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  • Stopping Spousal Support

    I realize every case is different. I was married approximately 17 years. Separated for over 2 years now almost divorced. My ex makes about $20/hr approx. $40k/year. I make $40/hr $80-$90k/ year. She's self sufficient in every way. How long do I have to pay SS? is there any way out of it. She lives mortgage free, vehicle paid off, bought her out of my pension, I have a couple more years of CS before both kids are out of school. A friend of mine was in a longer term marriage and he was done after 6 or 7 years after he took her back to court. I do realize their are many different factors based on any decision made by a judge.

  • #2
    the big thing is what does it say in your SA about it??

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    • #3
      My lawyer tells me flat out it's half or duration of ur marriage. Wtf is that! I'm not paying that long. Its not in the agreement. Is that the norm? Sure I can ask for an end date and she don't have to agree on it. Who decides this? This whole thing is just f--ked to me. Does a judge decide? To finalize my divorce, I think it's heading to the courts b/c of her. Property issues, pension, CS are all done except these little things. This is what's costing money between the lawyers. I just want it done. I guess I'm going to spend some extra cash and hopefully have something go my way.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Baffled_Dad View Post
        My lawyer tells me flat out it's half or duration of ur marriage. Wtf is that! I'm not paying that long. Its not in the agreement. Is that the norm? Sure I can ask for an end date and she don't have to agree on it. Who decides this? This whole thing is just f--ked to me. Does a judge decide? To finalize my divorce, I think it's heading to the courts b/c of her. Property issues, pension, CS are all done except these little things. This is what's costing money between the lawyers. I just want it done. I guess I'm going to spend some extra cash and hopefully have something go my way.
        i totally agree with you. She is making good money and not struggling.

        Did she take time off to raise the kids?

        Your lawyer is right but she, your ex also has to prove entitlement. Its not just automatic. Others will post about exactly what she has to prove. Dont lose hope quite yet.

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        • #5
          She worked on and off until she got into a motor vehicle accident in which she fully recovered. She returned to work full time about 3 years before we separated. No, I'm not giving up either. I just want it over. It's such a painful process financially. The emotional part the frustration of cutting all ties with her completely.

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          • #6
            In another thread you stated that you had a 20 year old child. If you were married 17 years, did you live together beforehand? This makes a big difference. As well, how old is your ex? This makes a big difference.

            Depending on the answers to these questions you may have to pay spousal support indefinately. You need to be clear if you want a clear answer.

            I don't understand why you are paying spousal support now. She has not proven entitlement. Child support should be paid from date of separation because it is the right of the child. Entitlement to spousal support has to be shown. If you have issues with paying spousal support, you shouldn't be paying it. By paying it you are admitting that she is entitled.

            Why is the 20 year old still receiving child support? Are your children going to university?

            Your ex should be imputed a full time wage regardless of how many hours she works. Spousal support would be paid according to what she is capable of earning, not what she chooses to work.

            Is your lawyer a divorce specialist? How many years experience? You should be better informed than this. We can offer some numbers and some advice but you have to be clear about your circumstances.

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            • #7
              I apologize for the jumping around. We lived together for about 2 years before we were married b/c the oldest came before we were married. No! The reason why she took time off was to get her income down. My kids are adults and one is away playing jr Hockey.
              I can honestly say I shot my self in the foot by paying her. I did not seek legal advice right away. We did our own agreement. My lawyer says our old agreement is null and void so then that means anything we agreed to other than property and pension b/c that was agreed not to be revisited. If I stop paying her now, what would a judge say. I really cant afford to pay what I'm paying. She's taking home $5400/ month I'm taking home $2800/ month. Wtf! My lawyer doesn't answer my calls. I end up speaking with his secretary. He gets the messages I know that. My oldest son is in his last year of college. I know my lawyer is working on the income statement from her. Her lawyer hasn't submitted it to us. Maybe if I stop paying SS all together this will motivate them. Will a judge look down on me or will he show some fairness?

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              • #8
                What does it say in your own agreement about SS? What did you originally agree too?

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                • #9
                  In the original agreement I agreed to pay her. Why should that matter? It's null and void. Thats before we sought out legal advice. Her lawyer clearly stated that the original agreement is null & void.

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                  • #10
                    Trying to understand the facts of your situation. If you have an agreement in place, you would have to follow her. That is why it matters. Why/how would the agreement be invalid now? What has changed all of a sudden?

                    I would expect your orignal agreement would state you pay $X SS for X years.

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                    • #11
                      Has the original agreement been set into an order in the courts?Or was it just written up between the two of you?You cant piecemeal between things you like in the agreement and things you don't.From what you have said, starting from scratch would be better for you in the long run.

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                      • #12
                        I can sense and sympathize with your frustration over the SS issue. From what I'm reading from you, looks like you only got "partial" advice on SS.

                        Yes, the "guideline" for duration is one half to 100% of the time you were together. NOTE this INCLUDES common law so if you were married 17 years and lived together for 2 years, its no different than being married 19 years. Yes, I know it sucks and its not even fair but that's another matter...

                        The bottom line with SS is that it is NOT "cut and dry" as is the case with CS. The various "formulas" are a "guideline" but are not "law" like CS. In other words, you can pretty well do any deal you want if you both agree and assuming its not crazy unfair to one party. Well, let's rephrase that; the courts usually don't care if its crazy unfair to the payor just the payee lol....

