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  • Phone calls?

    How often if at all am I "required" to have my children call their father - I have temporary full custody. They are small, both under 8 yrs. old.

    In the beginning, he would text/call a few times a day, about twice a week - and I would ask my kids to call back. If ever they did not respond immediately, he would complain to his lawyer that I was "attempting to alienate the kids from him".

    He lied in his affidavit (said I used to beat him up with a bat and that I'm also so angry that I break other people's property during my "uncontrollable tantrums" - BTW, I'm all of 5 feet and 100lbs.) He also claims that my children are not fed.

    Anywhoo, during the time, he began interrogating the kids - asking them what I fed them, where I took them, who was there, what they saw on tv...etc, etc. I noticed that my older one would get stressed out when talking to him on the phone.

    I informed my lawyer and she asked through his lawyer that he stop questioning the children. He continued harassing me through text, so I requested via email that he no longer text me - unless for emergencies and that I would have kids CALL HIM every other day, no need for him to text me.

    Well, he has begun once again interrogating the kids and now also takes it upon himself to have them tell me how I should go about taking care of them - kids will come and tell me for ex: "Daddy says to give me tylenol and an ice pack for the elbow that I bumped earlier today" - Mr man, BTW never took care of these things while we were married.

    Basically, my question is - what to do now, if we solved the problem of his texting me but the questioning and interfering continues. I feel as though he is intruding in our daily lives. When the kids go with him he NEVER has them call me.

  • #2
    Ask your ex if he wants to go to court to have someone else decide when children should call their parent and to resolve all of the other petty issues - his choice.

    On many occasions when I have been sitting in family court waiting for my issues to be dealt with, I have observed lawyers battling about these very same issues. Total waste of money.

    You have to shrug off his remarks and merely tell your children positive things like you think he is a terrific father who does a good job looking after them. Hopefully the positive remarks will trickle back to him and he will stop sending the negative, overbearing remarks back via the children.

    He is probably just trying to set you off and obviously wants a reaction. Some people do this as a way to keep in contact with their ex's.

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    • #3
      Yep, I agree. It's called "Negative Intimacy" Some ex's thrive on it. It is their drug. They engage with you every chance they get to get a reaction. Stop reacting.

      My ex calls my kids every day. I think it is too much but when I suggested less, he flipped and started discrediting me too. If he can't get us, I tell him to leave a message if he wants them to call him back. My kids never want to call back but I make them. Demand the same from him. If you want to call your kids call them. You want them to call you back, ask for it.

      I don't call my kids every day they are with their dad unless they want me to. That is my choice not to disturb them. If he cannot or won't do the same don't try to make him. Allow him "reasonable access" to call the kids.
      Difuse the bomb by making it a non issue and the bs he does will eventually decrease. My ex stops calling as much whenever he gets a new girlfriend and gets busy. It starts again when they leave him and he wants to engage again. You are dealing with a full blown narcessist. Read up on it and it will help you manage by understanding their insecurities.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
        How often if at all am I "required" to have my children call their father - I have temporary full custody. They are small, both under 8 yrs. old.
        1. Twice in any 7 day period for which they do not see the other parent.

        2. The duration of the call should be the combined age of the children.

        Also, remind the other parent that the duration should be expected to last about their combined age in minutes but, that if they talk longer to the other parent it won't be a problem. As well, that children of their ages have short attention spans and it isn't a reflection on you or the other parent if the children only talk for the time of their combined age (say 6 minutes) or less. Consistency of the access is the key element.

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

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        • #5
          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          In the beginning, he would text/call a few times a day, about twice a week - and I would ask my kids to call back. If ever they did not respond immediately, he would complain to his lawyer that I was "attempting to alienate the kids from him".
          I would recommend you consider setting up a access call schedule. Just make an official offer to settle that outlines the call access schedule. If you can do it, I highly recommend you recommend doing the calls via video conference calls. It is more beneficial to the children and requires a schedule to coordinate. So you can set a schedule that on Monday at 7:00 PM there will be a skype call, with video, originating from your children to him.

          This curbs the "call any time" game that a lot of parents play. As well, visual and audio contact with the other parent is a much better form of access. They will get way more out of a video based call than a legacy "telephone call".

          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          He lied in his affidavit (said I used to beat him up with a bat and that I'm also so angry that I break other people's property during my "uncontrollable tantrums" - BTW, I'm all of 5 feet and 100lbs.)
          As always with allegations of abuse, there has to be cogent and relevant evidence to support any claim like this. Police incident reports, doctors reports, actual witness accounts who saw this conduct, etc... Not just a blanket statement or some story typed into an affidavit. A judge doesn't accept that which is put into an affidavit as "truth" based on a single accounting from the alleged victim.

          False allegations of intimate partner abuse are common before the courts and many people fabricate them or exagerate the interactions with the other parent.

          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          He also claims that my children are not fed.
          Not fed? That is a stretch to claim against someone as a blanket statement in an affidavit. Sure the judge wasn't impressed at all.

