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  • #16
    Forgot to mention this is a Case Conference...

    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    . After all, is this not a settlement conference where the two of you are supposed to find some common ground?

    Comment


    • #17
      Okay I printed out your thing.

      I think you can shorten things up considerably.

      Access Schedule:
      - The current schedule is not in the best interest of the children (because.... - one brief sentence).
      - The schedule (based on recommendation from OCL) was drafted at the time when Applicant was on Maternity leave.
      - The schedule did not contemplate the Applicant returning to work.
      - The Applicant is proposing to extend Monday & Wednesday until 8:00 PM (days respondent has access and applicant works).
      - The Respondent is proposing: xxx

      History

      - prior to separation the infant child (DOB xxxx) was jointly/equally cared for by the Respondent and the Applicant with no external child care.
      - grandparents did not provide regular, significant child care on a ongoing basis (or did they?).

      Current Situation:
      - The Applicant has returned to work. The Applicant works shifts (2 days/2 nights).
      - The Children's wake/sleep routine is 6:00 AM - 7:30 PM (any naps?).
      - Up until December 12th, 2016 the Applicant retained the services of (name Daycare).
      - In addition, since December 12th 2016 the Applicant has relied heavily on her parents to provide child care.
      - the child is currently in child care (XXX hrs/day/week) despite the Respondent's desire and availability to care for his children.

      Access Denied

      - The Applicant has denied access to the Respondent through the Christmas Holidays (2016) as well as on January 20th.
      - Applicant will only allow the paternal grandparents (Respondent's parents) access to the children during the Respondent's access time.

      Looking forward - Maximum Contact Principal

      - The Respondent is a capable, loving Father who wants to have a significant role in the raising of his children.
      - The Respondent seeks to work harmoniously with the Applicant to foster a positive parenting schedule which acknowledges importance of role of both parents in children's future.

      etc.

      I'd really try (I know it's hard) to keep mud-slinging out.
      Some things in your points seemed to contradict so be very careful.
      I think if you come across as a humble, generous person (even though you want to choke her LOL) who realizes that parenting isn't a game of perfect, you will do fine.

      You might want to lay out some things about your willingness to attend "parenting after separation" courses with her in the future and that you are open to explore any other ideas she has .... You end up looking really, really good and sincere.
      Last edited by arabian; 01-28-2017, 01:03 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Background:

        The applicant and I married on x day. We lived together after marriage.

        when we lived together, i was a very attentive father and cared for our child equally. There was never any concerns of my parenting when we lived together.

        persuant to orde of J hokinpuks, i have access as follows:

        the orde was influenced by an ocl report. The OCL report was drafted when the Application was on Maternity leave and the child was approximately 8 months old


        Access
        The current access schedule is not in the best interest of the children

        The applicant is willing to amending the Access schedule to extend Mondays and Wednesday until 8pm on the days that she works

        The current schedule offers no routine for the children and does not specify who cares with the children. The child is often confused as to who is picking him up. The school teacher suggested we provided the children with a visual calendar to help her. I firmly believe that the pickup and drop offs should be implemented in a consistent routine.


        Changes in circumstance:


        the judgment was structured upon the tender years of the children. If the parties had contemplated the children attending school, it is anticipated that detailed provisions relating to the sharing of school holidays and alternate arrangements for pickup and return of the children would have been included in the agreement.

        i. [The child] is no longer a baby. She is of an age where it is reasonable for her to spend more time away from her mother and has a need to spend more time with her father.

        The father’s work schedule has changed such that he is now able to provide full-time care on a predictable schedule and thus his ability to meet [the child’s] needs has changed in a fundamental way.

        The applicant has retained employment with long shift works which includes a combination of nights and day shifts, leaving the child with daycare for extended periods of time. This is a very significatn material change, which if known at hte time, would have resulted in a different order.

        The applicant schedule is based on 12hrs shift works. She works 2Day Shifts and 2 Night Shifts.


        The applicant parents are now available to provide care. I believe this is time that the child should enjoy with me as his.her parent.

        efforts to increase access
        The applicant has a history of denying me any extra time with our child.

        Jan 20th I finished work early and contacted the applicant to pick up the children early 3:30 as oppsed to 4:00. The applicant informed the respondent that A2 was sleeping. However the applicant was at work and her parents were caring for the children.