                        The advice of the other posters are also correct - the "guidelines" are based on ages, income differentials, did one spouse "give up" earning power to raise the kids, yada yada yada... From what I can tell, IF it got really nasty and went to court then the judge tends to use the "guidelines". But, everyone loses in court due to crazy legal fees so its best to cut at deal between you.

                        Courts tend to be reluctant to place a firm "end date" and instead give "review" periods or if there is a "Material change" (someone's income varies a lot, illness, etc.). The bottom line with this approach is that IT NEVER EFFING ENDS !!!! You'll be court till you're 85 fighting each other !

                        So, for what it's worth, here is my humble advice to you my friend...

                        a) keep in mind that monthly SS is tax deductible (unlike CS which is from YOUR NET income). You said you earn about $80 so you are pretty well in the marginal 46% tax bracket. In other words, if you pay her $1,000 a month, you get to deduct it like an RRSP so yo get almost $500 in a tax refund (recipient has to declare as income and pay tax on it). So, keep in mind we're talking NET dollars here, not gross.

                        b) in my opinion, be firm on a definitive END DATE come hell or high water !!! Make sure you have it properly worded so that even if there is an alien invasion the end date is not negotiable.

                        c) given your marginal tax rate and the likelihood of *hit happening as time goes on, I would be inclined to give a little higher amount BUT for a shorter time period. You want to get the hell away from her ASAP and distance yourself financially.

                        d) if you can, try to put in something that IF she remarries (or common law say 3 years), then SS terminates. The idea is that she would now be problem of the poor bastard who replaced you. In other words, she should only be having her hand in one man's wallet, not two lol !

                        e) Yes, lawyers are pricey. But in family law, you don't want to be penny wise pound foolish. Do NOT assume a lawyer is competent/good just because they are a lawyer. I was shocked how sloppy some family law lawyers are ! No different than any other occupation but people just "assume" a lawyer is good. There are good chefs and bad chefs for example. The problem is with a lawyer they don't really worry about "repeat" business so don't really care if you're pissed and don't come back. ASK around for references; maybe even here. Ask the lawyer for references from past clients; especially if their client was the "payor" like you are.

                        So, to summarize...

                        a) keep in mind we are talking tax deductible payments

                        b) get a GOOD lawyer

                        c) get a firm end date

                        All the best to you !!

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                        • #13
                          Both lawyers said it's not valid. The only thing we agreed to was the property and assets split. The agreement is being rewritten all over again besides property, pension and assets.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Baffled_Dad View Post
                            Both lawyers said it's not valid. The only thing we agreed to was the property and assets split. The agreement is being rewritten all over again besides property, pension and assets.
                            Get that in a written letter from her lawyer and then stop paying SS until you get the new deal hammered out.Its not like she doesn't have money of her own.Want her to play ball?Give her an incentive to play ball.If her lawyer is that adamant that the deal isnt worth anything, then there is your out clause-you will wait until you have a new agreement sorted out.May want your lawyer to brouch the subject of repayment of SS if you have been overpaying too.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Baffled_Dad View Post
                              I apologize for the jumping around. We lived together for about 2 years before we were married b/c the oldest came before we were married. No! The reason why she took time off was to get her income down. My kids are adults and one is away playing jr Hockey.
                              I can honestly say I shot my self in the foot by paying her. I did not seek legal advice right away. We did our own agreement. My lawyer says our old agreement is null and void so then that means anything we agreed to other than property and pension b/c that was agreed not to be revisited. If I stop paying her now, what would a judge say. I really cant afford to pay what I'm paying. She's taking home $5400/ month I'm taking home $2800/ month. Wtf! My lawyer doesn't answer my calls. I end up speaking with his secretary. He gets the messages I know that. My oldest son is in his last year of college. I know my lawyer is working on the income statement from her. Her lawyer hasn't submitted it to us. Maybe if I stop paying SS all together this will motivate them. Will a judge look down on me or will he show some fairness?
                              Originally posted by Baffled_Dad View Post
                              I realize every case is different. I was married approximately 17 years. Separated for over 2 years now almost divorced. My ex makes about $20/hr approx. $40k/year. I make $40/hr $80-$90k/ year. She's self sufficient in every way. How long do I have to pay SS? is there any way out of it. She lives mortgage free, vehicle paid off, bought her out of my pension, I have a couple more years of CS before both kids are out of school. A friend of mine was in a longer term marriage and he was done after 6 or 7 years after he took her back to court. I do realize their are many different factors based on any decision made by a judge.
                              I am truly not wanting to be difficult, but the information you provide from one post to another is not consistent and therefore how can one respond with guidance.
                              First you say she earns 40k a year to your 80k, then you go on to say she is taking home 5.4k a month to your 2.8k.
                              The math doesnt add.

                              Her living mortgage free or her cars paid off due to you buying her out of your pension is a division of property issue not to be confused with SS.
                              I would suggest that you stopping SS would not be viewed in a very positive light.
                              You say your lawyer is working on her income statement and then you say it hasnt been received from her lawyer. I understand you are frustrated but the facts have to be clear for someone to respond in a helpful way.
                              Last edited by momforever1956; 08-14-2012, 12:43 AM.

                              Comment

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