Need help dealing with hubby's ex wife :(

[Buttercup123]

My husband was married for about 2 years & had a child with his ex. When we decided to get married, he had to hire a lawyer as she had refused to divorce him in the past. My hubby always paid his child support, sent her money when she asked for it & even kept their joint account open & deposited money in case she needed it (he is military & wanted to be sure $$ there if she couldn't reach him). During divorce she came back with receipts for things he already paid for & he had to pay it all again! Lesson learned. He was medically released & income decreased drastically yet he continued to pay her almost $1000 a month. On the plus side she finally allowed him to spend time with the child. When he finally told her he couldn't afford it anymore, the child called him & said didn't want to see him again. It's finally at conciliation & she's saying wants cell phone paid, braces. He's told her for over 2 years how it works with his plan - I guess she wants $6000 cash? She did not respond to conciliator so now it's court. In the last 2 weeks she has emailed him over $1600 in receipts- sports club which he paid- clothing, laptop with computer programs, etc. when he said he did not have $800 but he does have 30 days to pay, she said see u in court. She even got the child to email & say things would have to be returned or she couldn't pay her mortgage if he didn't pay! Can she not respond, throw a ton of receipts at him & then use it in court now?

[murphyslaw]

Is there any actual court orders in place?Well in my opinion you should be keeping every single email she sends or sends through the child .She is clearly alienating the child and is pretty brazen about it.Your man is only obliged to pay table amount and that's it.As for soccer and sports etc-that's all section 7.Both parents have to agree and pay 50/50 on those If he doesn't agree about the sports he doesn't have to pay.As for access and visitation ...the court doesn't take well to people selling out access for cash.Make sure to keep all contact to email and at this stage, court will be a good thing to give your man and his child some fair play.

[HammerDad]

clothing, laptop with computer programs, etc

Clothing is covered under child support. If he pays c/s, he has already made his contribution.

Computer/laptop - unless the childs school requires the child to have a laptop, her decision to buy one was simply as a gift to the child from her. He is under no obligation to pay.

Also, as mentioned, keep the emails especially those from the child. When you go to court, motion the court to include wording that the child not be involved in parenting matters and not be put in the middle. Request that no parent shall make disparaging comments about the other parent, or allow other individuals, in the childs presense. Request counselling for the child at the ex's expense due to her repeated involvement of the child in adult matters. Use the emails as evidence.

[Berner_Faith]

Is there any actual court orders in place?Well in my opinion you should be keeping every single email she sends or sends through the child .She is clearly alienating the child and is pretty brazen about it.Your man is only obliged to pay table amount and that's it.As for soccer and sports etc-that's all section 7.Both parents have to agree and pay 50/50 on those If he doesn't agree about the sports he doesn't have to pay.As for access and visitation ...the court doesn't take well to people selling out access for cash.Make sure to keep all contact to email and at this stage, court will be a good thing to give your man and his child some fair play.

Wrong... some sports may be covered under CS depending on the income of both parents, as well as the CS received... if both parents make $80k a year, then $100 for soccer would not be considered section 7... it all depends on the incomes of both parties, as well as the cost associated with the sport.

It is also not split 50/50 unless both parents income is equal. Section 7 expenses are split proportionate to income.

[Buttercup123]

They had an amending agreement drawn up during divorce which states he has 30 days to pay for extraordinary expenses. He paid his portion of the gym membership up front &' specifically asked her to have receipt made & both names which she didnt do. She claims the clothing (uniform)
is for sports - track & basketball - but we don't understand why he needs over $500 for these sports. She says he is a hard size to buy for - yet receipts show size large? We asked for copy of required items for the uniform, and she went crazy. We have loads of emails, receipts, etc. she makes him to be a deadbeat which he's not. She influences the child to hate his father - I've seen text messages to my daughter where he misses us & if hubby paid "his full cs" he would prob be allowed to see him again. Is there anything he can do? We can't afford a lawyer, is there someplace where dads can get help or advice when these things happen?

