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New Dad here, trying to get 50/50 of my kids

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  • #16
    There is some equity, but not very much, which I why I think she wants top dollar. She knows about offsetting CS payments and I think it partially has something to do with why she wants full custody and 75/25 residency. Perhaps the new guy has convinced her of this, but she thinks she is going to cash in if I have to pay her for having primary residency. I'm not sure she's considered the fact that the costs really aren't that much different either way once you factor in all the other expenses.

    the house has been on the market since August and no offers yet. I've managed to talk her down $15K but it's still not enough in my opinion. The market isn't good right now.

    As yes, as you figure, being able to claim half the maintenance costs on the home all boils down to where or not it's been considered if she has moved out or not. If she has, then yes, should could charge me occupational rent to cover her half of the mortgage that she doesn't pay. The fact that she comes in without asking or notice and that her stuff is in the way of my putting my own things there, proves, to me, that I certainly don't have "control" over the house if that's what it takes.

    House issues aside, failing to pay CS from Nov 1st until the case conference due to my financial circumstances brought on by her leaving, will this affect my chances at 50/50? Do I have a chance at using undue hardship to explain this? Her standard of living is much higher than mine now that she is living free of charge at her new boyfriends whom I know for a fact is buying things for her and my kids (ie, he is supporting her).

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    • #17
      You should be able to get a temporary order based on the status quo since she moved out to live with the boyfriend that puts the 50/50 shared parenting on the record and also an order for her to cut the crap and cooperate with listing the house with a reputable realtor at fair market value so you can minimize the financial impact of her departure.

      [/QUOTE]

      Roughly how long does it take to get a temporary order for something like this and what sort of proof is needed to get it?

      the house is listed, it's just listed privately at a price above market value which is not moving it. It's been on the Market since August and we'e not got even 1 offer! I know it's not the house or the neighborhood either. Both are just fine and there's no reason would shouldn't have sold it by now had it been priced correctly. I DO have a few emails from realtors telling me what a more accurate listing price should be. It's about $10K less than the house is currently listed at.

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      • #18
        open a no fee bank account (presidents choice is the one I use but there are others) and put the offset CS in that account. That way when it does come time and if you get ordered to pay from Nov 1 then you already have the money in the bank to cover the back payment.

        If you want to claim undue hardship then you better make sure you get rid of all non-essentials like cable, internet etc. Hard to claim it when you are affording the little luxuries still. Even then you may not get a court to agree with undue hardship. They may say that once the house is sold you will have more money so they may hold off until that is done. Nothing is a slam dunk.

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        • #19
          "They may say that once the house is sold you will have more money so they may hold off until that is done. Nothing is a slam dunk. "

          This is correct. I will have more money once the house is sold. And this is why I'm only wanting to use an undue hardship claim while the house has not sold, because it's the reason I don't have the money to pay the offsetting CS right now. If I had the money to pay to put into a no interest bank account for possible later back payments, I'd just pay it to her now. It's not that I don't WANT to pay the CS right now, it's that I can't. I just don't have it. Every penny I have is going towards paying the mortgage and taxes, insurances, car maintenance and fuel, clothing for the kids because she took half, food for me and the kids, cleaning supplies, toiletries, taking the kids out for something cheap to do like public skating or play dates, Christmas presents for the kids so they'll have some to open when the time comes. Normal daily life expenses.

          I don't have cable. I have internet, but I'm a computer guy so it's actually a necessity for me for work, not a luxury. I have a cell phone, but no landline so it's not a luxury either. A person needs a phone number to get by in life. I think the only "luxury" I have is that I take myself out for dinner once every 2 weeks after I get paid and then I take the kids out twice every week I have them. I haven't run the numbers for November yet, but I'm pretty sure all my "luxury's" have actually come from money that I don't have (adding some debt) but I'm doing it anyway because I can't deprive myself or my kids of everything while she's living large and taking vacations south of the border.

