Sole vs joint

[Ange71727]

Pretty accurate. Except the kids are not teens. A couple years away from that and not in a rush! Also, he's not in a union job. He has a great, high paying job. He shouldn't be in any financial trouble whatsoever, and I doubt highly that he is. He didn't make the increase because right now FRO is only releasing me the amount from the first agreement (so the "extra" he pays just accrues in the FRO account). He figured he'd just wait on that one because I can't receive the increase anyway (until we make an amending agreement for the new child support), and now he's using all of this as a bargaining chip in the negotiations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just to clarify, yes he's been in the same job for about 17 years now. He's with a union too, I think I misread what you wrote. He's a shiftworker who has been doing the same role for so long now and most people his age have gone to a desk or a 9-5 position within the job. I don't know the circumstances on why he hasn't yet. I guess he doesn't want to.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ange71727]

Even though calculations come out that he is supposed to pay more CS (in accordance to his tax return) Ange has agreed to reduce it 500.00/month - that's a large amount of CS to walk away from (think she should get another lawyer). Meanwhile the guy has made ABSOLUTELY NO overture to alter his work schedule so that he could, indeed, spend more quality time with his children. What does that tell you???

Men who are proponents of 50/50 should not endorse the actions of such an individual.

The guy should man-up and pay his arrears and talk to union steward about his schedule. I believe he has enough seniority to qualify for change of shifts so he can spend more time with his children (when they aren't in school). The guy should show some good faith by agreeing to equitably share weekends with his ex. This is not too much to expect. His failure to do so will bite him in the ass in the end. His actions (or not) speak very loud.

LF32 this guy is in no way anything like you or your situation. You would jump over the moon for your daughter to make things work. Don't lower yourself and compare yourself to this loser.

I agreed to reduce it BY 500 per month. Still a lot to have conceded though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LovingFather32]

Likewise, I notice you declined to comment on the fact that my ex is in arrears again. Maybe I should assume that your absence of a comment on this means you support him neglecting his duty to provide child support for his children?

I actually dont buy this arrears thing, which is why I didn't comment. You only brought this up after I made many good points. If it were true I guarantee you would have started an angry thread about it when it happened, not just let us know non-nonchalantly to counter my post.

Also, to be clear, there was never a "formal proposed" agreement for 50-50. Ever.

And this is why I've been calling BS. I didn't want to go back, but here we go:

Here is what you said in your very first post in odf:

I then received a proposed new agreement from his lawyer suggesting he get 50-50,

Soo, you were sent a formal proposed agreement. Can we get past that now? To which you replied:

I emphatically said "NO" to this proposal

Please stop saying he never sent a formal proposal for 50/50. It's not looking good for your credibility .. because you actually wrote that he did.

If this were a father being caught the possee would be "all over you" regarding credibility. Luckily you're a mom...so you're all good with the other posters.


This has just become a dad bashing thread .. so you guys go on about how his spelling has improved since he met his g/f, how he only wants to be a good dad because of his new g/f .. or he only wants to see his kids for money purposes. Or how everything he does is case building (while you record your kids to build your case).

In my case these same posters kept me in line when I became sour about my ex and her actions. They encouraged me to stay focused on the FLR's, CLRA's. They helped in so many ways to achieve what I have today and I'll be forever grateful. But boy was I trampled if I complained about her character or villified her in any way. Funny how it all changes when it's a mom here.

LF32 seems to think all fathers are like him but in reality, they are not. Its sad that someone wont do the little things to be a parent. That includes being a parent when it isnt convenient for them.

Little things like moving closer to their school to make life easier for the kids? Or asking to have equal involvement in their life..and being rejected?

Struggling with scheduling does not make somebody a bad father. He tried to see his kids more equally (which would have included having his support system in place while he was at work).

You seem to forget Ange "empathetically said NO to 50/50". She disallowed him an equal relationship .. yes it's shitty that he gave up trying after her denials .. but it was denied nonetheless. He "did" in fact try to parent even when it wasn't convenient for him. He paid money to send that formal proposed agreement for 50/50. He was "DENIED" that opportunity. He even moved closer to their school. I hear nothing positive about that step either.

Posters need to stop their moaning and whining and go back to her first thread. You're all being "had" by the OP. She's here to validate her own thoughts about how terrible he is and vent, not get sound advice. I'm truly surprised that my fellow mother posters are simply joining in on it.

