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  • #16
    I can agree lv for the most part with this fine piece of writing. I strongly oppose the part about court costs. There was no factoring in Legal Aid or what recourse a parent had if there was a mistake in the making of a final order.

    Case and point

    In my first case there was a cost judgment made against me for $45,000 in court cost ++. There were 2 reasons for the order for costs;

    1. Inhibit the losing litigant (me) from continuing with any further litigation
    2. Create a precedent for awarding more then the billable Legal Aid amount

    The court knew full well I was unable to pay such a large sum of money. The court had all my “real” financial information and therefore did so knowingly to inhibit my capacity to continue regardless of whether it was “in the best interests of the children.” The children and I were left to suffer the consequences; the children the abuse and the parent made powerless to help. I can only speak as the parent who had to suffer in silence. When the change in custody did occur, they changed the entire final order save for the order of costs against me. The children came into my sole care 18 months after the final order and with it; they inherited this burden placed on their now custodial parent. I am continually reminded by the court that if I want to change that order, I need to seek leave to appeal but, that time has now expired. There is another way to change the order, have the matter brought back before the justice that made the order in the first place. The court continues to deny my request in doing so.

    This case had my estranged wife using the services of Legal Aid. The final cost order was based on success. All the while paying my own legal expenses, let’s forget for a moment that I am a father and, I was successful. An order for court costs is made against the mom for $45,000. Where does my big win fall come from?

    I still am unable to afford to pay this order for court costs; it is still on my credit record and inhibits me from getting a charge card, loans, etc. Stuck without legal representation because, I can’t afford to drive myself further into debt to pay for a lawyer. In a way, I might get lucky and stave off bankruptcy until the next order for costs is made against me or luckier still, I could win and have court cost made against the legally aided mom and this will go towards and come from….the kids? I can barely wait.

    Either this family law process is about the best interest of the children or it isn’t. I would like to hear good argument from someone on how the court costs issue works in the best interest of the children.

    As far as affidavits go, I noticed between the ex wife 1 and ex wife 2 the exact same allegations. Right down to the exact same wording. There must be this “top ten list” of things to say about the other person in family law affidavit materials. I call this The Family Law Rules Missing Chapter, not available in schools and, only available when you start practicing family law.

    SillyMe

    Comment


    • #17
      SillyMe,

      I read a few cases where the courts awarded costs based upon the solicitor rates as listed in the Courts of Justice Act dependant on years of experience notwithstanding the fact the they were retained and quite willing to work at the legal aid rate.

      On the flipside; Just because a party is represented by legal aid, is not a valid reason to be unreasonable and to have costs awarded against them.

      lv

      Comment


      • #18
        Ha, your funny lv;

        Case law is a funny thing, it’s important for the administration of justice but behind each case are real people or, in my case real children also. Even this very young forum when searched, returns a hit on cost case law in my case. No surprise, it’s in a post from you. No surprise that the true story and the final outcome never got reported nor ever will it, save by myself. It was a reported case in canLII for all of about 5 minutes, and then disappeared. It was such an important piece of case law that the Law Times or whatever that premier law journal is called wrote an article about it. The order for costs was such a fine piece that the judge that made that order, wrote a paper describing how to write orders for costs. No one ever thought I just might have been telling the truth or, became blinded by their hidden agenda. Maybe they just forgot about the children, I don’t know. Personally, I don’t think court cost has any place in family law certainly not as a deterrent for litigating. I didn’t ask to go to court, I am forced there as the last vestige in protecting my children and my parental rights. Man, I have burnt in hell for years for my children, its bigger then me and, I do it again because there is no price on the heads of my children. I do it solely for the love of my children.

        Ha, love is what got me into all this trouble (I wonder at times if it isn’t overrated) and, I’ll be damned if love won’t see me through it.

        Sorry lv, I hope you don’t think I am poking at you. I just don’t understand the context of your post.

        SillyMe

        Comment


        • #19
          Sillyme,

          Interesting.

          Do you know who pulled your case at Canlaw? It may be still reported somewhere else. I believe I have a copy of the report you are mentioning on the issue of costs.

          lv

          Comment


          • #20
            I have a new saying; If divorce is hell then, I own a piece of the place (bought and paid for).

