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  • Separation and Child Support 50/50 and offset.

    Hi all
    I am just writing to see if I am on right page with my separation with husband.
    We created Separation Agreement letter from template from LawDepot.ca.

    We will have joint custody, 50 % with me 50 % with him. Simple. We don’t have any conflicts, we are in agreement.
    I am earning double then he and I am putting in separation agreement that I am paying him 600 $ and he is paying me 1000$ every moth. Somebody on this forums suggested doing like this instead of mentioning only offset of 400 $ what has to be paid.

    After he paid me offset we are splitting any additional cost RESP , ski trips ETC to 50-50 %.

    Does he have to pay me this offset even if we have 50/50 % shared custody? I think answer is yes, but it is better double check with somebody from these forums.
    We balanced salaries with this offset and after that we share 50/50 % additional cost ? Am I correct with this?

    Does anybody have slight clue how much would cost if I bring finished Separation Agreement to lawyers for independent review? We are talking in hundred thousand or ten thousands ?
    Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.

  • #2
    We will have joint custody, 50 % with me 50 % with him. Simple. We don’t have any conflicts, we are in agreement.
    Good for you guys!

    I am earning double then he and I am putting in separation agreement that I am paying him 600 $ and he is paying me 1000$ every moth. Somebody on this forums suggested doing like this instead of mentioning only offset of 400 $ what has to be paid.
    Please clarify... if you are making double, you should be paying more in CS, not the other way around...I assume this was just a typo?


    After he paid me offset we are splitting any additional cost RESP , ski trips ETC to 50-50 %.

    Does he have to pay me this offset even if we have 50/50 % shared custody? I think answer is yes, but it is better double check with somebody from these forums.
    We balanced salaries with this offset and after that we share 50/50 % additional cost ? Am I correct with this?
    Expenses that fall under normal CS should be split 50-50, clothing, pizza lunches, inexpensive school trips, however Section 7 & extraordinary expenses should be split proportionate to income. Depending on what your incomes are, most things may not be extraordinary, but if his income is only $25K and yours is $50K, a ski trip that costs $2000 can be seen as extraordinary and it would be a lot harder for him to manage the $1000 than it would you, which is why it should be split by income, 33% him and 67% you...however CS should be factored in, so if he is getting $400 a month in CS that could bring his income to around $30k, meaning the split should be 37.5% him and 62.5% you... it really is a numbers game, but sometimes splitting the costs 50-50 is not valid, even in a 50-50 situation.

    Does anybody have slight clue how much would cost if I bring finished Separation Agreement to lawyers for independent review? We are talking in hundred thousand or ten thousands ?
    Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
    Cost is dependent on you... a couple hours with a lawyer could be upwards of $1000, which will be cheap compared to the legal costs you both would pay if you allowed a lawyer to try and "get you a better deal". You both should get independent legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re - Ski Trip.

      It really depends on the trip. I mean, if the kid is in competitive skiing and the trip is in relation to that, it is an s7 expense should be split proportionally to income.

      If one parent is taking the kid on a ski trip/vacation, that is on the parent who is going and not a s7 expense. That is a gift from that parent to the child and does not involve the other parent.

      If it is an option school trip, than it may fall under s7, but not a guarantee.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        We will have joint custody, 50 % with me 50 % with him. Simple. We don’t have any conflicts, we are in agreement.
        Full joint custody with equal access (50-50).

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        I am earning double then he and I am putting in separation agreement that I am paying him 600 $ and he is paying me 1000$ every moth.
        I would double check this as if you are the higher income earner you should be paying the other party, on the offset of both full table amounts of child support, the difference of 1000-600 which is $400.

        Is it correct to assume that you pay the offset of the CS to the other parent in the amount of $400 per month?

        You can also leverage the following website, which is provided by Divorcemate to double check the exact amounts based on both parents line 150:

        MySupportCalculator.ca

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        Somebody on this forums suggested doing like this instead of mentioning only offset of 400 $ what has to be paid.
        You should be identifying in your agreement that you are full joint custodial parents with equal access and residency shared 50-50.

        That child support will be paid and determined using the offset method as defined in the guide lines.

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        After he paid me offset we are splitting any additional cost RESP , ski trips ETC to 50-50 %.
        You can both pay into your own RESP for the chlidren. When it comes time to pay then, that matters. I wouldn't recommend coming to any agreement about RESP investment. It is great if you can but, situations change, incomes change etc... If you are both reasonable people and are child focused you should be able to independently of each other save the appriorate funds for school without needing an agreement.

        Also, a court will only really deal with the S.7 on this when the child actually goes to school and needs the support. No judge will order someone to invest into something that the child may never use. The child may not go to school etc... They don't order on the "what if".

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        Does he have to pay me this offset even if we have 50/50 % shared custody?
        If we go from your above statement, you should be paying him offset if you make double.

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        I think answer is yes, but it is better double check with somebody from these forums.

