that you're not really going to listen.

          Step 1: I don't care how perfect you think you are...try to grasp this. Your version of reality is YOUR version...your version of perception is YOUR version...your version of the truth is YOUR version. That is not the same thing as it being the actual truth...its the truth AS YOU SEE IT.

          You are going to present your version, your ex will present his version and the judge will come up with a version all on his/her own.

          If you are belligerent and unreasonable about your version being the only real one...against not just your ex but against the cops, you are going to be seen in a way that is probably not in your favour.

          Step 2: Try to be more humble.

          You've made some serious missteps here and your best strategy is to acknowledge them, learn from them and explain how you're going to move forward from them.

          For instance, you should be talking about how you haven't done very well at keeping the kids out of conflict and that you will do better in the future. You should not be playing recordings of the kids in the conflict. That might actually piss a judge off. And by the way, you're not likely to listen to it anyway unless it meets evidence rules and they consider it relevant.

          I have recordings of him (while waiting for police) stating that I swung at him, him calling someone and making up a story to have a "witness".
          These recordings are useless.

          It's insane, and he's swaying the police with his lies.
          What's insane is that you're going to try to discredit the police department. Go that route and expect extreme backfire. You need to get a lawyer. Self-repping is a really bad idea for you.

          Whether or not the judge likes me for telling the truth is a road I have no choice but to cross. His entire case is built on lies, and he's already contradicted himself in documents he has submitted.
          Don't worry about his documents. Worry about yours. Judges are extremely objective, highly intelligent and have seen this all before. They know his affidavit may be full of crap...you don't need to counter it. You need to provide the reason why you are a great parent, how you're learning from past mistakes and why you're going to keep your kids out of conflict.

          Look at this from a judge's point of view. He's going to see two pinhead parents who keep dragging their young kids into major conflict...often involving the police. Its not your ex's perception you need to defend against, but the one the judge is going to default to. If you keep showing in court that you're argumentative, high conflict and not agreeable to a fair 50/50 settlement...AND, there's police reports not in your favour...how do you think that's going to go?

          You honestly think you're going to be in court all day explaining some crap minutia against the police? Seriously? They aren't even going to listen to you.

          My ex was told to shut the hell up in court on at least 8 occasions. And if you start getting belligerent over a judge, you're in for it...they do not like that at all.

          My claims have been consistent for months, and I have email communications to prove it.
          Email of what though? You two have conflict together...big deal. You have zero basis by which to garner an unfair custody arrangement.

          If this goes to trial, I'm sure he will exposed for the liar he is, therefore hopefully, taking away any credibility he has.
          lol. Family court isn't like what you see on TV's law and order. You don't get it.

          I am ready to settle on 60/40 Sole custody but he refuses. Joint custody won't work based on our inability to communicate.
          You do realize that 60/40 custody rulings are seen as money grabs right?

          So what you're saying is that you can't communicate with your ex 50% of the time but you can 40% of the time?

          That makes zero sense and you have absolutely no standing to make the request.

          You need to get a lawyer, you should be supplying an affidavit conceeding the police evidence and showing how you're moving forward from that and you should be requesting 50/50 access.

          If you continue down the road you're going, I have a serious feeling you're not only going to be spending a whole lot of money but also that you're not going to like the outcome.

          Bottom line, you are not listening and you don't get it.
          Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 02-03-2016, 03:02 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
            Look, I'm trying to help you here but I'm starting to see that you're not really going to listen.

            Step 1: I don't care how perfect you think you are...try to grasp this. Your version of reality is YOUR version...your version of perception is YOUR version...your version of the truth is YOUR version. That is not the same thing as it being the actual truth...its the truth AS YOU SEE IT.

            You are going to present your version, your ex will present his version and the judge will come up with a version all on his/her own.

            If you are belligerent and unreasonable about your version being the only real one...against not just your ex but against the cops, you are going to be seen in a way that is probably not in your favour.

            Step 2: Try to be more humble.

            You've made some serious missteps here and your best strategy is to acknowledge them, learn from them and explain how you're going to move forward from them.

            For instance, you should be talking about how you haven't done very well at keeping the kids out of conflict and that you will do better in the future. You should not be playing recordings of the kids in the conflict. That might actually piss a judge off. And by the way, you're not likely to listen to it anyway unless it meets evidence rules and they consider it relevant.



            These recordings are useless.



            What's insane is that you're going to try to discredit the police department. Go that route and expect extreme backfire. You need to get a lawyer. Self-repping is a really bad idea for you.



            Don't worry about his documents. Worry about yours. Judges are extremely objective, highly intelligent and have seen this all before. They know his affidavit may be full of crap...you don't need to counter it. You need to provide the reason why you are a great parent, how you're learning from past mistakes and why you're going to keep your kids out of conflict.

            Look at this from a judge's point of view. He's going to see two pinhead parents who keep dragging their young kids into major conflict...often involving the police. Its not your ex's perception you need to defend against, but the one the judge is going to default to. If you keep showing in court that you're argumentative, high conflict and not agreeable to a fair 50/50 settlement...AND, there's police reports not in your favour...how do you think that's going to go?

            You honestly think you're going to be in court all day explaining some crap minutia against the police? Seriously? They aren't even going to listen to you.

            My ex was told to shut the hell up in court on at least 8 occasions. And if you start getting belligerent over a judge, you're in for it...they do not like that at all.



            Email of what though? You two have conflict together...big deal. You have zero basis by which to garner an unfair custody arrangement.



            lol. Family court isn't like what you see on TV's law and order. You don't get it.



