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  • #76
    Originally posted by momforever1956 View Post
    There are many books that can give you an insight to an abuser, one I suggest is, "Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft.
    There are many support groups for victims and it is a good idea to look into this, depending on where you live etc.
    There is a bottom line, (the accountant in me) GET OUT!!!!!!!
    "Why Does He Do That?" Excellent book by Lundy Bancroft. I've read "tons" of books on abuse, and this is by far one of the best. It's also the very first book I read when I decided to research abuse.

    I also highly agree with momforever1956 to join a support group. I did, and found myself helping others as much, actually more than helping myself.

    And yes, GET OUT...ASAP. Certainly do not wait for decades like I did.

    Comment


    • #77
      ^ That's a great book and really was insightful for me.When it comes to getting out of an abusive relationship-sooner is always better.Financial hardship you can overcome ,however being systematically destroyed on a daily basis and robbed of every ounce of self esteem -that's harder to get over. However after reading this book I didn't take it so personally!

      Comment


      • #78
        Blah blah blah, police, blah blah blah, family law, blah blah blah, bad idea...

        Shaw v. Shaw, 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
        Date: 2008-03-25
        Docket: 34/08
        Parallel citations: 62 RFL (6th) 100
        URL: CanLII - 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)

        These events have become routine and predictable in almost every allegation of spousal assault such that there is presumably some policy guiding the police and the Crown attorney and forestalling professional discretion in all such matters, no matter how remote the assault may be in time or indeed how trivial the contact. Spouses of every walk of life and often with completely unblemished prior character are routinely detained for a formal bail hearing for such assaults. Invariably, the defendant (not yet convicted) is excluded from his or her home and prevented from exercising custody of or access to the defendant’s children without any consideration of the factors that this court must apply by law before determining incidents of custody or access...

        The way that the criminal justice system approaches the commencement of these matters, however, often wreaks family law havoc with the family unit of the defendant and the complainant, and in particular the children of those parties. Family courts decide custody and access issues on the basis of statute and case law defining the best interests of the children. The criminal justice system pays no attention to such interests because it is not geared up to do so nor are the participants widely trained in how the actions of the system — from the officer who refuses to release the defendant at the station, to the duty counsel who allows the defendant to agree to inappropriate conditions of release out of expediency — effect the lives of the members of the defendant’s family. Similarly the Superior Court is tasked with the duty of adjudicating the respective rights of the parties to remain in the matrimonial home pending the resolution of the matrimonial litigation. Routine orders excluding a party from the common home of the parties until the end of the criminal matter without thought to the consequences thereof, and without a remedy short of a bail review, place one party in a position of immediate superiority over the other party for as long as it takes (perhaps a year) for defended criminal charges to be resolved. Such rote treatment of all matters of domestic assault can lead, on the one hand, to concocted or exaggerated claims of criminal behaviour or, on the other hand, to innocent defendants pleading guilty at an early stage out of expediency or a shared desire with the complainant to start to rehabilitate the family unit.
        ...

        [8] I do not know what advice Mr. Shaw received from the unnamed lawyer whom he consulted before, as he put it, asking for charges to be laid. I can only hope that no licensed lawyer in this province would have advised the father that the fastest way to get custody and exclusive possession of the family home was to report the mother’s transgressions to the police.

        [9] I do not know with what police officers Mr. Shaw had contact at the Shelburne Police Service. I can only hope that the officers whom he saw there do not believe that complainants in criminal matters decide whether charges are, or are not, to be laid.

        [10] I do not know what counsel were present at the bail hearing held in Ms. Shaw’s case, nor do I know whether the matter proceeded, as many such matters do proceed, on the basis of a consent release on terms. I hope that all counsel understand that the terms of release should have some rational bearing on the severity and timeliness of the charges that were then before the court. I have difficulty on this record understanding why the mother was required to abide by the majority of the terms on her recognizance — although I understand completely why the mother may have been prepared to sign just about anything to be released from jail.
        Never would want to read this in a CanLII decision:

        I know that TheLitigant got bad advice from members of the online forum OttawaDivore.com from the poster Janus whom TheLitigant consulted before, as TheLitigant put it, asking for charges to be laid. I can only hope that no human with common sense even on a public message board would advise anyone that the fastest way to get custody and exclusive possession of the family home was to report the TheOtherParty's transgressions to the police.