        I asked for overnight access during Christmas of 2015. The applicant denied this request. Furthermore on the 2 day of the Xmas schedule. THis concerns me because the applicant is unilaterally setitng our times with our child without any concern of my wishes.

        The applicant has made unfounded allegations agiainst me

        conclusion

        The respondents proposed schedule is in the best interest of the children; allowing them maximum contact with both parents

        The proposed schedule is the a viable solution to eliminate the need for 3rd party caregivers

        The proposed schedule was in effect prior to the separation

        The proposed schedule would benefit the children, the applicant and respondent

        The proposed schedule would allow the applicant to enjoy a meaningful and continious contact with the children


        And I strongly urge you to read up all of the case law and referenced articles posted in the 50-50 debate thread.

        and get a good lawyer to read over all that
        Last edited by trinton; 01-28-2017, 01:46 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Good morning.

          I'm having a hard time locating a link to the family law article online.

          I have found the CLRA link off another post on this site.

          I found snip it's of the family laws.

          What i`m looking for is section that should be applied when making a judgement on my motion.

          16(10) of the Divorce Act which states “the court shall give effect to the principle that the child of the marriage should have as much contact with each spouse as is consistent with the best interests of the child.”

          My oldest son keeps asking to be with me. I know he's young. However his mother denies him this.


          Article 9(1): States Parties shall ensure that a child shall not be separated from his or her parents against their will, except when competent authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures, that such separation is necessary for the best interests of the child. Such determination may be necessary in a particular case such as one involving abuse or neglect of the child by the parents, or one where the parents are living separately and a decision must be made as to the child’s place of residence.

          Article 9(3): States Parties shall respect the right of the child who is separated from one or both parents to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis, except if it is contrary to the child’s best interests.

          I read somewhere a subsection where what ever the parent did previously would not be held against him. Not that I did anything wrong. But would like to reference it.


          Originally posted by trinton View Post
          Background:

          The applicant and I married on x day. We lived together after marriage.

          when we lived together, i was a very attentive father and cared for our child equally. There was never any concerns of my parenting when we lived together.

          persuant to orde of J hokinpuks, i have access as follows:

          the orde was influenced by an ocl report. The OCL report was drafted when the Application was on Maternity leave and the child was approximately 8 months old


          Access
          The current access schedule is not in the best interest of the children

          The applicant is willing to amending the Access schedule to extend Mondays and Wednesday until 8pm on the days that she works

          The current schedule offers no routine for the children and does not specify who cares with the children. The child is often confused as to who is picking him up. The school teacher suggested we provided the children with a visual calendar to help her. I firmly believe that the pickup and drop offs should be implemented in a consistent routine.


          Changes in circumstance:


          the judgment was structured upon the tender years of the children. If the parties had contemplated the children attending school, it is anticipated that detailed provisions relating to the sharing of school holidays and alternate arrangements for pickup and return of the children would have been included in the agreement.

          i. [The child] is no longer a baby. She is of an age where it is reasonable for her to spend more time away from her mother and has a need to spend more time with her father.

          The father’s work schedule has changed such that he is now able to provide full-time care on a predictable schedule and thus his ability to meet [the child’s] needs has changed in a fundamental way.

          The applicant has retained employment with long shift works which includes a combination of nights and day shifts, leaving the child with daycare for extended periods of time. This is a very significatn material change, which if known at hte time, would have resulted in a different order.

          The applicant schedule is based on 12hrs shift works. She works 2Day Shifts and 2 Night Shifts.


          The applicant parents are now available to provide care. I believe this is time that the child should enjoy with me as his.her parent.

          efforts to increase access
          The applicant has a history of denying me any extra time with our child.

          Jan 20th I finished work early and contacted the applicant to pick up the children early 3:30 as oppsed to 4:00. The applicant informed the respondent that A2 was sleeping. However the applicant was at work and her parents were caring for the children.

          I asked for overnight access during Christmas of 2015. The applicant denied this request. Furthermore on the 2 day of the Xmas schedule. THis concerns me because the applicant is unilaterally setitng our times with our child without any concern of my wishes.

