Parental Alienation / Using the children as tools

[standing on the sidelines]

He tells his kids to hurt people and break things when they're angry? C'mon.

If it's having such an impact why didn't CAS do anything about it when they were involved?

by doing those things in front of the kids is basically like telling them its an acceptable behaviour. You don't have to actually tell someone in words.

[selfrep00]

You sound as though you are afraid of OCL involvement. You state that your ex suggested OCL. You also state you care about your children. Why then, would you not accept assistance (free) from OCL? If your ex is the monster you purport him to be then OCL are the people you WANT to speak to.

I am not "afraid" of OCL at all. From what I hear it costs $6000. If it's free it's another story.

But I expect him to be on his best behavior when OCL is involved and I don't expect them to uncover anything that would sway the case.

If the general consensus is that what he is doing is "normal" after separation, which is what everyone has been telling me (the police, CAS, people on here), then that's clearly the general consensus, and it's ok for him to abuse me, destroy property and denigrate me to the children.

There's nothing I can do, and I should just suck it up, and shut up about it already.

I got it.

[selfrep00]

by doing those things in front of the kids is basically like telling them its an acceptable behaviour. You don't have to actually tell someone in words.

Thanks. I didn't think I'd have to quantify that, or be taken so literally.

Nobody wants these things to happen with their children.

[arabian]

I am not "afraid" of OCL at all. From what I hear it costs $6000. If it's free it's another story.

But I expect him to be on his best behavior when OCL is involved and I don't expect them to uncover anything that would sway the case.

If the general consensus is that what he is doing is "normal" after separation, which is what everyone has been telling me (the police, CAS, people on here), then that's clearly the general consensus, and it's ok for him to abuse me, destroy property and denigrate me to the children.

There's nothing I can do, and I should just suck it up, and shut up about it already.

I got it.

I've never heard of anyone paying for OCL. Why don't you phone and find out? https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov....sh/family/ocl/

Seems like your "buddies" haven't been giving you the correct information. If I had problems that you have the OCL would have been the first place to call. Actually if you do eventually get in front of a judge the judge will likely order OCL anyhow.

[standing on the sidelines]

Thanks. I didn't think I'd have to quantify that, or be taken so literally.

Nobody wants these things to happen with their children.

You are doing the best that you can.

When your ex shows up at your parents place or wherever he shouldn't be, ask him (or whoever asks him) to leave and warn him that if he shows up again he will be charged with trespassing. Then if he ignores that call the police. Keep doing it until he finally gets the hint. You, your partner and your parents have a right to live in peace.

Your ex is being a dickhead. Unfortunately the courts or police cannot change him, but they can help how you have to deal with him. The only advice I can give is to remember that eventually this will all be in the past. When he rants and raves just smile at him and say "have a good day". He doesn't get the reaction he wants and that will mess with his head lol. He wants to see he still has control over you but if you show what he says doesn't matter then hopefully he will stop. You have to treat him like you would treat any bully, no reaction.

[selfrep00]

I've never heard of anyone paying for OCL. Why don't you phone and find out? https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov....sh/family/ocl/

Seems like your "buddies" haven't been giving you the correct information. If I had problems that you have the OCL would have been the first place to call. Actually if you do eventually get in front of a judge the judge will likely order OCL anyhow.

This thread
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...sessors-14200/

Is actually giving me comfort in thinking this might be beneficial to enlighten a neutral judge in the facts of the situation.

Perhaps an OCL assessment is beneficial to exposing the truth.

[PeacefulMoments]

Remember that a part of custody determination is the willingness of the parent to involve and promote the other parent's role in the children's lives and the OCL clinician if there is OCL involvement will look for this.

This was a big part of why my D was recommended for sole custody and majority access. She gave concrete examples of how she would promote dad's involvement and acknowledge whatever parenting strengths he did have. She also acknowledged the part she played in their drama and how she learned from it and would handle things better going forward.

Her ex refused to acknowledge that he played any part in their conflict and sought to minimize her role.

In the end, even with this very strong endorsement, they ended up with 50/50 joint after mediation.

[selfrep00]

You are doing the best that you can.