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          • #20
            Something else to consider is the cost of the daycare. If ex is currently paying full cost of daycare right now, depending on whether full time or part time, daycare for two kids can be right up there with a mortgage payment.

            I believe that would be considered s7 and you would be responsible for your portion(in proportion to your incomes)

            Just something to consider in relation to you paying all the house bills right now and her none, and her paying all daycare.

            I think the sooner the house can be sold and equalization done, the better. Hopefully your ex can be convinced of that also, so that both of you can have a better grip on what your future finances will look like.

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            • #21
              I should mention that I do pay both children's RESP's right now. I've also given her half the cost of the snowsuits she bought for them previously this year (after an argument about it where she told me at one point I'd have to buy my own snowsuits for them and I told her that it made zero sense). So I'm helping with as much as I can when I can.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by PeacefulMoments View Post
                Something else to consider is the cost of the daycare. If ex is currently paying full cost of daycare right now, depending on whether full time or part time, daycare for two kids can be right up there with a mortgage payment.

                I believe that would be considered s7 and you would be responsible for your portion(in proportion to your incomes)

                Just something to consider in relation to you paying all the house bills right now and her none, and her paying all daycare.

                I think the sooner the house can be sold and equalization done, the better. Hopefully your ex can be convinced of that also, so that both of you can have a better grip on what your future finances will look like.
                exactly.. lots of this leverages on selling the house and she is being difficult.

                For daycare, she pays for D3. It's $800/mnth. As of Nov 1st, this is the only s7 expense that she has.

                The mortgage and property taxes on the home are $1950. On a single income, this is extremely difficult to meet and stay afloat.

                Sounds like I'll have a hard time with undue hardship for this period. Am I supposed to just put myself into debt and start paying her the offsetting CS and half of daycare now while she gets to sit pretty living free and sticking me with mortgage on a home she intends to take half the equity of?

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                • #23
                  Undue hardship is an extremely difficult process and one that would take considerable time. Once you have a separation agreement your ex may register with FRO then you can enter into an voluntary arrangement for payment of C/S arrears. You can probably find information on the VAPs online under Family Responsibility office or if you are from another province under the Maintenance Enforcement Program. Many payors prefer to go through FRO/MEP and the option is for either party to register.

                  Selling a home will take time. This seems to be something that your ex has plenty of as, according to you, she's "flush" and has no pressing financial issues. There is plenty of information on this forum of the steps you have to take to get a court Order for sale of the matrimonial home.

                  Courts, or maintenance enforcement agencies, do not care about your reasons for not paying CS. Their position is that you have a responsibility and you must honor it. Child support is the right of the child. You may have to get a second job temporarily to make your payments until such time as the home is sold. Your ex's b/f's financial situation is not relevant (I understand it must be extremely distressing to you).

                  I would suggest that you gather your ex's belongings and put them carefully into boxes in your garage or a secured storage facility. Make sure you alert her of this so that insurance applies. Nowadays people get their bills online so there is often little proof of a change of address. For this reason I believe you should get an order for exclusive possession of the matrimonial home. With that order you should also have a provision to sell the home. You would probably have to do your homework and get some appraisals (yes it costs money to do this).

                  Others will chime in about how to get the house on the market. Your ex may not want to use a realtor but she may have little choice in the matter.

                  Just remember that in the eyes of the court the children come first, your mortgage and other financial responsibilities come second.

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                  • #24
                    In general, I would say pay nothing unless you are ordered to do so.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Links17 View Post
                      In general, I would say pay nothing unless you are ordered to do so.

                      That's what I'm doing, at least until the house sells. I'm just second guessing if it can hurt my chances at all on getting the 50/50 order.