          The applicant has made unfounded allegations agiainst me

          conclusion

          The respondents proposed schedule is in the best interest of the children; allowing them maximum contact with both parents

          The proposed schedule is the a viable solution to eliminate the need for 3rd party caregivers

          The proposed schedule was in effect prior to the separation

          The proposed schedule would benefit the children, the applicant and respondent

          The proposed schedule would allow the applicant to enjoy a meaningful and continious contact with the children


          And I strongly urge you to read up all of the case law and referenced articles posted in the 50-50 debate thread.

          and get a good lawyer to read over all that





          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

          Comment


          • #20
            It honestly sounds like you've done your homework. Arabian and Trinton have given you some good stuff also.

            I hope your CC brief was...."brief".

            Mr Toronto once told me to pretend my pen would run out of ink after a few sentences, so make them count and rarely should each point be more then 2 sentences.

            Depending on how the judges morning commute went and how their coffee tastes, they'll be looking for the party slinging the most garbage to pounce on. Keep garbage out. Only relevant stuff with documents to back it up.

            EVERYTHING has to be how the children will benefit.

            1. Kid "WANTS" to be with you more. Not sure how you can prove it but thats huge!

            2. Need judicial intervention. OP is inflexible on access, etc.

            3. REASONABLE: "I will always promote and respect the mothers role ion the children's life"...our children deserve and "WANT" an equal relationship with both of us.

            4. MAXIMUM CONTACT: Hammer this down the courts throat. Use caselaw .. there's a ton of it.

            5. ORGANIZATION:

            Have a copy of your brief, including exhibits and a few examples of caselaw with you.

            - Highlight points you want to focus on and be sure you know how to direct the judges eyes to it FAST: i.e - Your honor, on Page 12, para 4, exhibit 2, there's another e-mail denying my child access to me...etc.

            PARENTING PLAN:

            Go in there with a solid ass parenting plan. Every angle must be covered (pick ups, drop offs, etc). Make it iron clad.

            I forget if there are accusations of abuse, drugs, etc. But bringing in a hair follicle test, etc and/or a clean police record would be attractive to a judge.

            __________________________________________________ _______________[

            Remember,

            Your sole objective in the CC is to get an endorsement in your favor. Endorsements are paper trials that future judges rely on heavily for subsequent judgements. Judges usually put little invisible messages and nuances for their buddy judges to read. GET THAT ENDORSEMENT. If you get one in your favor, consider it analogous to winning a motion.
            Get the endorsement by speaking in a low, non-aggressive tone, remaining reasonable and resolution-focused, organized and sticking to the best interests of the child. Some of the things you hear will make your blood boil....don't feed in to it. She will make this about "YOU". You will make it about how it will be good for KIDS. The second the judge sees both parents are mud slingers, you're both screwed. Be the bigger person.
            Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-28-2017, 01:50 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
              It honestly sounds like you've done your homework. Arabian and Trinton have given you some good stuff also.

              I hope your CC brief was...."brief".

              Mr Toronto once told me to pretend my pen would run out of ink after a few sentences, so make them count and rarely should each point be more then 2 sentences.

              Depending on how the judges morning commute went and how their coffee tastes, they'll be looking for the party slinging the most garbage to pounce on. Keep garbage out. Only relevant stuff with documents to back it up.

              EVERYTHING has to be how the children will benefit.

              1. Kid "WANTS" to be with you more. Not sure how you can prove it but thats huge!

              2. Need judicial intervention. OP is inflexible on access, etc.

              3. REASONABLE: "I will always promote and respect the mothers role ion the children's life"...our children deserve and "WANT" an equal relationship with both of us.

              4. MAXIMUM CONTACT: Hammer this down the courts throat. Use caselaw .. there's a ton of it.

              5. ORGANIZATION:

              Have a copy of your brief, including exhibits and a few examples of caselaw with you.

              - Highlight points you want to focus on and be sure you know how to direct the judges eyes to it FAST: i.e - Your honor, on Page 12, para 4, exhibit 2, there's another e-mail denying my child access to me...etc.

              PARENTING PLAN:

              Go in there with a solid ass parenting plan. Every angle must be covered (pick ups, drop offs, etc). Make it iron clad.

              I forget if there are accusations of abuse, drugs, etc. But bringing in a hair follicle test, etc and/or a clean police record would be attractive to a judge.