When your ex shows up at your parents place or wherever he shouldn't be, ask him (or whoever asks him) to leave and warn him that if he shows up again he will be charged with trespassing. Then if he ignores that call the police. Keep doing it until he finally gets the hint. You, your partner and your parents have a right to live in peace.

Your ex is being a dickhead. Unfortunately the courts or police cannot change him, but they can help how you have to deal with him. The only advice I can give is to remember that eventually this will all be in the past. When he rants and raves just smile at him and say "have a good day". He doesn't get the reaction he wants and that will mess with his head lol. He wants to see he still has control over you but if you show what he says doesn't matter then hopefully he will stop. You have to treat him like you would treat any bully, no reaction.

Thanks, and You're right. My new partner has said the same thing to me from the start "Don't engage with him.", because that always resulted in no progress and conflict between us. The problem is, throughout I was just learning about the type of system we are working with, and I thought ignoring him would result in me being "un-cooperative" and failing to co-parent, which he used against me as yet another form of control.

I'm down to basically no communication, but I left the phone line open... On the weekend he called me early in the morning and woke me and my partner up, I didn't answer, and he kept calling. I got worried that my children were in danger, checked the voicemails and it was him accusing me of stealing kids paint from the children that he bought them.... 2 different voice mails with threats that he's going to get me for theft, and he did this in front of the children (said so in the voicemail).

It's just crazy, and I don't want to block the phone line in case there is an actual emergency, but I also should deserve my sanity.

[Pursuinghappiness]

I am not "afraid" of OCL at all. From what I hear it costs $6000. If it's free it's another story.

Where on earth did you get this information?

Private assessments can cost a lot of money but they're done on consent. I had a private assessment that cost around 7-8k but I agreed to the cost. OCL doesn't cost anything but you have no guarantee that they'll see grounds to take your case either.

OCL is requested by the litigants, approved for follow-up by a judge and then you send in an intake form and they either approve you or they don't.

You could have googled this information ages ago. Do you have a lawyer? Because if you're making these types of serious allegations and they didn't already request OCL involvement, you should probably be getting another lawyer.

Unless your lawyer didn't request involvement due to the police reports against you.

Family Law and Child Protection - Ministry of the Attorney General

I want my children not to think it's ok to commit violent acts.
I want my children to be free of people speaking badly about me to them.
I want my children to be exposed to positive morals.

I literally rolled my eyes when I read this.

Look, people are trying to assist you here because walking into court with your level of expectation is going to be crushing for you.

When the children are in your care, you should model EXACTLY the type of behavior you want them to aspire to...that's your job as a parent.

In time, your children will emulate the behavior that is the most rational.

But the reality is based on the sage wisdom of the many people on this forum who've been years in custody disputes in the court system (including me), you don't really have a case for inequitable division of parental rights.

So should the case be that you and your ex have some form of shared custody and shared parenting time, you need to stop thinking you have ANY control over what he does during his time. You don't. Trust me on this...you cannot dictate to him what he does, says or practices. He is the children's father and he will decide that entirely without your input. Your wants don't factor into his parental time.

If you go into court with this kind of lofty nonsense, I'm telling you, you're not going to do well.

As for this one:

I want to be free of harassment.

You have every right to this and it will be enabled when you try your best to stop engaging your ex.

Obviously if he's harassing you at work, you have zero control over that but if I were you, I'd do everything in my power to eliminate any and all unnecessary communication with him in the hopes that this nonsense would stop.

[standing on the sidelines]

Where on earth did you get this information?

Private assessments can cost a lot of money but they're done on consent. I had a private assessment that cost around 7-8k but I agreed to the cost. OCL doesn't cost anything but you have no guarantee that they'll see grounds to take your case either.

OCL is requested by the litigants, approved for follow-up by a judge and then you send in an intake form and they either approve you or they don't.

You could have googled this information ages ago. Do you have a lawyer? Because if you're making these types of serious allegations and they didn't already request OCL involvement, you should probably be getting another lawyer.

Unless your lawyer didn't request involvement due to the police reports against you.

Family Law and Child Protection - Ministry of the Attorney General



I literally rolled my eyes when I read this.

Look, people are trying to assist you here because walking into court with your level of expectation is going to be crushing for you.

When the children are in your care, you should model EXACTLY the type of behavior you want them to aspire to...that's your job as a parent.