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #79
          "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft

          I am not a fan of this "textbook" that often is cited. There are hundreds of reasons but the basic ones are as follows:

          1. The author doesn't follow "evidence based medicine" practices in any of his written or "therapeutic" practices.

          2. To the best of the research I have done on the author I have not be able to identify any clinically related certifications for the author in question. (e.g. College Registrations for any clinical practices.)

          3. The book lacks any citation to many of the statistics the author provides on "domestic violence". The footnotes are lacking significantly.

          4. The primary element of the book overall is "fear". The lists of traits given are so generic you can apply anyone to them.

          5. His work has been plagiarized before the courts (Ontario) by litigants even so far as using "stories" he presents in his book as the litigant's own personal experiences. (Simple plagiarized checker would highlight this absurdity to the courts - electronic trials/court records are REALLY needed.)

          My recommendation to anyone reading this book would be to seek out other materials and in particular the work of Dr. Don Dunton:

          Faculty Profile | UBC Psychology Department | University of British Columbia | Canada

          http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conten...e-violence.pdf

          The Gender Paradigm and the Architecture of Antiscience
          Donald G. Dutton, PhD
          University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada

          http://www.responsiblerecovery.org/PDF/PartnerAbuse.pdf

          http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conten...E-VIOLENCE.pdf

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

          Comment


          • #80
            Yes, it was horrible advice (by Janus) - I'm sure all agree.. It was also obvious (to me) that it was a knee-jerk, sarcastic response . . Which *does not* excuse it at all. It would of course be foolish to use the advice as a "how-to" (to) handle a separation.

            We need to strive to provide responsible advice/comments on here. I did have the police involved in my matter. What Tayken said is bang on. The police don't have anything to do with how it will impact on the Family Court side of things. The Family Courts and the Police don't "work together" on these matters, at all.

            Although there was immediately a no direct contact order placed upon my ex, he was at no time prevented from seeing our child at that time (but it had to be arranged thru a 3rd party). That proved to be tricky.

            My situation was real and did warrant the arrest of my ex. But to think that anyone would set another person up for this is just evil. (That's not a commentary on the OP's thread: it does sound as though she's got a potentially dangerous situation). Just as there should be consequences for abusers, there needs to be consequences for persons who leverage false allegations against their partners. Easier said than done, I'm sure.

            Things undoubtedly, get lost in "the machine" that is Family Court and as many of us know: it takes a long time to go through all the cogs of that machine. Just my 2 cents.
            Last edited by hadenough; 12-26-2012, 09:42 PM.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
              "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft

              I am not a fan of this "textbook" that often is cited. There are hundreds of reasons but the basic ones are as follows:

              1. The author doesn't follow "evidence based medicine" practices in any of his written or "therapeutic" practices.

              2. To the best of the research I have done on the author I have not be able to identify any clinically related certifications for the author in question. (e.g. College Registrations for any clinical practices.)

              3. The book lacks any citation to many of the statistics the author provides on "domestic violence". The footnotes are lacking significantly.

              4. The primary element of the book overall is "fear". The lists of traits given are so generic you can apply anyone to them.

              5. His work has been plagiarized before the courts (Ontario) by litigants even so far as using "stories" he presents in his book as the litigant's own personal experiences. (Simple plagiarized checker would highlight this absurdity to the courts - electronic trials/court records are REALLY needed.)