        We balanced salaries with this offset and after that we share 50/50 % additional cost ? Am I correct with this?
        You really need to understand what defines a Special and Extraordinary expense. (S.7 Expense)

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        Does anybody have slight clue how much would cost if I bring finished Separation Agreement to lawyers for independent review? We are talking in hundred thousand or ten thousands ?
        It all depends on the quality of the template leveraged, currency with common law and if it is up to date. It all depends on the lawyer providing ILA too. My finger in the air estimate is that you will need at minimum 7.5 hours of time with the lawyer at minimum to get "proper" ILA.

        Most "good" lawyers are between 250-500 an hour.

        $250 (per jour) * 7.5 (hours) * 1.13 (HST) = $2,118.75
        $500 (per hour) * 7.5 (hours) * 1.13 (HST) = $4237.50

        So, it would be reasonable, in my honest opinion, to expect to have to pay an up front retainer on a SA from $2,500 to $5000.

        Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
        Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
        There are plenty of examples but, they need to consider undue influence. As you have joint custody and joint residency in your agreement, there isn't any animosity probably, no incidents of intimate partner abuse against either party, or power imbalance the argument is hard to make before a court when enforcing the agreement.

        The other thing to consider is, that if the agreement does something that obstructs the rights of the children or a third party not subject to the agreement then, it would not be worth the paper it is written on.

        Simple example, any SA where the parents agree to no child support being paid would be overturned in a second by a court as child support is the "right of the child" and not the "right of the parents".

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #5
          It all depends on the lawyer providing ILA too. My finger in the air estimate is that you will need at minimum 7.5 hours of time with the lawyer at minimum to get "proper" ILA.

          Most "good" lawyers are between 250-500 an hour.
          ILA depends upon the complexity of the issues and assets involved.

          While it can easily take 7.5 (or more) hours to go through all of the information and have frank discussions about rights and obligations, it can also in certain circumstances occur in fewer than 3 hours total.

          If the issues are not complicated you can save money by going to a less experienced lawyer. Fees in the 150-200 range are common for lawyers with under 4 years experience, or 200-250 for lawyers with 5-9 years experience.

          Pay as much as necessary for the least expensive services to do a sufficient job. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
            ILA depends upon the complexity of the issues and assets involved.

            While it can easily take 7.5 (or more) hours to go through all of the information and have frank discussions about rights and obligations, it can also in certain circumstances occur in fewer than 3 hours total.

            If the issues are not complicated you can save money by going to a less experienced lawyer. Fees in the 150-200 range are common for lawyers with under 4 years experience, or 200-250 for lawyers with 5-9 years experience.

            Pay as much as necessary for the least expensive services to do a sufficient job. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for.
            I would say that this is a totally excellent recommendation and should be considered in light of the poster's screen name as well.

            Complexity of the situation drives the time it takes for a lawyer to go through everything and make sure you are advised properly. (See above quote in bold which I agree with 100%.)

            Just to poke at OrleansLawyer in fun... Children are not really an "asset" but the "responsibility" of parents and the most complex and confusing element of any SA for most parties to a SA. If there are no children involved in the matter (no custody and access to agree upon) then, the estimates provided are quite reasonable.

            Good Luck!
            Tayken
            Last edited by Tayken; 01-24-2013, 12:44 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Children are not really an "asset"
              I agree, but the courts tend to frown on arguments that they are liabilities...

              Comment


              • #8
                Because they are a capital investment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Samatha-2000 View Post
                  Any clue or statistics from field about court making invalid Separation Agreement because we did not have Independent Legal Advice. If that number is 20-30 % I would definitely look for lawyer, but if number is 1-2 % I would not.
                  Just to be clear, it is not the court that 'makes it invalid'. It is when your EX changes their mind about what they agreed to, and then manages to convince the court that they signed something unreasonable as a result of not understand their rights (and/or because they were coerced/intimidated/blackmailed into signing).

                  YOU get ILA to protect your EX, and your EX gets ILA to protect YOU.

                  One specific thing - CRA (Canada revenue agency) has its own rules on who will claim the CCTB. In your situation, they require that you will both share the claim i.e. you alternate years, or they split each year 6mo - 6 mo. So stating anything else in your agreement would be invalid.
                  There may be other examples of this sort of thing - possibly for pensions (e.g. indicating one party will cash out half of their pension, when the pension plan is locked in)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mess View Post
                    Because they are a capital investment.
                    With a year-over-year operational expense for parents of love, time, patience and understanding.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you everybody contributing to my thread.
                      I decided to take hybrid solution. I will go to see lawyer for initial 400 $ meeting. I will prepare list of questions and gave him my drafted separation agreement to take a look and tell me what he thinks.
                      If he find some small unrelated stuff missing from agreement, I will just sing with my wife in front of witnesses without any lawyer.
                      If he finds some big issues with that agreement I might ask him to draft me by himself.

                      Comment

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