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Opting out: Women can have an abortion, some men say they should have a choice over p

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  • #91
    That we are in such an extreme situation that theoretically one person's refusal to take a pill the day after an encounter can result in a 200,000$+ obligation for somebody else.
    Men are responsible to protect themselves during sex. If you can't figure out how to put a condom over your penis, you shouldn't be engaging in sexual activity anyway cause you're a f'ing idiot.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Links17 View Post
      That we are in such an extreme situation that theoretically one person's refusal to take a pill the day after an encounter can result in a 200,000$+ obligation for somebody else. Not always, not everytime but that is a very likely possibility.
      The difference is that the $200k obligation is viewed as going to the woman, and not to the child. So really, we're not talking about the unfairness of abortion choices at all; we're now on the frustrating topic of lack of accountability for how a recipient uses the CS payments.

      Automatic 50-50 custody, imputing of incomes and offset CS is the fairest, most appropriate response to a one-night-stand conceived child. Either way, both parents should be held responsible for the life they created.

      Due to biological differences, a man's decision point to avoid this responsibility is limited to the pre-conception stage, while a woman has a bit more leeway.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Mess View Post
        My friend needs a blood transfusion. So we're going to hook you up to him by a tube and you can pull him around with you all day for the next nine months until he's better.

        We're not giving you any choice in the matter.
        I don't believe I've indicated forcing a pregnancy to term was a valid option. I'm just talking about the subject. I'm certainly not saying these things should be forced on a woman.

        Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
        I think the bottom line is that there really is no such thing as "casual sex."

        You need to protect yourself and know who you're sleeping with or take responsibility for the serious risks you're exposing yourself to.
        You`ve mentioned the condom angle a few times.

        You are aware, I hope, that condoms are not 100%, right?
        Neither is hormonal therapy (the pill).

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Rioe View Post
          The difference is that the $200k obligation is viewed as going to the woman, and not to the child. So really, we're not talking about the unfairness of abortion choices at all; we're now on the frustrating topic of lack of accountability for how a recipient uses the CS payments.
          However, it has been pointed out that the child is not a legal entity worthy of 'the best interests of the child' until it is born.

          That seems to be splitting hairs when speaking of a $200k lifetime obligation, at least to me.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
            However, it has been pointed out that the child is not a legal entity worthy of 'the best interests of the child' until it is born.

            That seems to be splitting hairs when speaking of a $200k lifetime obligation, at least to me.

            Agreed, whether to child or woman or whatever it doesnt really matter in this context (its downright devious if a woman does it for her own benefit). What matters is that that some people can be dragged into potentially easily mitigatable situations because of the "Its my body axiom".

            I am sure we'll have supreme court cases where a couple agreed that they did not want children and that the woman would undergo an abortion if pregnant but she changed her mind and the man will sue for it.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              Rioe - You are accurate and concise.

              Money is normally what everything comes down to.

              LOL!

              yep.

              Money, or.....
              (drum-roll, please!)

              Sex!!

              ...too funny

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              • #97
                Originally posted by arabian View Post
                I believe abortions have a place.

                1. Rape
                2. Incest
                3. When mother has been exposed to or taken a substance which would render fetus not viable.
                4. encephalitic, etc.
                5. When mother's life is at risk

                I do not believe abortion should be used as a birth-control measure for casual sex.
                So if accidental pregnancy happened, whether parents ready/willing or not (for a number of reasons) they MUST have a child? I respectfully disagree.

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                • #98
                  No I don't think they "must" have a child, I respect the option of choice, but hope people would consider adoption before abortion. Many wonderful people want to adopt and give a child a good home. I don't understand why adoption isn't considered more often. Maybe if a couple who have an unwanted pregnancy, went through childbirth and gave the child up for adoption, they will think twice about having unprotected sex again. A grow-up, in-your-face lesson that would likely impact them (rightfully so) for the rest of their lives.

                  Adoption is one of the least selfish things a person can do.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                    What about a situation where an accidental pregnancy does happen, the woman wants an abortion, but the man doesn't... is it fair to say that the woman gets to make all the decisions regarding this? Yes it is their body, but they also knew full well what could happen if they had sex. It is not equality, it is women having all the rights.

                    I personally do not believe in abortion as a solution. All abortion does is give women a free way out. I had a friend in college who had 3 boys, however between each of those boys she had an abortion and then while in college she had a fling with a much younger man and ended up pregnant and had another abortion. So in total she had three abortions, but not once did she think of having her tubes tied or protect herself from pregnancy.