An annoying mate, but doesn't sound like a bad dad. Parallel parenting with 50/50 would have solved all of this crap. Too bad you denied his lawyers formal proposal for 50/50 in the beginning....but the least you can do is simply acknowledge that it was sent .. as you wrote it was early on.

Now we've determined that you've been caught in a lie again, lets get focused .. have you attempted any of 5 steps I suggested to help relieve communication issues so that a joint situation could work?

The thing about my threads is that my stories never ever changed. The truth is so easy to follow because I never had to remember any lies that I wrote, because there were none.

[Ange71727]

I actually dont buy this arrears thing, which is why I didn't comment. You only brought this up after I made many good points. If it were true I guarantee you would have started an angry thread about it when it happened, not just let us know non-nonchalantly to counter my post.


And this is why I've been calling BS. I didn't want to go back, but here we go:

Here is what you said in your very first post in odf:



Soo, you were sent a formal proposed agreement. Can we get past that now? To which you replied:


Please stop saying he never sent a formal proposal for 50/50. It's not looking good for your credibility .. because you actually wrote that he did.

If this were a father being caught the possee would be "all over you" regarding credibility. Luckily you're a mom...so you're all good with the other posters.


This has just become a dad bashing thread .. so you guys go on about how his spelling has improved since he met his g/f, how he only wants to be a good dad because of his new g/f .. or he only wants to see his kids for money purposes. Or how everything he does is case building (while you record your kids to build your case).

In my case these same posters kept me in line when I became sour about my ex and her actions. They encouraged me to stay focused on the FLR's, CLRA's. They helped in so many ways to achieve what I have today and I'll be forever grateful. But boy was I trampled if I complained about her character or villified her in any way. Funny how it all changes when it's a mom here.


Little things like moving closer to their school to make life easier for the kids? Or asking to have equal involvement in their life..and being rejected?

Struggling with scheduling does not make somebody a bad father. He tried to see his kids more equally (which would have included having his support system in place while he was at work).

You seem to forget Ange "empathetically said NO to 50/50". She disallowed him an equal relationship .. yes it's shitty that he gave up trying after her denials .. but it was denied nonetheless. He "did" in fact try to parent even when it wasn't convenient for him. He paid money to send that formal proposed agreement for 50/50. He was "DENIED" that opportunity. He even moved closer to their school. I hear nothing positive about that step either.

Posters need to stop their moaning and whining and go back to her first thread. You're all being "had" by the OP. She's here to validate her own thoughts about how terrible he is and vent, not get sound advice. I'm truly surprised that my fellow mother posters are simply joining in on it.

An annoying mate, but doesn't sound like a bad dad. Parallel parenting with 50/50 would have solved all of this crap. Too bad you denied his lawyers formal proposal for 50/50 in the beginning....but the least you can do is simply acknowledge that it was sent .. as you wrote it was early on.

Now we've determined that you've been caught in a lie again, lets get focused .. have you attempted any of 5 steps I suggested to help relieve communication issues so that a joint situation could work?

The thing about my threads is that my stories never ever changed. The truth is so easy to follow because I never had to remember any lies that I wrote, because there were none.

You're obviously a very bitter person and have a grudge against me. The thing about this place is that you have to take the posters at face value. You don't see the ex's side. The facts are: yes he absolutely threw around the 50-50 idea at first. Yes I emphatically said NO - not denying that. I gave my reasons which you and some other people disagreed with. Then when a formal offer did come, it was not for 50-50. It was for only his days off. He doesn't have the ability to be off half of the month. Who does? This is why 50-50 was all bluffing. Somebody else said here (Arabian?) that it might have been a standard negotiating tactic - say you want more so it looks like you are "conceding" with your actual offer. I believe this completely.
Ask yourself, if he really wanted 50-50 then why did he turn it down for the summer? Would you?
The arrears are absolutely true. I'm sorry you think I'm lying but I'm not. If you look back LF, I don't start "angry" threads. I also don't really want to be posting every day. I could be if I wanted to - there's enough drama and material. There are lots of things I haven't posted. I'm pretty sure I did mention somewhere about the daycare payment being late though. I only just found out about the other arrears actually.
Anyway, you aren't here to give me advice which is all I hope to gain here. I don't really want to come here to hear that I'm a liar. We could all be lying to each other, it's a forum. You can't see the forest for the trees and many people have told you this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ange71727]

I actually dont buy this arrears thing, which is why I didn't comment. You only brought this up after I made many good points. If it were true I guarantee you would have started an angry thread about it when it happened, not just let us know non-nonchalantly to counter my post.