            You do realize that 60/40 custody rulings are seen as money grabs right?

            So what you're saying is that you can't communicate with your ex 50% of the time but you can 40% of the time?

            That makes zero sense and you have absolutely no standing to make the request.

            You need to get a lawyer, you should be supplying an affidavit conceeding the police evidence and showing how you're moving forward from that and you should be requesting 50/50 access. You go down this road, I have a serious feeling you're not only going to be spending a whole lot of money but also that you're not going to like the outcome.

            Bottom line, you are not listening and you don't get it.
            60/40 is money grab?

            40% is considered equal time sharing, and results in the same Child support payments as 50/50, so I can't see how anyone would see that as a money grab...

            Access has nothing to do with how much I agree with him, that's custody. And that's the reason why Joint custody won't work.

            Comment


            • Your primary concerns have been his behavior while the children are in his care, and some school absences. Sole decision making vs joint decision making will not affect those issues.

              Custody will affect larger decisions like educational and medical final decisions. sole vs joint will not force ex to be a "better" parent. I have not seen anything you posted which speaks to issues that having sole custody instead of joint would address.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PeacefulMoments View Post
                Your primary concerns have been his behavior while the children are in his care, and some school absences. Sole decision making vs joint decision making will not affect those issues.

                They will affect larger decisions like educational and medical final decisions. sole vs joint will not force ex to be a "better" parent. I have not seen anything you posted which speaks to issues that having sole custody instead of joint would address.
                Well, based on what everyone is saying there's nothing I can do about his behavior or how he chooses to parent the children.

                Either way, looks like it is what it is. Suck it up.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PeacefulMoments View Post
                  Your primary concerns have been his behavior while the children are in his care, and some school absences. Sole decision making vs joint decision making will not affect those issues.

                  Custody will affect larger decisions like educational and medical final decisions. sole vs joint will not force ex to be a "better" parent. I have not seen anything you posted which speaks to issues that having sole custody instead of joint would address.
                  I haven't posted it, because there are many things I haven't posted, but we're currently in a dispute which is not going anywhere about where to enroll our (other) child in school. We currently don't have a primary address for the children. And we can't agree.

                  How is awarding Joint custody to parents like that benefiting the children? We'll just end up in court.

                  Comment


                  • Well, with joint custody, there is usually a dispute resolution process built into the order. Example, must go to mediation first prior to going to court.

                    The two of you need to start looking at how decisions will benefit the children and not how to get even with each other for your anger towards each other. I know this is not easy, but there is a saying that you have to love your kids more than you hate your ex.

                    Some how the two of you must ratchet down the conflict for the kids sakes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PeacefulMoments View Post
                      Well, with joint custody, there is usually a dispute resolution process built into the order. Example, must go to mediation first prior to going to court.

                      The two of you need to start looking at how decisions will benefit the children and not how to get even with each other for your anger towards each other. I know this is not easy, but there is a saying that you have to love your kids more than you hate your ex.

                      Some how the two of you must ratchet down the conflict for the kids sakes.
                      No dispute here. Everything you've stated is dead on.

                      But that's easier said than done.

                      And I could say I've known him for X number of years, and he has always been controlling, and never bent on anything. But I'm sure he'd say some of those things against me.

                      I went to mediation for 4 hours, let's just say I wish it were open, because it was a complete farce, and I would have loved to submit their report.

                      Comment


                      • 60/40 is money grab?

                        40% is considered equal time sharing, and results in the same Child support payments as 50/50, so I can't see how anyone would see that as a money grab...
                        Because you're getting very close to a parental split which is financially inequitable for one party...offset vs full-table cs.

                        I went to mediation for 4 hours, let's just say I wish it were open, because it was a complete farce, and I would have loved to submit their report.
                        So the mediation was a farse and the police reports are wrong...

                        This is what I meant about patterns. Be careful going into court with themes like this.

                        Comment


                        • How is awarding Joint custody to parents like that benefiting the children? We'll just end up in court.
                          Because joint custody isn't just about the fact two adults can't stop their petty squabbling.

                          Its about the fact that courts want the presence of both adults and both of their opinions to be considered in the raising of the children they have together unless there's some very compelling reason not to do that.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by selfrep00 View Post
                            Perhaps an OCL assessment is beneficial to exposing the truth.
                            Think again. I wouldn't recommend you involve the OCL unless there is a very strong reason to. So many people go to the OCL thinking they will get to tell their story. Not the case.

                            See: CanLII - 2011 ONSC 6451 (CanLII)

                            I would also advise you to review a judge's (very respected one too!) view of "the truth": http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-mossip-13753/

                            What is sad for the Court is the amount of time, money, energy, and emotional angst, that these parties have engaged in to convince themselves, the other party, the children, their friends, the professionals involved, and now the Court, that their truth is the “real truth”; that their version of events is what actually happened.
                            Read the thread and the attached case law... Don't look for the truth. Look to resolving issues and settlement.
                            Last edited by Tayken; 02-03-2016, 03:55 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              Think again. I wouldn't recommend you involve the OCL unless there is a very strong reason to. So many people go to the OCL thinking they will get to tell their story. Not the case.

                              See: CanLII - 2011 ONSC 6451 (CanLII)

                              I would also advise you to review a judge's (very respected one too!) view of "the truth": http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-mossip-13753/



                              Read the thread and the attached case law... Don't look for the truth. Look to resolving issues and settlement.
                              Thanks, I'll read through these. That's why I'm here.

                              Comment

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