                    The Dad's in those situations did even have a chance to say yes or no, it was never discussed with them. To me, that is wrong.

                    I don't think this will ever change, but I do think that if a man or woman wants to sign away their parental rights they should have that option. Women have children every day without knowing who the father is or knowing and deciding not to tell the father and then just offer the baby up for adoption.

                    Part of me agrees with this article, as the woman is just as much to blame for the pregnancy as the man.
                    I suprisingly agree. I found this article interesting, as I have never considered this before. As crazy as it sounds, I think the father should have the right during the pregnancy to decide if he wishes to be a parent. I think he should have the right to decide if he wishes to support the child. It would be equivalent a decision to give the child up for adoption. It would absolve him of all parental obligations but also all parental rights. This may actually be preferable to some females in some cases.

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                    • I'm not going to wade into the larger debate as I feel it is a moot point. Women will always have the right to choose. I agree that both people need to be prepared for the possibility of a child before having sex... even with protection. If there is an unintended pregnancy it ultimately comes down to the woman to decide if the pregnancy continues or not, regardless of any wishes or feelings of the other party. Some may not consider this right or just but I cannot conceive of a future where this changes or should change.

                      I will however put forward a situation where the line could potentially be blurred.

                      What if a woman purposely gets pregnant when the man doesn't want to have a child? There are several ways to do this willfully ceasing birth control, putting holes in condoms etc. I had a friend who found his (soon to be ex-) GF tuning a condom inside out in an attempt to get pregnant.

                      Where does a man's responsibility fall in these cases? Should this be considered sexual assault? Should a man be able to ask to have a pregnancy from this type of situation terminated?
                      Last edited by SingingDad; 11-18-2013, 06:28 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SingingDad View Post
                        I had a friend who found his (soon to be ex-) GF tuning a condom inside out in an attempt to get pregnant.

                        Where does a man's responsibility fall in these cases? Should this be considered sexual assault? Should a man be able to ask to have a pregnancy from this type of situation terminated?
                        Maybe the man should abstain from having sex with a woman who is soon going to be his "ex" ?

                        I think this is where an individual has to weight the pros and cons of "casual sex" and realize that a nanosecond of pleasure can very well mean a lifetime of responsibility for a child you may not want.

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                        • There was a fairly well-known case in the states about a doctor and his g/f. He didn't want kids and made this known. There relationship was faltering.

                          She gave him a blow-job one day (as their relationship was ending). Once he was done, she went to the bathroom, spat into a cup and used that sperm to impregnate herself. Once she gave birth, she sued for C/S and won. He tried to argue his sperm was stolen, but she said, and the judge agreed, that it was a "gift" or something like that once released. And that it is in the best interests of the child to be supported.

                          However, I think he sued her for something in return (trauma or mental anguish) and he won as well.

                          While there are more cases like this coming out, they are still super rare. But instances like this, I am torn. Intercourse was not the cause of the pregnancy and it was another parties unilateral decision to use another persons sperm for something the man never intended it to be used for. In cases like this, I feel the mom should have to go it alone if the father chooses (to be an idiot and) not to be involved.

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                          • I recall watching a soap opera that had a story line something like that. In the soap the female entrapped the guy who happened to be a billionaire and everyone lived happily ever after.

                            But then you know how it usually goes.... if you dip your wick something may stick!

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                            • One of the things sports agents tell their sports star clients is that you never leave the condom you used in the hotel room garbage, etc. They've had a couple of cases where its been alleged that women they pick up and bring back to hotel room rooms have stolen the condoms out of garbage cans after sex to impregnate themselves and get hefty CS payments.

                              Again, there's no such thing as casual sex.

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                              • Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                                When science develops enough that men can be impregnated by a woman, have to carry a fetus for 40 weeks and give birth, then I agree they should have the same biological rights over their own bodies that women have. Until that time, there is a difference based on a very significant gender-specific, biological distinction.
                                I haven't read all the posts as there are too many, but that is hog wash.
                                Equality is only equality if it is for all.

                                In Canada a woman can carry a baby into a hospital and leave the child their and not be asked any questions. They are no longer on the hook for Child support.

                                A man doesn't have the same option. That is inequality.

                                I had to fight everything including the kitchen sink to maintain access with our children. That I love more than anything in the world, that is inequality.
                                Last edited by involveddad75; 11-18-2013, 04:01 PM.

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