Bank accounts for kids

[MommaMouse]

My D6 and D4 got money for birthday and x-mas and I was thinking it was about time to open up their first savings accounts. Only to discover from D6 that the ex has an account in her name already, but she does not know anything of money. She tells me they go all the time and he puts money in and she got a princess set from the bank for opening the account.

We are in court right now and he is claiming undue hardship, although I have a suspicion that he works under the table. I do not want any portion of money he makes under the table, I am happy with the amount I recieve. But I'm left wondering if he hides money in my daughters name, which ultimatly goes against me in court.

I have full custody and he has EOW and one weekday every other week.

Anyway, my real question is do I have a right to access all of my daughters accounts? Should I open a seperate account for her at the same bank or a different bank?

[Teenwolf]

You have full custody of the daughter, so it seems logical that you should have access to her bank account. However, the father likely didn't include you on the account when it was opened, so you might have some problems trying to get the bank to give you access.

On what grounds is he claiming undue hardship? If it's due to his lower standard of living alone, then that's not a circumstance for undue hardship. You may not want any portion of the money he makes under the table, but you may need to get his income imputed, based on this underground money, because his legitimate income may be very low and you'll get no CS/S7.

I'm willing to bet that his claim of undue hardship is solely due to his reported very low income. If this is true, then his application for undue hardship will fail. You need to flip it back on him and ask why his income is so low. He has an obligation to work and support the kids. If he's not, then he needs to justify it. Acceptable reasons for little to no income include medical issues, his education needs or a legal requirement for him to support additional children beyond your previous relationship. If these three don't apply, his income can be imputed to previous income levels for the purpose of calculating CS/S7 amounts.

[Coop]

If you are happy with the amount of support that you receive then I would leave this whole bank account that she has with him alone. You don't need to have access to it or control everything she and he does. He opened a bank account....there are worse things a father could do.

Open your own account for your daughter.

Sorry if I sound blunt....I am the wife of wonderful man who has had to deal with a very controlling ex. To me, everything could be so easy if everyone just minded their own business. If he treats your daughter well, she is fed, bathed, is on a decent schedule, and is happy with her visits with dad then you should be happy.

Please don't waste your time and energy worrying about these petty things.

[tdog]

My D6 and D4 got money for birthday and x-mas and I was thinking it was about time to open up their first savings accounts. Only to discover from D6 that the ex has an account in her name already, but she does not know anything of money. She tells me they go all the time and he puts money in and she got a princess set from the bank for opening the account.

We are in court right now and he is claiming undue hardship, although I have a suspicion that he works under the table. I do not want any portion of money he makes under the table, I am happy with the amount I recieve. But I'm left wondering if he hides money in my daughters name, which ultimatly goes against me in court.

I have full custody and he has EOW and one weekday every other week.

Anyway, my real question is do I have a right to access all of my daughters accounts? Should I open a seperate account for her at the same bank or a different bank?

Of all the things my ex has done to me in the past 3 years, she's never once asked about getting access to the savings account I've set up for my daughters.

[Gary M]

If he opened accounts for the kids, that's a good thing.

If you are happy with the support you recieve, that's a good thing.

What he does with his money is none of your business, and you have NO right to info from those accounts whether you have sole, joint, or no custody.

If he is hiding money in those accounts, shame on him - but that's for the courts and CRA to decide/action. You may suggest that these accounts exist, and that their true purpose is to hide income and he may be forced to disclose to the court.

To suggest, though, that you should have access to them smacks of jealous controlling meddling behaviour... I'm certain that you're not that type of person, so you might want to consider the optics

What you need to do is let go - what he does is no longer any of your business.

Cheers!

Gary

[MommaMouse]

If he opened accounts for the kids, that's a good thing.

If you are happy with the support you recieve, that's a good thing.

What he does with his money is none of your business, and you have NO right to info from those accounts whether you have sole, joint, or no custody.

If he is hiding money in those accounts, shame on him - but that's for the courts and CRA to decide/action. You may suggest that these accounts exist, and that their true purpose is to hide income and he may be forced to disclose to the court.

To suggest, though, that you should have access to them smacks of jealous controlling meddling behaviour... I'm certain that you're not that type of person, so you might want to consider the optics

What you need to do is let go - what he does is no longer any of your business.

