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  • Trying to figure out how to do an Offer to Settle

    Okay, so now I am without a lawyer, and I want to get some clarification before I do an offer to settle. It's been too long and I want to move forward.

    We had a house - he bought me out by offering money plus paying one of our joint debts. I'm good with that.

    We need to deal with our other equalization, so here is my confusion.

    QUESTION : How do I value these items ?
    We have household goods, (of which he has 80% and will not give me the items I've asked, - I've only asked for 10 items out of the lot, and...he wont.) I'm willing to not have any of that - but Question : Can I work out what the value of the household goods are (I have a list of all items etc)...and is it as of the date of separation, or is it the value of it as of today's date, i.e. replacement cost or is it what the item would be as of today (some of it is 16-1/2 years old, and not worth much, and some were purchased just prior to separation). I left the house with our daughter with nothing with the help of police (just to give you an idea as to why I did not take it then).

    QUESTION : His Tools , and "toys" of his trade and my tools and "toys" of my trade.
    I've put my items down for the value of what it is worth today - Mine comes up to about $ 2K. He is claming for 1/2 of mine.
    His tools come to about $ 40K at the very least. How do I get him to get a valuation of his tools. He refuses to allow me to claim my 1/2.
    How can I force him to get his tools valued so that I can claim my half? I have a list of quite a few of his items (it is not complete and it already comes up to about $ 35K)

    QUESTION : SPOUSAL SUPPORT
    Can it be written in the Offer to Settle that neither of us will claim spousal support against the other for the duration of our lives ?
    I was the stay at home mum for the past 10 years during the 16-1/2 years of our marriage, but it's going to be like banging my head against the wall if I request spousal support, or should I still try.

    QUESTION : SECTION 7 EXPENSES
    He's not paid for the past 3 years what he owes me for SEction 7 Expenses, which I am going to ask for, but moving forward, can I ask as part of the Offer to Settle that he pay a monthly support amount to cover Section 7 Expenses (based on the past 3 years ?) , and if so, do those things cover things like orthodonitsts bills, or are those supposed to be separate.
    This is separate from the monthly Child Suport that he is supposed to pay (which he is in default).

    I've got a few more questions, but I'd like to ask if anyone could help me answer some of these please.

    Thanks.
    Much appreciated.

  • #2
    Originally posted by E-Gal View Post
    Okay, so now I am without a lawyer, and I want to get some clarification before I do an offer to settle. It's been too long and I want to move forward.

    We had a house - he bought me out by offering money plus paying one of our joint debts. I'm good with that.

    We need to deal with our other equalization, so here is my confusion.

    QUESTION : How do I value these items ?
    We have household goods, (of which he has 80% and will not give me the items I've asked, - I've only asked for 10 items out of the lot, and...he wont.) I'm willing to not have any of that - but Question : Can I work out what the value of the household goods are (I have a list of all items etc)...and is it as of the date of separation, or is it the value of it as of today's date, i.e. replacement cost or is it what the item would be as of today (some of it is 16-1/2 years old, and not worth much, and some were purchased just prior to separation). I left the house with our daughter with nothing with the help of police (just to give you an idea as to why I did not take it then).
    Tha value of household items is typically about 'garage sale value', and most certainly never based on replacement value. Go online, kijiji etc and find similar items for sale and assign them a value based on the average price range for a similar item.


    QUESTION : His Tools , and "toys" of his trade and my tools and "toys" of my trade.
    I've put my items down for the value of what it is worth today - Mine comes up to about $ 2K. He is claming for 1/2 of mine.
    His tools come to about $ 40K at the very least. How do I get him to get a valuation of his tools. He refuses to allow me to claim my 1/2.
    How can I force him to get his tools valued so that I can claim my half? I have a list of quite a few of his items (it is not complete and it already comes up to about $ 35K)
    Everything gets listed, whether he wants to or not. If there are items missing then push for a complete disclosure.


