Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

need a little help

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    thanks mememe, i did go to the site but they don;t tell you the new formula , only they have to prepare it, and there are different rules for dividing the pension in 2012.
    tahnks

    Comment


    • #17
      but I don't know how they do the formula part as he was working 5 year before we got married so in teh 18 years of pension . Only 13 is matrimonial

      Comment


      • #18
        One evaluates the pension for the years of marriage and you are entitled to half of it. The question of course--is what is it worth. You can phone the pension people directly and get information. There seems to be confusion as to whether you need to get the evaluation done if you intend to pay from the pension or your personal. The government hasn't figured everything out yet . THey are only beginning to evaluate the pensions.

        Comment


        • #19
          went to see my lawyer today as there was a cancellation. The lawyer was straight forward, agreed with split custody, doing sep agreement and not to go to court if at all possible. She gave me numbers for child support and three different ss figures low, med ,and hi. Even the low ss was way beyond what I was thinking. When my husband had been talking he believed he wouldn't even pay as much as just the child support , for both. I can't see this being amacable now. When he finds out he will have a bird. the lawyer said be prepared for the I will go for sole custody, or I will spend every cent on lawyers and leave nothing for you, just let him vent and the figures for cs can't be argued and ss is in the ballpark. All he will see is no new lexus or bmw which he has been talking about for next year, I drive a 3 year old van ( not bmw or japanese). I am looking at houses right now, and can't believe the prices of townhomes.I image he will now say he doesn't want to buy the house and I should buy it or lets sell it? Ican sell it as I am not married to the home, my home is with the kids and being happy

          Comment


          • #20
            The matrimonial home will either be kept by one of you (buying out the other's share) OR sold and the cash value used as part of equalization.

            You will need his pension valued.

            Most of what you have expressed is fairly cut and dry. The spousal support is likely going to be a battle. Did you give up your career for him? Did you stay at home while the kids were small and your seniority suffered for it?

            Spousal support requires an "entitlement" check. You have to PROVE you are entitled to it, it's not automatic. The things mentioned above are part of that check. If you CANNOT meet it, you shouldn't receive spousal. The numbers the lawyer gave you are AFTER it's determined that you are entitled.

            On its own, a mere disparity of income that would generate an amount under the Advisory Guidelines formulas, does not automatically lead to entitlement. There must be a finding (or an agreement) on entitlement, on a compensatory or non-compensatory or contractual basis, before the formulas and the rest of the Guidelines are applied.
            That is a quote from the spousal support advisory guidelines. THAT's where the battle is. Just making less than he does is NOT enough. As a basic/general rule...WITH child support factored in:

            Spousal support is an amount that will leave the recipient spouse with between 40 and 46 percent of the spouses’ net incomes after child support has been taken out. (We refer to the spouses’ net income after child support has been taken out as Individual Net Disposable Income or INDI).
            Plug the after tax numbers in and use the CS paid/received....what kind of percentages are you looking at? He exists in a high tax bracket than you do, so his "net" is affected at a greater degree. It does skew the percentages.

            Here's the thing...do you want a long and protracted battle where you pay 10's of thousands of dollars to a lawyer? Or do you want to remain amicable?

            If the rough numbers put you over 40% of his NDI to start with, it MIGHT be better off to forgo that in favor of keeping things civil. If you DO pursue spousal, for God's sake put an end date on it. Open ended spousal support agreements SUCK for everyone, they lead to nothing but problems. (and it's a much easier sell to him if there is a clear cut ending date for it). At 13 years of marriage the standard duration would be between 6.5 and 13 years.

            Spousal support is a TAX DEDUCTION for him as long as it's paid monthly and is ratified via legal avenues. Again, that's a selling point. Yes you pay, but you CAN claim it on your taxes.

            Comment


            • #21
              as for the spousal, the lower had me at 45 on the ndi middle was 47 and hi I was not even looking at. I did not give up my career but did not look to hard to find a better job, had done a couple competitions in the govt and it was between me and another and then it ended and heard it was because the competition was for her, and she wasn't going to get it. I also don't speak french. I liked my job as it had flexable hours and would allow me to work around his hours and meetings etc, but all he will say is your could have went back to school, or gotten a babysitter etc

              Comment


              • #22
                You were willing to agree to a SS lower than SSAG numbers your lawyer told you, so why are you now going for SSAG numbers?