          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          Anywhoo, during the time, he began interrogating the kids - asking them what I fed them, where I took them, who was there, what they saw on tv...etc, etc. I noticed that my older one would get stressed out when talking to him on the phone.
          Now, I would be very careful with interpreting his intentions. What is he supposed to talk to the kids about if he has every other weekend access or less? Should he not ask what the kids did at daycare too that day? How the weather is? Both your children are under 8, these are common questions that a parent would ask when coming home from work of their child.

          What did you have for lunch at daycare?
          Did you have fun at daycare?
          Did you see your friends?
          Who is your best friend at daycare?
          What did you do with your best friend at daycare?

          It is how you get to know your child, be involved in their lives and demonstrate you are interested in their lives and want to know about them, how they feel and are interested in what they are doing.

          What do you propose he should be saying on the phone? What should an example conversation with the child be?

          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          I informed my lawyer and she asked through his lawyer that he stop questioning the children. He continued harassing me through text, so I requested via email that he no longer text me - unless for emergencies and that I would have kids CALL HIM every other day, no need for him to text me.
          Move all communications between the parents to Our Family Wizard. Get off SMS now as it is not immutable, not persistent and anything you get on it is useless evidence. SMS can be spoofed easily to appear from any phone number.

          Tools to simplify shared child custody. - Our Family Wizard - child custody, parenting time

          If you want to rely upon anything being stated to you and contain the over communications... OUR FAMILY WIZARD is what I strongly recommend (or a similar platform).

          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          Well, he has begun once again interrogating the kids and now also takes it upon himself to have them tell me how I should go about taking care of them - kids will come and tell me for ex: "Daddy says to give me tylenol and an ice pack for the elbow that I bumped earlier today" - Mr man, BTW never took care of these things while we were married.
          That isn't an example of interrogating the child. It is also doesn't demonstrate you in the best light as a parent in my opinion. Furthermore, you are interpreting what children, by your own statement, who are under 8 years of age are telling you.

          Try to see the statements from your children's eyes, at their level of perspective. You raise something like this in an affidavit as evidence and the judge will NOT be impressed with YOU.

          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
          Basically, my question is - what to do now, if we solved the problem of his texting me but the questioning and interfering continues. I feel as though he is intruding in our daily lives. When the kids go with him he NEVER has them call me.
          OUR FAMILY WIZARD

          Tools to simplify shared child custody. - Our Family Wizard - child custody, parenting time

          How long are the children with him? If just the weekend then generally a Custody and Access evaluator wouldn't recommend that the children have to call you. If the children want to call you they should be allowed to but, it should be up to the parent to decide on a 2 day span what is appropriate. See my other posting for the general guide lines for access telephone calls.

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

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          • #6
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Fed Up with the system View Post
              Yep, I agree. It's called "Negative Intimacy" Some ex's thrive on it. It is their drug. They engage with you every chance they get to get a reaction. Stop reacting.
              On the other hand, it may be the interpretations of an over anxious parent trying to play "child psychologist" before the court by having their lawyer claim what children under 8 years of age say.

              These are always the most gruesome motion hearings when one parent presents hearsay from their child against the other parent and attempt to use it to "gain control" over the other parent by trying to state they are "interrogating" the child.

              I highly do not recommend this kind of conduct before the courts and if truly emotional harm from statements are being made that the Children's Aid Society get involved rather than trying to use it as "evidence" against the other parent.

              First thing a judge will think is... If what is being said is so dangerous... Why didn't you call CAS? Why is this even in the affidavit? This is hearsay evidence from a parent claiming something that was said to them by the child was said to this child by the other parent. How does this reflect on the parent who even puts this kind of "evidence" into an affidavit? What does this say about the counsel representing them to even commission this affidavit? Who is truly the highly conflicted litigant in this matter? The parent who based on hearsay is supposedly saying something or the parent who actually puts this stuff into an affidavit or correspondence through their lawyer?

              Good Luck!
              Tayken

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              • #8
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                • #9
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                  • #10
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                    • #11
                      I wouldn't worry about the fact that your ex calls daily. While you may or may not find it intrusive, the ex is entitled to speak to the kids.

                      The kinds of questions are, for a lack of a better term, minor. Encourage the kids to answer honestly, so as not to cause them any stress.

                      An email to the ex stating that if he has any concerns with your parenting, that he direct them to you and to not put the children in the middle by asking them about how they are being parented. And if he has any real concerns, you are always willing to entertain them.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
                        Tayken
                        He is not asking them what they did at DAYCARE, like you suggest. I would have absolutely no problem with that.

                        It's more like this:

                        Did you eat dinner yet?
                        Why not? OR What did you eat for dinner?
                        Did your mother cook it or did she buy it from the restaurant?
                        Did your mother help you with your homework?
                        Your lips are chapped? Did your mother put chapstick on? What time? Tell her to do it now.
                        Did you go to your grandparents house today? What did they say to you?