              My recommendation to anyone reading this book would be to seek out other materials and in particular the work of Dr. Don Dunton:

              Faculty Profile | UBC Psychology Department | University of British Columbia | Canada

              http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conten...e-violence.pdf

              The Gender Paradigm and the Architecture of Antiscience
              Donald G. Dutton, PhD
              University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada

              http://www.responsiblerecovery.org/PDF/PartnerAbuse.pdf

              http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conten...E-VIOLENCE.pdf

              Good Luck!
              Tayken

              For actual victims (rather than those seeking to establish custody or get to the social housing list),this book(why does he do that) taught us a very valuable lesson.We are not alone.All those years of being blamed for his/her bad behaviour,mood swings ,rages -it wasn't our problem .We were not to blame.I personally was just happy to know that there was others out there with the same or similar situations.Would I use it in court?Probably not .But as a tool for someone getting out of a controlled relationship?Its a very handy one.Very simplistic but useful.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                For actual victims (rather than those seeking to establish custody or get to the social housing list),this book(why does he do that) taught us a very valuable lesson.
                To project blame?

                Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                We are not alone.
                And are gay, lesbian, male, female, and transgendered?

                Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                All those years of being blamed for his/her bad behaviour, mood swings, rages - it wasn't our problem.
                What was the problem then?

                Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                We were not to blame. I personally was just happy to know that there was others out there with the same or similar situations.
                Hopefully you got this through therapy and not a "book" that is gender biased and has no evidence based medicine to support its "theory".

                Originally posted by murphyslaw View Post
                Would I use it in court? Probably not. But as a tool for someone getting out of a controlled relationship? Its a very handy one. Very simplistic but useful.
                There isn't anything "simplistic" about "intimate partner abuse". That is the problem with books like the one quoted. They are all geared towards setting up a "target of blame" and often insight unsubstantiated and biased arguments before the court based on a "theory" which has no shred of evidence in support of the claims being made by the person who read the book.

                Therapeutic intervention by qualified medical professionals is the best option for those who have truly been subjected to abuse of any kind. Reading a self-help book premised on a personal theory of a single author championed to be some "white knight" to a "movement" often creates more conflict in matters rather than solve them possibly.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Tayken View Post

                  Therapeutic intervention by qualified medical professionals is the best option for those who have truly been subjected to abuse of any kind. Reading a self-help book premised on a personal theory of a single author championed to be some "white knight" to a "movement" often creates more conflict in matters rather than solve them possibly.

                  Good Luck!
                  Tayken
                  I have never read the book in question.
                  Your above statement is rather bold and narrow minded. don't you think? What works for one person may not be the remedy for the next

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by madm82 View Post
                    I have never read the book in question.
                    Your above statement is rather bold and narrow minded. don't you think? What works for one person may not be the remedy for the next
                    How is it "bold" and "narrow minded"? I provided additional resources to qualified and recognized forensic psychology from a recognized Canadian clinician. If you need more citations I can provide them. It is something that the "author" in question is unable to do in their "published" materials.

                    Or do you just oppose the view that registered clinicians and not unqualified authors with no medical background should be taken as "therapeutic" experts?

                    I just pose an opposing argument and cite alternative and recognized sources of additional information in counter to the unsubstantiated and under researched generalized claims that are often made in the "domestic violence" industry.

                    The author no doubt has made a lot of money selling their book. I don't make any money posting public articles form recognized and registered Canadian medical professionals who provide insightful and well documented (and properly cited) evidence based (forensically sound) medicine. Which I note can easily be found using Google Search and don't have a price tag attached to them to read them. (Generally, good and proper research that is based on sound evidence based medicine comes this way because the author isn't profiting from their work and research but, improving a collective understanding of the subject matter to improve outcomes in medicine...)

                    Not sure how this constitutes a "bold" and "narrow minded" approach and would really be interesting in understanding how you came to that conclusion. Generally many of the non-clinical "self-help" books that are sold by these "gurus" has a price tag attached to it... They almost follow a multi-level marketing scheme at times. (Similar to the claims of the recent rash of "essential oils" being sold by "gurus".)

                    For example:

                    http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/young.html

                    Also, there is no question that I am a proponent of a public health care system where qualified and registered MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS address our citizens needs and not under-qualified or unqualified "gurus" of "medical information". I hold no punches on that opinion in any of my postings.

                    Feel free to think critically and not just be critical when responding...