            I have been hanging around reading although, pretty much keeping myself and my stuff offline. It was suggested that I be very careful about posting to a public forum while going through my personal woes. I did receive a couple of emails asking that I let a few members know how things turned out.

            Interestingly enough I found a wonderful resource on Canlii here;

            http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc...nlii46697.html

            This order came up while doing a search on Parental Alienation. Personally, it should be shared with any vindictive mom that wants to sever a parent child relationship with the child’s father. It can be used as precedence where, a status quo was created by false allegations and kept by the continuous use of false allegations of sexual abuse against the father untoward his daughter.

            My personal opinion of the whole affair was; the court finding a new low. Don’t blame the mom for the issue’s, blame an innocent little girl. Stay tuned for the untold story……

            I wonder if the court cost order will be posted on Canlii? I bet you a dollar you won’t see it there. Speaking of a dollar, this is the amount the father had asked for. The other side asked for thousands of dollars…lol….the court ordered no costs…lol….not even the one dollar the father asked for his troubles.

            I don’t recall what I wrote previously and, I can’t bring myself to review it either. It’s just that it seems so long ago. I am currently working on a behind the scenes story. I don’t think this forum would be the best application for disseminating the story while, my aim is to close this post I felt I left unfinished.

            So besides this order, what does 4 major allegations (meaning the necessity and involvement of doctors, CAS, police, etc) of sexual abuse upon your own kin get you? Well how about another major allegation 2 weeks after the final order is issued. Lose of contact again, police interrogation again, etc. How about perpetual Case Conferences? What an emotional roller coaster it has all been. I’m sure we would all settle for some dignity.

            There are those in my counsel of conscious that attribute this case as a complete success for the family law industry. The father is bankrupt, his children have lost yet another house, he is in debt to the tune of thousands of dollars and, he is back in court yet again not weeks after the final Order was issued. The only thing left is his job which, looks like it will not survive another round. More Guy’s, more Hadleys and, more tragedies abound.

            It’s not fun fighting on an inferior team, that of being a Canadian father. The only thing I can do is hang my head in shame. Another Case Conference come and gone, my mention of the material change may as well have been said in Swahili. It was never mentioned again and, not even counsel for the other side put up any argument on the Material Change. It’s almost a sport….what do you do for a living? Oh, I pay to play family law. It is one of those hunting human games. You release the father and his family into the family law jungle, then you start shooting at him, not to kill but maim slowly, you use any method…lawyers, assessors, CAS, police, money and, unlimited resources. If you catch him, you get to slap him personally and then, throw him back and do it again. Kind of like catch and release.

            If there are questions, I will do my best to field those. I have written my heart out, I am still writing like my life and, the life of my family depends on it. As soon as I find a home for the full story, I will get back to this site with an address. I guess this wasn’t the end but the beginning of the end….

            Some of the story highlights I have been writing about:

            The allegations
            Legal Aid (I qualified….I didn’t qualify)
            The Expert witness that didn’t show and, I was barred from communicating with…
            The lies – If a person admits under oath, on the stand, they knowingly signed a false affidavit; does this criminal behavior matter in Family law, apparently not.
            A few things I have learned along the way.
            And many, many more…

            For now, I am just another Canadian father being totally denied justice here in the Nation’s capital. For those that are struggling to make sense of our Family law system….stop. For those tired, rest, stay strong and, never give up the fight for your children.

            God Bless everybody in this mess, keep your chin up….

            SillyMe

            Comment


            • #21
              Well, Silly Me, after reading this thread I just had to post a reply...
              First, I WAS having a great day and am still unsure why I decided to lurk onto here...now I am sad...and a little depressed. I really feel bad for what you have gone and continue to go through, and I applaude you for your courage and desire to help others through your experiences.
              You are obviously well read and intelligent, and I am surprised that this fact alone did not factor into some affidavits being called into question throughout your "ordeal". And I concur that self representation only makes sense in your case. I was totally flabbergasted by your story!
              All I can offer is a tip of the hat to you. Maybe you could sell your story to hollywood 'a la Kramer vs. Kramer" and recoupe some funds you lost so unnecessarily....
              Keep the Faith and best of luck to you!

              Comment

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