[HammerDad]

Wrong... some sports may be covered under CS depending on the income of both parents, as well as the CS received... if both parents make $80k a year, then $100 for soccer would not be considered section 7... it all depends on the incomes of both parties, as well as the cost associated with the sport.

Correct.

I get the idea that many people are just seeing the costs and what they are for and believe they are s7....but the wording in s7 provides for "extraordinary" expenses. So the costs associated with the activity must be "extraordinary" to the incomes of the parents and the amount of c/s received.

For me personally, I use a $100 threshold. If my share is over a $100, then I feel it is appropriate. I pay about $600 a month in c/s, so any amounts close to 1/5 of that, I feel are getting up there.

[HammerDad]

Don't pay for anything you don't receive a copy proper receipt for.

Say you are willing to cover your portion of s7 expenses, but need confirmation of the amount and her income so you can pay your proportional share.

As for the child, how old is the child? If they are young, they have no choice about whether or not they exercise their parenting time. If they are over 14, it becomes more difficult. If there is an order, the child is supposed to come until the order is amended. But at 14, the child will have their own interests and both parents should appreciate the maturing needs of the child and work with the child to spend time when they can.

But seeing the child is NOT subject to paying any amounts of money. Child support and parenting time are not attached. One cannot be denied because the other is not happening. If the child refuses to come because one parent has not helped pay for something and the parent who purchased the denegrades that parent, well, you motion the court and ask for counselling at the other parents expense as they are not acting in the best interests of the child.

Then, just do your best to be a parent. If there is a regular schedule, you go there to pick up the child and try to be a parent. Don't give into selfishness or spoiled kids/ex's that want the world without question.

Again, only pay for things you receive a proper copy of a receipt for. While you are willing to contribute, you need proof of expense. You also need a copy of her notice of assessment to determine what your proportional share is. You provide her with a copy of his as a sign of good faith and hope she will recipricate.

But reach out to the kid. Try to do other things with them. If the kid is young, they don't have a choice.

[Mess]

They had an amending agreement drawn up during divorce which states he has 30 days to pay for extraordinary expenses. He paid his portion of the gym membership up front &' specifically asked her to have receipt made & both names which she didnt do. She claims the clothing (uniform)
is for sports - track & basketball - but we don't understand why he needs over $500 for these sports. She says he is a hard size to buy for - yet receipts show size large? We asked for copy of required items for the uniform, and she went crazy. We have loads of emails, receipts, etc. she makes him to be a deadbeat which he's not. She influences the child to hate his father - I've seen text messages to my daughter where he misses us & if hubby paid "his full cs" he would prob be allowed to see him again. Is there anything he can do? We can't afford a lawyer, is there someplace where dads can get help or advice when these things happen?

I recommend you don't turn this into a "dad's" thing. If you start quoting from men's rights groups you will get nowhere in court.

You can't afford a lawyer, but you are going to end up paying the same amount if you keep overpaying and paying twice for section 7 expenses.

You seen text messages. Hearsay, not admissible. You take the cell phone to a notary, have messages transcribed, the notary swears them to be accurate. Do this or drop the issue.

You get receipts for expenses, or you don't pay. Can you not document payments that were made that she had repay from the last court date? Do not ever pay anything in cash, for goodness sakes.

Read a good book on family law, divorce etc. Michael Cochrane's book, Surviving your Divorce is excellent. It's hard to advise you what to do without you having basic background knowledge. Get a book like that and treat it as a night school textbook. Go over it chapter by chapter, section by section and heading by heading. Make notes. If something doesn't apply to you, make a note about why. Study it.

Your description indicates that you are being passive. You have a court order for access. If you don't get your child according to the order, the ex is in contempt. You document all communcation, you keep track of all missed visits, you show a pattern of behaviour and you get a motion order to have access enforced. If you can document the things she is saying to the child (factual proof, not something you heard) then can have this addressed in court.