                      As for packing all her stuff into a box.. I'd rather just not rock the boat unless I absolutely have to. Other than the house, things are going how I want them with the kids right now. I don't want to send her over the edge so she does something irrational again. It's actually better for me trying to recoup half the housing costs if I can prove that even though she sleeps elsewhere, I do not have control or exclusive possession of the house and she technically still lives there since half of my residence is taken up by her stuff. ie-> Fat chance counter claiming occupation rent when I add months worth of mortgage payments into the NFP.

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                      • #26
                        if you are not willing to get exclusive possession of the house then at least make sure that your important papers, valuables or things that have sentimental value to you are stored somewhere else. Nothing like coming home and seeing a family heirloom has been taken, or papers you need for court missing.

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                        • #27
                          100% on this last point. Even after she moved out, my ex would routinely come into the mat. home when I was at work and just help herself to whatever she wanted. Nothing I could do until I had exclusive possession granted...other than remove things of mine that I didn't want to disappear.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CanadianMohawk View Post
                            That's what I'm doing, at least until the house sells. I'm just second guessing if it can hurt my chances at all on getting the 50/50 order.

                            As for packing all her stuff into a box.. I'd rather just not rock the boat unless I absolutely have to. Other than the house, things are going how I want them with the kids right now. I don't want to send her over the edge so she does something irrational again. It's actually better for me trying to recoup half the housing costs if I can prove that even though she sleeps elsewhere, I do not have control or exclusive possession of the house and she technically still lives there since half of my residence is taken up by her stuff. ie-> Fat chance counter claiming occupation rent when I add months worth of mortgage payments into the NFP.

                            You've only been separated for 1 month?

                            Then get a 2nd job and pay your bills. This is bound to be a long, drawn out process if you don't want to act for fear of your ex doing "something irrational."

                            Correct me if I'm wrong but the mortgage is in both of your names?

                            The two of you now have embarked on separate lives. You have 2 joint issues - children and home.

                            Does your ex work full-time? Is she capable of buying out your interest in the house? Perhaps she can, with bf/s assistance - or family member, qualify for a mortgage? If there is little equity then perhaps offer it to her and walk away and get your own place? Sticking around for less than 10k equity (your share) just doesn't make sense to me if you can't make the payments.

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                            • #29
                              6 months separated Arabian. Yes, she works full time and makes about 10K less than I do. She says she is going to try to get Spousal from me as well. I told her good luck with that.

                              Yes, her name is on the mortgage. Neither of us make enough to be able to buy the other out. There is 30K in equity on the home, which after mortgage penalties and realtor fees amounts to very little if anything. Believe me that I wouldn't be sticking around if I didn't have to. The mortgage payments come out of my bank account and as I said before, paying all of that plus not also supporting the kids half the time leaves me with nothing to be able to give to for offsetting CS. I can pay all my bills and buy us food, but having to buy new/replacement clothing and be able to do stuff with the kids when I have them is putting me into overdraft. I HAVE to sell the house to be able to afford giving her CS payments. Alternatively, i could start paying her CS but then have nothing left to buy food and clothing for the kids when they're with me. Considering she took half their clothes and some other things when she "moved out" means I have some catching up to do in order to provide for them.

                              Getting a second job just so i can pay her CS seems dumb because then next year, the CS amount will just go up.

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                              • #30
                                Perhaps talk to your mortgage lender and see if you can arrange a temporary haitus or reduction of payments (especially if you have made additional lumpsum payments in the past). Nothing to lose in trying!

                                This might be crazy talk, but with only 30K in equity - minus selling costs - split 50-50 - can you just walk away from it? Declare bankruptcy? Worth investigating what option would have a minimum hit on your credit rating.

                                Consider renting a room to a tenant? Great cashflow, but obviously need to choose the person carefully. But, it will increase your income for CS purposes, unless you know someone you would be willing to share you house with on a 'sharing expenses' basis (which would not be taxable).

                                But .. your CS payments would be minimal anyways, assuming offset payments, with her earning 10K less.
                                Last edited by dinkyface; 12-08-2015, 12:19 PM.

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