And this is why I've been calling BS. I didn't want to go back, but here we go:

Here is what you said in your very first post in odf:



Soo, you were sent a formal proposed agreement. Can we get past that now? To which you replied:


Please stop saying he never sent a formal proposal for 50/50. It's not looking good for your credibility .. because you actually wrote that he did.

If this were a father being caught the possee would be "all over you" regarding credibility. Luckily you're a mom...so you're all good with the other posters.


This has just become a dad bashing thread .. so you guys go on about how his spelling has improved since he met his g/f, how he only wants to be a good dad because of his new g/f .. or he only wants to see his kids for money purposes. Or how everything he does is case building (while you record your kids to build your case).

In my case these same posters kept me in line when I became sour about my ex and her actions. They encouraged me to stay focused on the FLR's, CLRA's. They helped in so many ways to achieve what I have today and I'll be forever grateful. But boy was I trampled if I complained about her character or villified her in any way. Funny how it all changes when it's a mom here.


Little things like moving closer to their school to make life easier for the kids? Or asking to have equal involvement in their life..and being rejected?

Struggling with scheduling does not make somebody a bad father. He tried to see his kids more equally (which would have included having his support system in place while he was at work).

You seem to forget Ange "empathetically said NO to 50/50". She disallowed him an equal relationship .. yes it's shitty that he gave up trying after her denials .. but it was denied nonetheless. He "did" in fact try to parent even when it wasn't convenient for him. He paid money to send that formal proposed agreement for 50/50. He was "DENIED" that opportunity. He even moved closer to their school. I hear nothing positive about that step either.

Posters need to stop their moaning and whining and go back to her first thread. You're all being "had" by the OP. She's here to validate her own thoughts about how terrible he is and vent, not get sound advice. I'm truly surprised that my fellow mother posters are simply joining in on it.

An annoying mate, but doesn't sound like a bad dad. Parallel parenting with 50/50 would have solved all of this crap. Too bad you denied his lawyers formal proposal for 50/50 in the beginning....but the least you can do is simply acknowledge that it was sent .. as you wrote it was early on.

Now we've determined that you've been caught in a lie again, lets get focused .. have you attempted any of 5 steps I suggested to help relieve communication issues so that a joint situation could work?

The thing about my threads is that my stories never ever changed. The truth is so easy to follow because I never had to remember any lies that I wrote, because there were none.

I don't need to remember lies either. Notice the word formal isn't in my post? This is because it wasn't a formal agreement. It was obviously hastily written before he even realized he couldn't actually swing it. When the FORMAL offer came (written on Offer to Settle paper) in it wasn't for 50-50. It wasn't even for 40%.
You can speculate that I "beat him into submission" or you can weigh the other facts I've presented and take the stance that he really didn't want it. As evidenced also by the fact that he turned down a week on week off summer. This is key actually. Why on earth turn down 50/50 in the summer if you want it all year too?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LovingFather32]

The facts are: yes he absolutely threw around the 50-50 idea at first.

He didn't throw it around. He paid his lawyer draft up a formal offer to settle for 50/50.

Anyway, you aren't here to give me advice which is all I hope to gain here.

Your thread was about sole or joint. I gave probably the best advice so far to go through a cancellation process of steps before going for sole. Have you considered my advice that was very relevant to this thread?

This is why 50-50 was all bluffing

When his lawyer sent you a formal offer to settle including a 50/50 request, why didn't you say yes if you thought it was a bluff? If it were all "talk" he wouldn't have paid his hard earned money to have his lawyer draft up the OTS for 50/50 .. especially if he's as much about money as you say.

Ask yourself, if he really wanted 50-50 then why did he turn it down for the summer? Would you?

He may have turned down week on week off .. but he still asked for an equal summer. 3 7 day stretches plus some of his days off would be half the summer. So he didn't turn down an equal summer, you two are just fighting over schedules.

I don't need to remember lies either. Notice the word formal isn't in my post? This is because it wasn't a formal agreement.