If you don't put the effort in, then you are giving up. No one has a magic wand to make this better. If you don't enforce your access to the child, you will lose contact and as he gets older you lose the relationship.

How much is that worth to you? You will pay CS anyway. The cost of a lawyer is the cost of keeping your child in your life.

[OrleansLawyer]

I get the idea that many people are just seeing the costs and what they are for and believe they are s7....but the wording in s7 provides for "extraordinary" expenses. So the costs associated with the activity must be "extraordinary" to the incomes of the parents and the amount of c/s received.

A very good point.

The key word is extra-ordinary. The relevant legislation provides for sharing of extra-ordinary expenses related to extra-curricular activities, for example, not sharing of all extra-curricular activities.

[Buttercup123]

Child is 15. All they ever had for visitation was "reasonable access". I am a divorced mom of 2 as well - it wasn't easy with my ex but I kept it from my children. I can now say that he & I are friends, and he is wonderful to both me & the children. It's just so hard seeing my husband suffer like this
She also wants her portion of medical premiums paid, but hubby & I both pay into plans in which he is covered. Is he still required to pay for hers? Our combined plans will pay $5000 towards his braces, leaving $1000. Would we still have to pay on the balance too? She initially told us she doesn't want him on my plan, which I don't understand! For a laptop to be a necessity, does he need proof from school? She made purchases of cell phone & laptop without consultation. He has wanted counselling for a long time but she has such control, would court have to order? What if child tells judge he doesn't want it?

[Buttercup123]

A very good point.

The key word is extra-ordinary. The relevant legislation provides for sharing of extra-ordinary expenses related to extra-curricular activities, for example, not sharing of all extra-curricular activities.

I'm not sure I really understand this. I've never had these battles with my ex

[HammerDad]

She also wants her portion of medical premiums paid, but hubby & I both pay into plans in which he is covered.

I would respond that he maintains his own medical coverage for the benefit of the child which further mitigates any medical costs for the child. Thus he is fulfilling his obligation to cover medical preimuims. However, should she insist on sharing the costs of medical premiums, that she should be willing to cover her portion of the combined premiums, his and hers (yours are not likely to be included in the numbers).

Our combined plans will pay $5000 towards his braces, leaving $1000. Would we still have to pay on the balance too?

Yes, you would still have to pay your proportional share of the balance remaining after all insurance coverage is deducted. So if braces are $6k, insurance covers $5k, you pay your proportional share on the remaining $1k.

She initially told us she doesn't want him on my plan

She doesn't get a say in what you do in your house with your finances. Ignore her rants. And better yet, don't bother telling her about matters that don't pertain to her. If she gives you an invoice for something for you to submit to insurance, submit it to whoever you need to and then pay the remaining balance. No need to get her involved.

For a laptop to be a necessity, does he need proof from school?

If purchased for school, it is substantially more likely to be deemed a section 7 expense. But, I would request a copy of the schools requirement for the child to have the laptop. If it is to make the kids life easier, well, easy isn't a necessity....although, as a parent I could see the purchase as being in my kids best interests and pay half....not proportional, half....this isn't s7 so those rules wouldn't apply IMO.

She made purchases of cell phone & laptop without consultation.

Cell phones are gifts from her to him, and are not a necessity or s7. No requirement to pay IMO.

He has wanted counselling for a long time but she has such control, would court have to order? What if child tells judge he doesn't want it?

A court may order it based off of the evidence you can provide that shows the ex is interferring with the father and childs relationship by involving the child in adult matters, putting the child in the middle and otherwise alienating dad.

If the child tells the judge "no" a judge will listen to their reasoning and the evidence at hand and make a ruling. They can order it anyway, and failing to abide would be contempt. And the ex would be obligated to facilitate the counselling for face contempt.

[Buttercup123]

Thank you for all the advice & tips. We certainly don't mind getting the child what he needs - but no consultation & then demanding money right away, the threats, the lies...just too much& so stressful!