    QUESTION : SPOUSAL SUPPORT
    Can it be written in the Offer to Settle that neither of us will claim spousal support against the other for the duration of our lives ?
    I was the stay at home mum for the past 10 years during the 16-1/2 years of our marriage, but it's going to be like banging my head against the wall if I request spousal support, or should I still try.
    anything can be written in, whether or not it's enforcable is something entirely different. You can agree to waive spousal, but if you qualify, I don't know why you would have it written that you waive it.


    QUESTION : SECTION 7 EXPENSES
    He's not paid for the past 3 years what he owes me for SEction 7 Expenses, which I am going to ask for, but moving forward, can I ask as part of the Offer to Settle that he pay a monthly support amount to cover Section 7 Expenses (based on the past 3 years ?) , and if so, do those things cover things like orthodonitsts bills, or are those supposed to be separate.
    This is separate from the monthly Child Suport that he is supposed to pay (which he is in default).

    I've got a few more questions, but I'd like to ask if anyone could help me answer some of these please.

    Thanks.
    Much appreciated.
    Do a search for Section 7 expenses and you will find tonnes of info on what is covered.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the info.
      Much appreciated.

      Comment


      • #4
        Question - to which I thought I had it right but..... I was informed that her jewelery and any other "very personal" to her possessions are hers and do not need to be valued. My tools, some of which are/were work tools are in our case my tools being very personal to me - and again do not get valued. This would be the equivalent to the clothes we own, which do not get valued as falling under completely personal to the spouse in question.

        Is this true or false??? I would add just for the arguement , if any, the tools which I guess are really prsonal to me - allowed her to enjoy every piece of furniature we owned (hardwood built with my own fingers - nice stuff too!) and for the heck of it one day I did a quick list of the net worth these tools increased her half, while she watched me from the sofa mainly..... but it came in at well over 250K..... a good sum of benefit..... at least I used them to the good of the entire family.

        I do know she wants 50% of it all (including the $10,000 I brought into the marriage which is a dream on her part..... is there an arguement for the valuation date value of what is over the fair value of the tools brought into the marriage??

        Comment


        • #5
          Silly question from me - wouldn't tools you speak of be considered "tools of your trade" and therefore excluded from division?

          Comment


          • #6
            Here are some links that might help you get started:

            Ontario property divorce laws

            Ontario Spousal Support (Alimony) Menu

            Comment


            • #7
              thank you both - this is a question that has been "on my board to figure out" (deal I have with my lawyer is that I can find anything written(not tools alone but anything relevant such as disability,personal damages, and.....): First by CANLII; and Second by a knowledgeable lawyer or professional, say by a court commisioned paper to review the findings found within the actual rulings for Disability Benefits within the Family Law Act for example). The latter I learned a great deal BTW! GOAL:reduce lawyers fees drastically, provide lawyer with useable arguements or defense to present to the judge should it sadly go that far.

              To The Point: - ex. Tools (I admit this may not answered - but it is my typical frustration, but this thread brought up issues presented by the OP in this case tools, my Lawyer did say:
              1>work tools are as Arabian described and I do have those I was: an industrial and automotive mecahnic and a precision fitter welder working on our Ontario Nuclear Power PLants and our Canadian Submarine Fleet upgrading program in the early 80's - and the arguement of the ex? you don't work! (true, today I am told I will never be able to work for a living but the tools are there and they did get used around the house)
              2>I came into the marriage with a good amount (the concept of list everything regardless, and lucky? Just a few years into the marriage as part of a school project I made a full inventory list of everything we had then (using lotus 123 - how is that for old ;-)) including my tools and their approx value then. the true figure on the list of what I brought into the marriage was $10,818.00.

              What really jumped off the 23 year old pages was the cost of so much stuff back then was 10 times what it is today - and more. so what I have is if I put a crazy number of what I have accumilated over the next 25 years say 20 or $30,000 and do the garage value of 25 0r 30%. My ex can't understand how with even using crazy numbers at 30% garage sale value is $9,000 which is less than the the items I brought in..... long post but can I add again her lawyer calls me bizzare for having a computer file and the printout from 1990 that says what we owned on very close to our date of marriage??? So what do you really respond to an answer of No?