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken
                    Last edited by Tayken; 12-26-2012, 11:02 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      Therapeutic intervention by qualified medical professionals is the best option for those who have truly been subjected to abuse of any kind.
                      I agree with this statement and also will say its the only way to recognize our own contributions.

                      The abuse cycle is just that. Yes, there is the 'abuser', however the target often becomes codependent. In order to stop the cycle, therapy is sometimes the only way.

                      I did find reading some of the non professional books was helpful on my journey of healing as it gave me reassurance that I wasn't alone.

                      But, the most helpful was therapy. Partly due to the 'gas-lighting' I was being subjected to. Apparently my psychiatrist doesn't think I'm crazy, which is reassuring .
                      Last edited by OhMy; 12-26-2012, 11:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Tayken, I had a whole response typed out for you and my freaking laptop restarted on me for those bleeeeeeeeepppping updates! I'm a little mad at it at the moment, so hopefully, I will be able to re-compose my response in a bit, as I now need a break from this thread. lol Grrr...........

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          The book could just as easily have been applied to lesbian or gay relationships or violent woman to man-there is no barriers to controlling behaviours.While all your scientific stuff is great.You seem to forget that trying to get someone who has deep mental issues, and is currently targeting all their rage and frustration at you,into a medical treatment is nigh on impossible.

                          There is theory and there is real life.In theory we would say to our partner or spouse be they same sex or opposite-honey dearest...you seem to have some rage issues and possible psychotic tendencies,why don't we mosey on down to the doctor and see if he can get us some help?But kinda like suggestions of marriage counselling, that may not be met with a round of applause.

                          I take it from your deep mistrust of any female who has suffered from abuse that you were a victim of fraudulent accusations?That is a terrible thing to suffer and I do feel for you but please don't diminish those of us who have dealt with domestic violence.Often doctors pile on the pharmaceuticals for those who have gotten out of violent situations although counselling helps tremendously.

                          For those still in those situations who haven't left yet-getting a handle on any of the issues is a big help.It isnt going to make someone lie on an affidavit -only the person themselves can do that.If someone reads a book and decides to use this knowledge for the purpose of criminal activity,the book itself isn't to blame.That person has criminal tendencies and is going to follow those tendencies.There is plenty of people who happily break the law every chance they get for any reason they see fit,this seems to be limitless in family law.Rather than blame survivors of domestic abuse why don't you put the blame where it belongs -on a system where lying in court gets no punishment?Would so many people continue to abuse the system if they knew they would get punished ?Hardly.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by OhMy View Post
                            I agree with this statement and also will say its the only way to recognize our own contributions.

                            The abuse cycle is just that. Yes, there is the 'abuser', however the target often becomes codependent. In order to stop the cycle, therapy is sometimes the only way.

                            I did find reading some of the non professional books was helpful on my journey of healing as it gave me reassurance that I wasn't alone.

                            But, the most helpful was therapy.
                            I am not a fan of the non-clincial term of "codependency". It is miss used and is not a clinical term. Any licensed therapist (social worker, psychologist, psychiatrist, ... MEDICAL PRACTITIONER) who uses this term should not be. It isn't recognized in any medical ontology for any diagnosis.

                            Wikipedia summarizes the points better than I can...

                            Codependency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            Going from one extreme to the other. Sometimes an individual can, in attempts to recover from codependency, go from being overly passive or overly giving to being overly aggressive or excessively selfish.[6] Many therapists maintain that finding a balance through healthy assertiveness (which leaves room for being a caring person and also engaging in healthy caring behavior), is true recovery from codependency and that becoming extremely selfish, a bully, or an otherwise conflict-addicted person, is not.[6][20]