                        An example of a conversation is something like what you suggested above, which I reiterate, I would be happy with.
                        What harm does this actually do? Also, to describe this as "interrogation" is possibly an exaggeration/strong statement so my advice would be to be cautious with how you use the word "interrogation" before the courts.

                        Furthermore, it is hard to take a one sided viewpoint from your interpretation of the conversations happening between the child and parent in question. Based on this thread and other threads for which you have made allegations the other parent is "controlling" a lot of the materials you present are very focused on the conduct of the other parent and not your own.

                        It is hard to determine if what you are providing is based on your own personal fears and/or anxieties and/or worries. (See the challenge a judge will have with the evidence you are providing?) Furthermore, I do not recommend you record the communications the other parent has with the children to "prove your point" to the courts. Generally, the judge will NOT be impressed.

                        If this is what you are trying to alleged as "abuse" (controlling, psychologically abusive) etc... It won't hold much water with a judge.

                        You are claiming that you have no privacy from the other parent.

                        Are you the Applicant before the court?

                        If so, prior to Applying to court your solicitor should have told you that your matter is being taken to a public system for dispute resolution and that your privacy in your life is over.

                        You could have private investigators following you, your public messages to message boards like this and other social media platforms can (and will) be brought forward as evidence and that the "best interests" of the children involved forgoes your personal privacy while matters are before the court. If you are the Respondent even, your solicitor should have told you this too.

                        It is perplexing that you claim that the other parent is violating your "privacy" while matters are before the court (a fully public system) and posting to a public message board making allegations against them that is indexed and searchable by Google, Bing, et all... Just making an observation.

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
                          What in the fresh hell?? I have NOT presented this to the court, I have NOT included this in my affidavits. I am NOT intending on bringing it up in court.
                          1. Please provide the particulars where I alledged you put this into an affidavit?

                          2. You provided particulars that you had your lawyer send a letter regarding the things being sent to children. Like it or not, if matters go on motion or to trial, that letter itself will be entered into the record more than likely against you to demonstrate you are possibly an over anxious and controlling person/parent.


                          Originally posted by impendingtruth View Post
                          That is the reason why I am asking on THIS FORUM, for IDEAS on how to handle this issue. WOW!! You have a way of turning things around, don't you??
                          That is why I stated explicitly: "I highly do not recommend this kind of conduct before the courts..."

                          Clearly, I have hit a nerve with you. As you have stated that the other parent is the one whom over reacts, has outbursts and is "controlling" I kindly ask you to re-read your response.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

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                          • #14
                            Impendingtruth: Not only were you shown a valuable link (Our Family Wizard) but you were also presented with the other side of the coin. Arguments which MAY come up against you. Instead of seeing the value of the information in that, it appears that the advice/commentary on this thread was offensive to you.

                            If you plan to proceed to Court, you had best develop the ability to see all angles and be prepared as to how to respond and put YOUR best argument forward in a way that the courts will view in a positive light.

                            You should re-read everything that has been presented to you here, and try very hard to see it, hear it and comprehend it in the spirit for which it was given. Take the emotion out. Set the anger aside. See the facts. How they may work for or against you, and how best to counter the ones that could bite you.

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                            • #15
                              I agree. Judges do not want to hear the he said, she said blaming that we all experience. They do not want to hear about parenting conflicts. Lawyers who insist on documenting all the nittygritty to put into the record are just racking up the costs. Fine if you want to submit an example of your inability to coparent but stop with the blame game. Slinging mud at each other will just increase the hostilities and put more money into your lawyers pocket.

                              Judges look at it this way. Shame on you both for acting immaturely. You are both to blame. Find your own solution. If you are looking for "justice" and a judge to side with you, you will not get it. They have zero patience for it. Do you not realize that they hear it everyday? Yours is not a unique situation, everyone going through divorce with very few exceptions have the same problem. Parties in court are there because they were not able to solve their own problems and are caught up in the blame.

                              You have to work things out with your ex or if you can't, find someone who can. Lawyers these days are recommending parenting coordinators and that is the route I am taking. I have had mixed feedback from people about them though. They have to have arbitrational powers to decide for you if the conflict cannot be resolved for one. Two, both parties should have a willingness to go through that process and recognize that they are doing so for the good of their children. That is the problem I am facing. My ex doesn't want to do it. He is too wrapped up in the blame game.

                              Good luck to you. Try to difuse it yourself. Do not waste money on lawyers and threatening custody because of your disputes. It will be a waste and make you and your ex enemies instead of what you shoud be, good parents for your children and doing what is best for them.

                              Another alternative is get a child social worker or pychologist for your children. Sometimes a third party can talk more sense into an ex as long as they do not feel like they are being attacked and they are being a good parent doing it for the sake of their children. Be prepared to learn also how to behave yourself and how you are effecting your kids.

                              All the best

                              Comment

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