              __________________________________________________ _______________[

              Remember,

              Your sole objective in the CC is to get an endorsement in your favor. Endorsements are paper trials that future judges rely on heavily for subsequent judgements. Judges usually put little invisible messages and nuances for their buddy judges to read. GET THAT ENDORSEMENT. If you get one in your favor, consider it analogous to winning a motion.
              Get the endorsement by speaking in a low, non-aggressive tone, remaining reasonable and resolution-focused, organized and sticking to the best interests of the child. Some of the things you hear will make your blood boil....don't feed in to it. She will make this about "YOU". You will make it about how it will be good for KIDS. The second the judge sees both parents are mud slingers, you're both screwed. Be the bigger person.

              Great advice from someone who went through this not too long ago.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                It honestly sounds like you've done your homework. Arabian and Trinton have given you some good stuff also.

                I hope your CC brief was...."brief".
                LF32 i'm really happy you chimmed in here... I value your opinion and experience in these matters.

                My brief is "BRIEF", however i've inlcuded several TABs in order to further clarifying my points. I have a total of 29 items enumerated in my brief. I have a total on 10 Tabs within it.

                These tabs include:
                • Calendar explaning the current access & how it's not in the best interest of the children
                • Calendar with the proposed access schedule and how it's in the best interest of the children
                • CASE LAW Izyuk v Bilousov 2011 ONSC 7476: - Schmidt v. Haley, 2004 CanLII 34344 (ON S.C.)
                • Email of the applicant not notifying me where the children are when there's a change in the pickup locaitons
                • Email of the application refusing to modify the access unless its in her favor
                • Email of the respondant (me) trying to amically resolve the issue
                • pictures of the respondant (me) doing activities with the children ; camping; fishing; .....
                • Incident reports of A5 issues at school
                • copy of a diploma of a communication class order during the last SC


                Would it be usefull to post it here? I know it's kind of late as i've already filed it.

                Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                2. Need judicial intervention. OP is inflexible on access, etc.
                3. REASONABLE: "I will always promote and respect the mothers role ion the children's life"...our children deserve and "WANT" an equal relationship with both of us.
                4. MAXIMUM CONTACT: Hammer this down the courts throat. Use caselaw .. there's a ton of it.
                5. ORGANIZATION:
                MAXIMUM CONTACT
                Can you maybe point me to a few caselaw that you know of where this was applied?

                Need judicial intervention:
                I think this should be obvious to the judge as I filed a motion. MY CC brief demonstrates how i've tried to resolve this issue amicably. The OP said she would get back to me within 2-3 days... however never did.. I had to file a this motion to seek resolution.

                ORGANIZATION:
                I have this covered for sure... I have my CC brief and the document above to make sure I stay on track

                Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                I forget if there are accusations of abuse, drugs, etc. But bringing in a hair follicle test, etc and/or a clean police record would be attractive to a judge.
                This has already been discussed at lenght by the OCL and the previous CC, SC.... They haven't addressed these issue in the motion and I don't intend on addressing them either.


                Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                Your sole objective in the CC is to get an endorsement in your favor. Endorsements are paper trials that future judges rely on heavily for subsequent judgements. Judges usually put little invisible messages and nuances for their buddy judges to read. GET THAT ENDORSEMENT. If you get one in your favor, consider it analogous to winning a motion.
                Get the endorsement by speaking in a low, non-aggressive tone, remaining reasonable and resolution-focused, organized and sticking to the best interests of the child. Some of the things you hear will make your blood boil....don't feed in to it. She will make this about "YOU". You will make it about how it will be good for KIDS. The second the judge sees both parents are mud slingers, you're both screwed. Be the bigger person.
                Do I request this at the begining or at the end?
                What is the likelyhood the judge would order anything during the CC?


                Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                She will make this about "YOU".
                Did you read their response? LOL. This is totaly the case. They even drag my GF into the response. More false allegations; not changing diapers and sending the children back dirty.

                Re: dirty she has send A5 to school with a nasty A$$ lunchbox....to the point where the teacher send an e-mail.. I had initially intended on using it to deffent this item, however this would not be kid focussed.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Good morning Again

                  So I've done more homework and found the following cases where the theory/princicle of the Maximum contact prevailed. LF32 most of my searches point back to your posts

                  Thank god for the internet, I pitty parents self-representing years ago!!!