                            Victim mentality. According to this perspective, developing a permanent stance of being a victim (having a "victim mentality") would also not constitute true recovery from codependency and could be another example of going from one extreme to another.[6] A victim mentality could also be seen as a part of one's original state of codependency (lack of empowerment causing one to feel like the "subject" of events rather than being an empowered actor).[6] Someone truly recovered from codependency would feel empowered and like an author of their life and actions rather than being at the mercy of outside forces.[6] A victim mentality may also occur in combination with passive–aggressive control issues.[6] From the perspective of moving beyond victim-hood, the capacity to forgive and let go (with exception of cases of very severe abuse) could also be signs of real recovery from codependency, but the willingness to endure further abuse would not.[6]

                            Caring for an individual with a physical addiction is not necessarily synonymous with pathology. To name the caregiver as a co-alcoholic responsible for the endurance of their partner's alcoholism for example, pathologizes caring behavior. The caregiver may only require assertiveness skills and the ability to place responsibility for the addiction on the other.[6][20]

                            Not all mental health professionals agree about codependence or its standard methods of treatment.[21] It is not listed in the DSM-IV-TR. Stan Katz & Liu, in "The Codependency Conspiracy: How to Break the Recovery Habit and Take Charge of Your Life," feel that codependence is over-diagnosed, and that many people who could be helped with shorter-term treatments instead become dependent on long-term self-help programs.

                            Some believe that codependency is not a negative trait, and does not need to be treated, as it is more likely a healthy personality trait taken to excess. Codependency in nonclinical populations has some links with favorable characteristics of family functioning.[22]

                            The language of, symptoms of, and treatment for codependence derive from the medical model suggesting a disease process underlies the behavior. There is no evidence that codependence is caused by a disease process, communicable or otherwise.

                            Some frequent users of the codependency concept use the word as an alternative to use the concept dysfunctional families, without statements that classify it as a disease.[23]

                            Not everything promoted by recovery agencies is a demonstrable scientific fact, some of it is based on fashion and faith alone.[24][25]
                            Melody Beattie, yet another non-clinician who coined the phrase "codependency" is about as credible as the author in question.

                            Commitments : People Who Read Too Much : Have all those pop psychology books of the last decade really been of much help? Or have they led us down the path to isolation and misery? - Los Angeles Times

                            So, did all that advice make men and women happier?

                            "No. What we ended up with is therapists teaching each other and their patients how not to be in a relationship," says Los Angeles therapist Marion Solomon.

                            Those messages turned us into a "self-oriented society who thinks that 'loving ourselves' is the prescription for psychological and emotional health," she says.

                            ...

                            "In all honesty, I think so much of [the self-help movement] is just a sham," says Suzanna Walters, assistant professor of sociology at Georgetown University. "I think a lot of these people are real operators who are trying to distill complex ideas into little droplets of five steps to this and 12 steps to that."

                            ...

                            "Those are so dangerous and so hurtful because the vulnerable general public reads these books and they diagnose themselves and end up feeling worse."
                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken
                            Last edited by Tayken; 12-26-2012, 11:20 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              This thread is under "domestic violence" and I think it is inappropriate for anyone to make light of this issue. Domestic violence in itself is gender-neutral.
                              Amen. Thanks arabian. Exactly why I have a problem with:

                              Originally posted by momforever1956 View Post
                              There are many books that can give you an insight to an abuser, one I suggest is, "Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft.
                              Is there a version called "Why does she do that?" Wow, ladies you are all too smart to back this gender biased bullshit, I know you are. I don't condone any violence towards women, but I also don't condone any violence towards men, gay, transgender...whatever. And I know that this is not only perpetrated by men: my best friend is lesbian and she had been assaulted several times by her partner - I intervened in her situation when I found out.

                              Originally posted by momforever1956 View Post
                              DV has become a buzz word that the courts are beginning to role their eyes at.
                              Can't wait till that actually happens, although I know it is a fact for police already. When false allegations begin to receive disciplinary action I will be even happier.
                              Last edited by baldclub; 12-26-2012, 11:34 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I received my education in abusive behavior by living with it for 10 years *groan* ... As for books, there's a little handbook I picked up one day called "Psychology of Relationships" ('a practical guide') by John Karter, a UKCP registered psychotherapist - that is mildly interesting.

                                The real "realizations" have come with time and good old common sense.

                                Comment

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