                Comment


                • #23
                  I don't know what I am going for just what the lawyer told me I was allowed for. If I take more , I know it will be spent on the kids mostly, better trip, a little more on bdays and xmas, doing more things with them like hockey games or winter and summer activities. That is my biggest fault I have learned, is I do everything around the kids and for them and don't do things for myself. I am hoping on my weeks without them I can change that. If I don't take the extra , it wll be spent on his clothes, new watch. Now yes there will be some spent on the kids, how much I do not know. I was going to probably ask for a little over the low which is still more than I thought. Maybe I am trying to justify it, but I know the kids will be the ones who really benefit from it. Nothing in stone yet just keeping my options open and seeing what everyone else thinks.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Well, my view is CS is for the kids, SS for you.

                    I don't agree with the justification that you want more SS to increase how much he spends on his kids.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I am not saying that, I said if I take ss I will spend more of that on the kids, if I don't take ss, he will spend it on crap for him and not really on the kids. I do appreciate your comments. And even if I don't agree it makes me think. Thank you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I understand where you're coming from, but you have to stop thinking about him spending his money on himself. What he spends his money on now shouldn't matter to you and it will only increase bitterness if you think of it this way.

                        Child support is his money toward the care of the children. What else he spends his money on is up to him.

                        Spousal support is a touchy subject. Unless you were a stay at home mom with no education and no retirement plan, etc., I really don't think it's fair. I know it's hard to turn away money that you are "entitled" to, but I urge you to be fair in determining S/S.

                        Table amounts are in my opinion over-inflated, lack many considerations, and are the absolute maxiumum that a person should have to pay.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Here's another point of view (from a SS receiver - well, eventually receiver, haven't seen a penny yet!!)
                          SSAG gives a range. Your lawyer will indicate where you should be on that range, i.e. given the past facts (who sacrificed etc) and also the future facts (pension - or lack of thereof). Ask your lawyer for the reasonable position, and start there. That indicates goodwill (i.e. not max) but also lets you have a little leeway for negotiations. If you start at the low end, there's nowhere to go. It's a tough decision, but project yourself to when you will be needing money in the future (for you, to help your adult children, old you etc).

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            thank Torontonian, my lawyer said something along those lines, she said I shoud put a bout 60% of ss into either rsp's or a fund. He will only pay cc for a certain amount of years and same with ss so when the kids are gone, you will be on your own. He will have a pension and always be comfortable financially you will have rsp's and a house but no pension. I want a friendly split, but also want to be fair. I will look at both sides as we start talking numbers. You are right in, it doesn't matter what he spends his money on and I will try to look at it like that, just hard

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by alisaden View Post
                              He will have a pension and always be comfortable financially
                              Not necessarily so. My ex's entitlement to my pension corresponds to a $1000/month reduction in my pension cheques - for the rest of my life. And her entitlement wasn't all that large in comparison to some.

                              Not saying this is your situation, but IF your entitlement was to 50% of his lifetime pension, you'd both be living equally well (or equally poorly) off of it.

                              Not surprisingly, I think that the pension division thing is a bit of a screwjob

                              Cheers!

                              Gary

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                we haven't gotten to the pension yet, he has been employed by his board for 18 or 19 years, the last 13 married and one year living together. So basically he will have another 12 or so years with the retirement factor. There is a new way to divide teachers pension in 2012. First they have to find out the value and you can't hire an actuary, you need them to do it. Then comes the decision to receive a pension when he does or just roll into a rsp I can't touch. When you read about the pension options an example is it I decide to take part of the pension when he retires if something happens to him. I get nothing. If say it 10 years he dies I get nothing. The estate would get money but me nothing or if he retired and took his pension for one year and dies. There goes my pension. I will have to see a financial planner when we get to that stage. Ps he missed the final weekend of hockey for both sons this weekend but its ok he had fun golfing. And if doesn't matter if they begged him to come he needed the break. In the words of Ringo Starr " peace and love, peace and love"

                                Comment

                                Our Divorce Forums
                                Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                                Working...
                                X