Cheers!

Gary

I'm not trying to control him, or would even care if he opened up an account for my daughter. But for the fact that every penny of my savings and all my assets will be compared to his in court. He has his house and truck in his Mothers name so that they are not assets of his, the Flic lawyer tells me I can't do anything if the money/assets are not in his name. I will bring it up with the lawyer and leave it at that. I think I'm just frustrated at fighting for CS and wonder if with these tactics it's even worth it.

[Berner_Faith]

You already stated you were happy with CS amounts.. if your ex works under the table it may be hard for you to prove as it could come down to your word against his. As for the account... you have already stated he opened it up for her and your D6 knows this... even if it is just a Tax Free Savings Account, it is in her name and this is something he did for her. My bf and I have accounts for both his children (S6 & D3), his stbx knows nothing about these, they really are none of her business. His parents also have separate savings accounts that they put money in monthly... this money is for the children... ever once in a while the kids will want a toy or video game... we go to the bank and get $20 out and they go buy what they want... they received money for Christmas, spent $20 and put the rest in their accounts... if your ex is teaching your daughter the importance of money/saving I wouldn't fight too much about it.

If/when you open up the accounts for the children, are you going to allow him access to those accounts?

[MommaMouse]

You already stated you were happy with CS amounts.. if your ex works under the table it may be hard for you to prove as it could come down to your word against his. As for the account... you have already stated he opened it up for her and your D6 knows this... even if it is just a Tax Free Savings Account, it is in her name and this is something he did for her. My bf and I have accounts for both his children (S6 & D3), his stbx knows nothing about these, they really are none of her business. His parents also have separate savings accounts that they put money in monthly... this money is for the children... ever once in a while the kids will want a toy or video game... we go to the bank and get $20 out and they go buy what they want... they received money for Christmas, spent $20 and put the rest in their accounts... if your ex is teaching your daughter the importance of money/saving I wouldn't fight too much about it.

If/when you open up the accounts for the children, are you going to allow him access to those accounts?

The part your missing is my ex has taken me back to court to have his CS reduced, so he would be paying far less than the table amount.

I was going to open up an account for both kids he could put money into as well, so yes I would have no problem in him having access to accounts in the childrens name although that might lead to other issues is D6 wants to buy stuff. The part that confuses me is that he is not teaching her about savings, although she is aware that she went to the bank and got toys for opening up an account, she does not know anything about savings or what the bank if for.

In any case, I see know that it is common for kids to have more than one account and I will set up my own savings account for the children.
One last question, as I need to fill out financial disclosure for court, do I include the RESP's and the kids savings accounts in it as they live under my roof?

[Teenwolf]

I agree that it's none of her business what he does with his money; however, how much money he makes is her business. He has a legal obligation to report his annual income to her. If he's working under the table, not reporting it, and using his daughters account to hide extra income, then this is her business. The situation seems shady and I would talk to a lawyer to explore the options.

In regard to reporting RESPs for financial disclosure, I don't believe this is required. RESPs are for the kids and any captial gains remain locked into the account to be used towards the childrens' education. I don't view this as income for you.

The same would hold true for the kids' savings account. You said that the father frequently puts money into the daughters account, but the money he has there (supposedly for the daughter) isn't income. The real question is where does the money come from that he puts in there? How he got it is income for him, which should be reported.

It can be hard to prove that he's working under the table; however, you really don't need to go that route. Based on previously calculated CS amounts, there is already documented income disclosure for him. If his most recent disclosure to the court shows a significant reduction in income, then he needs to justify it. The disparity in his past earning potential and current income is evidence enough and the onus switches to him to explain it.

[Berner_Faith]

I agree that it's none of her business what he does with his money; however, how much money he makes is her business. He has a legal obligation to report his annual income to her. If he's working under the table, not reporting it, and using his daughters account to hide extra income, then this is her business. The situation seems shady and I would talk to a lawyer to explore the options.

It isn't her business where his money goes... if you feel he is under-employing himself, you should be trying to impute his income for a full time job at min wage... as I stated, proving someone is working under the table will be harder than having his income imputed.