              This now is not really a direct question but is the heart of the above: That for 25 years if something needed done, repaired, house, car, snow blower, plumbing, drywall, cement, ..... if you bought one tool you needed to complete each job saving hundreds to thousands each time - You end up with a good collection of tools, more savings left in the bank account and say for a house reno, you get to enjoy the fruits of your labour. Humour of the day to me is she darn was real happy about what the tool (s) gave her then; but today I am bizzare for owning them and even if wierd I do consider them to be personal to me, close to my heart and is the one pleasure I have that I can do at even my super slow pace which can keep me busy, give me exercise and most important - give my mind short distractions from the chronic pain that is "digging a hole in my brain".......???

              - Not much is easy here when the only response from the other side is no, nO, NO!!! Oops, and Bizzare? sorry for the wordy post.....

              Comment


              • #8
                The tool issue is interesting. My ex and I owned a trucking company and he had lots of tools, some even handed down to him from his father if I remembered correctly. At the time when I kicked him out of the house he was in a frenzy about his "tools." I knew they were quite valuable but what the heck did I want with a bunch of tools? He was free to take whatever he wanted. We did not factor those into any property settlement as there was no dispute. I kept my art and he kept his tools. We knew it wasn't worth fighting about. Had I not allowed him to take them he would have been within his rights to get police escort and retrieve them as they were the tools of his trade.

                I believe you have a 100% right to the tools of your trade whether you are currently working or not. Who is to say that you won't use these tools in a teaching capacity or to become a neighborhood handyman in the future. No one can predict the future and a miracle may happen and you may be able to some day return to work in a part time capacity. Where would you store these tools? Does she still have them? Is she likely to sell them or has she disposed of them already?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Right now all my things are in the house under order of the family law court (lawyer made sure of that at teh CC. The criminal arrest bail indicated I was allowed to only remove the very most personal of my belongings (this is whay my wife took my share of our tooth brush heads - because she said that when she asked for the divorce "our shared tooth brush belonged to her.... yes we had our own heads!! sorry i am gabby, BACK TO THE POST!!)

                  Normally you get under 10 min at the house - funny how the first time the officers met me at the door and we entered, they only asked why they were there? Why didn't your kids just bring your stuff? In we went, everything was moved and I could not find 75% of it, the police officers even chipped in to help me!! Second try, the officers arrived at the house first - when I arrived, right off the bat in there voices, words, tone and body language they treated me like a piece of Sh_T and did nothing to cut down the tension....... items found before my chest began to cave in...... maybe15% was found. I had to go, i drove off and made it 2 driveways and I had to pull over - that was the last time I tried.

                  Protection?? My son is there, he is using most of my stuff. He assured me that he would not let his mom touch, break, hurt, sell my stuff, my tools or the hometheatre projector and misc (was a present from mom - pre inheritance before she passed away - she insisted that I do it, she knew it was a dream of mine for decades and I always put family and security first... her words, you take this account, close it and I want to see it next time you bring me over for a visit. Sorry getting sentimental ;-(......

                  Yes I thought and told him that I couldn't do that - no way was I going to put him in any position, I had nowhere to put it, now the motel owner has offered to let me put what I can in the basement which now is 80% empty so if I am in a jamb it is an option. The owners have done so much for me and in their words, "ex or no ex, they just can't grasp my children and the few times they have come to see me....." I won't go there.... I am thankful every day that chance had landed me here after my arrest, the owners and their son's treat me like family... they are good people with great hearts.

                  To be honest, reading all about the bankrupcy, which I have been worried about since near the beginning, with what she did cashing out accounts like the RESP's to get my name off, her attempt to open overdrafts (which the bank put a stop to, that was her last move before the bank red flagged both of our accounts - to protect me and them as well. As mentioned many times, the bank has never seen what she has done, imagine with all their customers to be told that. I AM TERRIFIED that she is setting up for bankrupcy to avoid having to make any form of payment, I seriously believe that she is selling off her RRSP to hide it - courts do not seem to be hard on spouses who do this - they just make an order to repay $200 a month - then two months later she does the bankrupcy thing. PARANOID??? I am just not that sure any more.....

                  Comment

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