Ange .. if his lawyer prepared an offer to settle and sent it to you that is considered formal. You don't need an "offer to settle paper" for it to be formal.

It was obviously hastily written before he even realized he couldn't actually swing it.

But he didn't write it. He paid his lawyer to prepare the offer to settle correct? You should always take OTS's seriously.

You can speculate that I "beat him into submission" or you can weigh the other facts I've presented and take the stance that he really didn't want it.

My guess is that you threw around your staus quo angle and his lawyer and he decided to step back to avoid costs .. who knows? Can't help but wonder what things would be like now if you accepted though. You may have been pleasantly surprised.

You can't see the forest for the trees and many people have told you this.

I've been in the forest when the forest was burning down. I have a pretty good grasp on caselaw, FLR's, CLRA, affidavit writing and what judges look for. I see more than you think.

You're obviously a very bitter person and have a grudge against me.

I am not a bitter person at all and I have no grudge against you. Perhaps I get overly passionate about certain topics and for that I apologize. I really care about kids and I know ongoing familial conflict is no good for them. I feel I've contributed some good suggestions in this thread.

Like:

1. Have you bought 2 subscriptions to www.ourfamilywizard.com and sent him a copy to use?

2. Have you prepared a draft order for your subsequent court date outlining proper, infrequent, appropriate communication?

3. Do you ignore him or engage?

4. Have you offered a family counselor (or coordinator) to assist you both?

5. Have you prepared a request for a "parallel parenting regime"

You are tired of the ill communication (good Beastie Boys album) and I get that. But shooting for sole isn't the answer in my opinion, not before you try other things. Let him deny all the steps and get proof for the judge that he did. Then it's smooth sailing to sole.

[rockscan]

His lawyer didn't send a formal offer to settle for 50/50. You didn't read that part LF32. He sent an offer for HIS DAYS OFF which DID NOT AMOUNT TO 50/50.

In other words he told Ange if she didn't agree to reduce child support he would go for 50/50. She pretty much said go for it and he DIDN'T!

Her ex is not you and not any of the other dads on here fighting for 50/50. He wants to cut the money only. And when she says his gf is getting him involved thats a slight against his involvement over the time he was alone.

Can you please get a grip and let this crap go. This isn't a case for your soapbox.

[LovingFather32]

His lawyer didn't send a formal offer to settle for 50/50. You didn't read that part LF32. He sent an offer for HIS DAYS OFF which DID NOT AMOUNT TO 50/50.

Asking for 3 7 day stretches (21 days) + days off would certainly = a month and the summer is 2 months so Im not sure how he's not asking for an equal summer. But, I was actually talking about early on Rock. Ange is claiming that there was never a formal offer for 50/50. I'm simply trying to let her know that there was.

As seen in her very first thread.

I then received a proposed new agreement from his lawyer suggesting he get 50-50

She rejected the offer. Saying stuff like:

I have a hard time just saying here have your kids 50/50 after what he's been doing to me.

If a lawyer drafts up an OTS and sends it it is considered formal. I know he's not asking now. I just dont want to hear that he never has.

We wouldn't want her in trial saying there was no formal OTS for 50/50 when there's proof there was.

[rockscan]

Suggesting is the key word.

Your ex suggested you get nothing.

My partners ex suggested he pay her 20 grand.

Theres a difference between suggesting and a formal offer. His formal offer was less than 50/50.

Remember the tactics lawyers use. Send a letter saying you'll do x if you don't get y. If you don't get it we will fight for z. He didn't even do that. He only wanted to pay less while doing nothing. I think it speaks volumes that Ange is willing to go below table amounts when she is entitled to it just to make this go away.

[SadAndTired]

LF! You just "don't want to hear that he never has"?

Why? For God's sake, why do you care??

Perhaps everything is a lie? Maybe Ange is a 15 year old boy typing on a cheap cell phone with a broken screen?

Ask yourself LF if you think you have made your point to her clearly? If so, then let it go. Leave the woman alone. Making the same point over and over just makes you look obsessive. Isn't there some sort of disorder where a person has to be right all the time?

[LovingFather32]

LF! You just "don't want to hear that he never has"?

Why? For God's sake, why do you care??

Perhaps everything is a lie? Maybe Ange is a 15 year old boy typing on a cheap cell phone with a broken screen?