In time, your children will emulate the behavior that is the most rational.

But the reality is based on the sage wisdom of the many people on this forum who've been years in custody disputes in the court system (including me), you don't really have a case for inequitable division of parental rights.

So should the case be that you and your ex have some form of shared custody and shared parenting time, you need to stop thinking you have ANY control over what he does during his time. You don't. Trust me on this...you cannot dictate to him what he does, says or practices. He is the children's father and he will decide that entirely without your input. Your wants don't factor into his parental time.

If you go into court with this kind of lofty nonsense, I'm telling you, you're not going to do well.

As for this one:



You have every right to this and it will be enabled when you try your best to stop engaging your ex.

Obviously if he's harassing you at work, you have zero control over that but if I were you, I'd do everything in my power to eliminate any and all unnecessary communication with him in the hopes that this nonsense would stop.

actually she has lots of control over that. If he has no reason to be there (other then harass her) he has no right to be there and can be ordered by the company to stop coming onto their premises. If he did have a reason to be there then it is up to the company to enforce the bill that came in a few years back to stop the harassment.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...13034660,d.amc

[rockscan]

Wilson II: The Revenge

I was leaning toward this...

[selfrep00]

Where on earth did you get this information?

Private assessments can cost a lot of money but they're done on consent. I had a private assessment that cost around 7-8k but I agreed to the cost. OCL doesn't cost anything but you have no guarantee that they'll see grounds to take your case either.

OCL is requested by the litigants, approved for follow-up by a judge and then you send in an intake form and they either approve you or they don't.

You could have googled this information ages ago. Do you have a lawyer? Because if you're making these types of serious allegations and they didn't already request OCL involvement, you should probably be getting another lawyer.

Unless your lawyer didn't request involvement due to the police reports against you.

Family Law and Child Protection - Ministry of the Attorney General



I literally rolled my eyes when I read this.

Look, people are trying to assist you here because walking into court with your level of expectation is going to be crushing for you.

When the children are in your care, you should model EXACTLY the type of behavior you want them to aspire to...that's your job as a parent.

In time, your children will emulate the behavior that is the most rational.

But the reality is based on the sage wisdom of the many people on this forum who've been years in custody disputes in the court system (including me), you don't really have a case for inequitable division of parental rights.

So should the case be that you and your ex have some form of shared custody and shared parenting time, you need to stop thinking you have ANY control over what he does during his time. You don't. Trust me on this...you cannot dictate to him what he does, says or practices. He is the children's father and he will decide that entirely without your input. Your wants don't factor into his parental time.

If you go into court with this kind of lofty nonsense, I'm telling you, you're not going to do well.

As for this one:



You have every right to this and it will be enabled when you try your best to stop engaging your ex.

Obviously if he's harassing you at work, you have zero control over that but if I were you, I'd do everything in my power to eliminate any and all unnecessary communication with him in the hopes that this nonsense would stop.

Check my last post. He called back 2 more times after.

"I'm down to basically no communication, but I left the phone line open... On the weekend he called me early in the morning and woke me and my partner up, I didn't answer, and he kept calling. I got worried that my children were in danger, checked the voicemails and it was him accusing me of stealing kids paint from the children that he bought them.... 2 different voice mails with threats that he's going to get me for theft, and he did this in front of the children (said so in the voicemail).

It's just crazy, and I don't want to block the phone line in case there is an actual emergency, but I also should deserve my sanity."

[standing on the sidelines]

I really hope that you kept the recordings he left on your machine. That helps you with the restraining order.

[selfrep00]

I really hope that you kept the recordings he left on your machine. That helps you with the restraining order.

I did.

It's pretty crazy that over 3 months after I move out of the matrimonial home, he calls me because he misplaced something and accuses me of theft.

What's next, he's going to call me because he can't find the cheese grater?

[standing on the sidelines]

I did.

It's pretty crazy that over 3 months after I move out of the matrimonial home, he calls me because he misplaced something and accuses me of theft.

What's next, he's going to call me because he can't find the cheese grater?

good for you. You get enough of those recordings then your request for a restraining order will have more teeth. He is a bit of an idiot leaving messages that he knows are being recorded by a machine.