For some reason I find it hard to believe that you would allow your ex to have access to a your child's account...anyone can deposit money into anyone's account, providing they have the account number and name of that person, but if you are already concerned about him "hiding" money I don't see you giving him access to the account.

[Teenwolf]

It isn't her business where his money goes... if you feel he is under-employing himself, you should be trying to impute his income for a full time job at min wage... as I stated, proving someone is working under the table will be harder than having his income imputed.

I agree. My point was that it's her business to know how much he makes. If he's being deceitful about his income, then that's her business. I also agree that imputing income is the way forward. How much to impute depends on his past demonstrated earning potential. If he has previously made more the min wage, then ask to impute to that amount. If not, stick with min wage based on a full time work week.

[Teenwolf]

She said, "...But I'm left wondering if he hides money in my daughters name, which ultimatly goes against me in court."

I interpret this in terms of him hiding money and her trying to argue his application to reduce the CS amount. If he's hiding money, then that's hard to prove. Like was said earlier, the best route is to impute his income.

[Epona]

MommaMouse, I'm in the same situation as you, and have lived with it for over nine years. When we were married, we opened up an account in our eldest child's name. I put all the money in it---it was to be for the child's future education. Fast forward five years when husband wants out.
My parents, first thing they tell me to do is check the accounts (joint account, cleared and expected and child's trust account, also cleared out, to the tune of $13,000 that I, and I alone, contributed!). That money being taken from the child's account really, really irked me. I mentioned it several times to the lawyer (at my mother's insistence) and the lawyer said I can't prove anything and had to let it go. So I have (except when I'm reminded of it like your letter!).
After ex and I signed first separation agreement, ex opened another account with eldest child, then 5 years old (which baffled me how he could that without SIN card, but apparently you DON'T actually need the card to open an account in your child's name). Ex filed income tax return for 5 year old child that year and has refused to give me a copy. Who knows how many other income tax returns he has filed with child's name over the years? I can't get the info from CRA (even after I showed them I have full custody of child and Dad has no legal right to file income returns on behalf of child without my permission).
A couple of weeks ago, youngest child saw Dad hand over a bank book to a teller, saying "Here's his bank book." Youngest said Dad was depositing his pay cheque into it (and NO, I did'NT quiz child about it -- child was asking me why Dad was doing these things).
So, I have a pretty good hunch Dad is hiding his income in an account opened with eldest childs name. When eldest (now 15 1/2 years old) child asks Dad about the account in that child's name, Dad denies all knowledge to the child even though they have gone to the bank with him and Dad has had the child's account updated!
At 15 1/2, Dad can't pull the wool over the teen's eyes much longer.
MY concern, is what will it be like when eldest starts filing income tax---has Dad been using child's name fraudulanty (sp) ? How will THAT impact child when the time comes? Since I'm the custodial parent, Dad can't legally file income tax return for child without my permission, and since he is an accountant and did income tax returns for many years, you can bet he's planning on doing child's income tax returns!
I can do nothing unless eldest child wants to find out about things. Eldest has been asking Dad. Dad isn't answering. Eldest is getting old enough to start asking on behalf of self. So I stand on the sidelines and just hope Dad is being fair and invested the $13,000 I put aside for children that he took.
I'm hoping for the best. But I'm pretty certain Dad is hiding his income under eldest child's name and hopefully hasn't implicated eldest child in anything shady.
Oh, And the main reason for responding -- There's NOTHING wrong with you opening another bank account in your daughter's name. Children can have accounts opened with one or both parents, grandparents, aunts and/or uncles. If the adult trustee has the child's SIN, I'm not sure there's a limit as to the number of accounts a child can have.

[Epona]

"She said that if her ex was using their childs account, she fears it could go against her in court. I don't see how" by Iceberg.
Because it would lower his income, which would lower child support and his proportionate share of S.7 expenses.

[dinkyface]

I don't quite understand how putting money in this account vs that helps hide money. We pay tax on INCOME not ASSETS. I don't report any of my bank balances to the CRA ... only returns from my investment account. The $5 (?) in interest that I get yearly from my chequing/savings accounts isn't reported.

But perhaps he is taking money under the table for some kind of service i.e. not reporting income to the CRA?