Ask yourself LF if you think you have made your point to her clearly? If so, then let it go. Leave the woman alone. Making the same point over and over just makes you look obsessive. Isn't there some sort of disorder where a person has to be right all the time?

Her lawyer sent a formal ots in the beginning. Im trying to let her know that its considered a formal offer. Its just a fact.

S&T .. Wasnt it you who called me a catfish...saying I wasn't who I actually was? Weren't you the broken record on every one of my threads backing my ex? Hmm...teapot?

Rock...a propsed offer to settle was sent in the beginning for 50/50. It was requested via a lawyer drafted letter. Ange uses the word suggested...but I highly doubt a lawyer would.

[rockscan]

Theres a difference (which my partner's lawyer has outlined to us) between an offer to settle and a letter. This wasn't an offer to settle. Plus it wasn't sent in the spirit of 50/50. He was obligated to update his child support and the letter was a threat that if she pushed to update child support to the table amounts he would seek 50/50. Thats not in any way shape or form an offer to settle. Thats a threat and blows away the spirit of negotiation. Considering that Ange had already agreed to lower child support than tables TO BEGIN WITH, his letter in the beginning was bullshit.

Let.It.Go. This guy is not in the running for father of the year. He isnt worth your harping.

[LovingFather32]

Ange herself wrote that she was turning down his 50/50 many times, but whatever, I can see I'm getting nowhere. lol

In the end make no mistake about me:

1. I lose all respect for fathers who dont pay their $$.
2. I lose all respect for fathers who dont fight tooth and nail for 50/50.

I'm more on Ange's side than ppl around here think. I'm simply proposing that she attempts other avenues before she goes for sole .. and I dont see that as bad advice. Do you guys?

[Ange71727]

LF - listen to me very carefully - at the start THERE WAS NO FORMAL OFFER TO SETTLE. I am the OP here. I would know wouldn't I? I was sent a letter from a lawyer that had suggestion bullet points in it. It was titled "Amending Agreement". One of the points was that we go from joint custody to shared custody and that his client "have an equal time-sharing" arrangement. No actual schedule was proposed at this time. This occurred AFTER he was reminded a million times to adjust the child support as per the terms of the agreement.
I said no to equal time sharing. Not denying that.
Then I sent several Offers to Settle his way. He declined each and every one in its entirety.
I finally received the one and only Offer to Settle from him in JUNE. In this Offer he asked for 3 additional overnights (which was a one day reduction from the court application that asked for 4 days) but wanted to cut the child support in half, drop daycare, clear up some of the other grey areas, drop the kids at the age of majority etc.
We mediated (twice) in which we agreed on the 3 extra days for him and negotiated the child support.
He got what he wanted - a few days extra and a major drop in his child support. I told you months ago in threads I am not going to go back and copy and paste from that when it got down to the negotiating table he was going to just "take the deal" because I was going to make it very lucrative for him. It is a great deal for him because he gets to save thousands per year. This is the hit I took when he isn't even at 50%. Do the math on 10 overnights in a month and see what percentage he is at. My kids are owed full table support but because this is the most freaking stressful thing I've ever gone through, I caved.
The two things I am not caving on? The summer negotiations which is the last piece before we settle. He wants three 7 day stretches and some extra days. You are right that it sounds like he's asking for an equal summer. I offered an equal summer but he doesn't want it because week on week off means he'd be working some of the time he has them. He wants the whole schedule to revolve around him so he can take the least possible amount of vacation time from the vacation bank for his kids and instead just try to use existing days off. He uses his vacation time for trips with the gf. I think he can be the one to concede a little on this matter.

The other item I refuse to give up on is the matter of his arrears. He refuses to respond to me about the money that needs to be released from FRO. I keep asking and reminding him that there will be no pen to paper on any deal until he puts every penny owed to his children into the FRO account so they can release the accrued funds to me after we refile any new agreement with them. He actually tried to barter with this money in mediation as well.

Hopefully this spells it out for you LF. You seem to literally be the only person who doesn't understand the facts. Please stop embarrassing yourself. I know you mean well but you saw red from the start when I said I didn't believe 50-50 was best in my case.

Arabian said it very well....stop trying to equate yourself to Ange's ex....you're better than him.

[Ange71727]

Also, I didn't say I was going for sole....I asked a question.