                  Maximum contact Case Law
                  • Benko v Torok, 2013 ONCJ
                  • Cavannah v. Johne 2008 Ont. S.C.J. “Maximum Contact Rule Prevails”
                  • Young v Young [1993] 4 SCR 3


                  SUB-NOTE -> I've found the link to the Divorce Act and have linked to it for others

                  Here's the section in the Divorce Act that describes this principle/theory
                  Section 16(10) of the Divorce Act which states:

                  Maximum Contact
                  In making an order under this section, the court shall give effect to the principle that a child of the marriage should have as much contact with each spouse as is consistent with the best interests of the child and, for that purpose, shall take into consideration the willingness of the person for whom custody is sought to facilitate such contact.

                  ENDORSEMENT:

                  The MINUTES OF SETTLEMENT then become a JUDGE'S ENDORSEMENT. An endorsement is what the Judge writes down as his/her ORDER.

                  The JUDGE'S ENDORSEMENT, is then written up into a DRAFT COURT ORDER. If the parties have lawyers, this is done by one of the lawyers. The other lawyer, then must approve the DRAFT COURT ORDER as to it's form (the way its drafted - who was there, indicating whether this is a temporary or final order) and content (what it the Court Order actually says, who will do what, when they will do it, etc.).

                  Once approved by the other lawyer, the DRAFT COURT ORDER then goes back to the Family Court, where it is compared either by the Judge, or a Clerk of the Court against the ENDORSEMENT.

                  If the DRAFT COURT ORDER and ENDORSEMENT match, and the form is technically correct, the ORDER is APPROVED and then is ISSUED under a COURT SEAL.

                  The COURT ORDER is now ENFORCEABLE, within the limits proscribed by law.


                  If I understand this correctly; if the judge agrees this process should be invoked automatically.

                  Therefore I shouldn't have to request it?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Time for an update.

                    Went to the Mini CC yesterday. The master didn't like my brief... LF you were right.

                    I did however manage to get a few thing consented on:

                    - 3rd party caregiver schedule
                    - ability to make requests to 3rd party caregiver

                    Part of me wishes I would have asked for a reassessment from the OCL.

                    The OP lawyer is drafting the minutes...

                    What are your thoughts on this? I know there's no way to go back in time...

                    FULL CC on may 26

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I am curious. We have many people post on here seeking help with their briefs. You say the master/judge didn't like your brief. Could you elaborate on that?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by arabian View Post
                        I am curious. We have many people post on here seeking help with their briefs. You say the master/judge didn't like your brief. Could you elaborate on that?


                        She said it wasn't brief enough for a "mini-conference"

                        Said mini biefs should be 4 pages or less

                        Said it actually looked more like A CC brief.



                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Im going to be working on my next brief.

                          I would appreciate feedback.

                          Do people normally post them online for review?


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Anybody?


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              It's time for an update.

                              Since filing for my Motion to change "Access" the OP has tried to invalidate the material change but no longer hiring the 3rd party caregiver and reverting back to her parents caring for the children.

                              The problem is that this is not a long term solution, the long term solution would be to have me care for the children as opposed to anybody else;
                              ie: her parents or the nanny.

                              Also, since filing for the Motion to change I have been forced for financial reasons to sell my property and move with my GF. I was on the vierge of going bankrupt.

                              The OP lawyer has request I complete form 35.1. Do I have to comply to this request?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                The short answer is yes you do. A new Financial Statement has to be filed whenever there is a change in financial circumstances .. or there is a court date coming up where finances will be discussed.

                                But this won't be such a bad thing for you. You will be able to Illustrate what her thirst for court has been doing to you financially.

                                Regarding her parents looking after the kids....the parent should have first dibs on this. (So you should be able to see your kids before her parents)

                                She has denied you any increases in access and I believe a judge told her that a Material Change in Circumstance would be if her parents grew ill and she had to find a sitter. I believe they did fall ill and your ex actually was on a search for a nanny. Now she's forcing her ill parents to care for the child again.... Not to fair for her ill parents just for a court tactic ... but what are you going to do.

                                YOU'RE still the parent....you come before grandparents ... period.

                                Comment

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