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  • as if family court wasn't bad enough ...

    Hi everyone,

    I'm posting on behalf of a friend. She has been dealing for the past 5 years with a vindictive ex who is trying to separate her from her kids. Up until last summer, she had primary physical custody (legal custody is still pending.) In the past, the ex has made allegations of physical abuse that were investigated by the police and CAS and found to be false. Last July, her ex again alleged that she had physically abused their son (13 yo and now on Dad's side) who confirmed that he had been "slapped" by his mother. On this alone, she was arrested, strip-searched, put in jail overnight and charged with two counts of assault. The charges have recently been dropped (stayed?) because the judge ruled the strip search illegal and that her civil rights had been violated.

    So in addition to family court hell, she has had to deal with separation/alienation from her kids for the past year, her criminal lawyer's bill of $45K+, and the horrible emotional trauma of being abused by the police. She is considering filing a lawsuit against the police and is looking for recommendations for a good civil lawyer, and any advice you can offer. She still has the family court matters to sort out (trial is in November.)

    Thanks!

  • #2
    OK, let's step back. She hit the 13 year old. The child reported this to the father, the father followed up on it. There is nothing vindictive in this behaviour.

    Whatever the actions of the police, they were not controlled by the father.

    You are painting a picture of a victim of the system, but this victim struck their child, the child chose to move in with the other parent, and charges were only stayed, according to you, on technicalities.

    She needs a good lawyer, this is factual. She wishes to press a lawsuit against the authorities for her treatment, this is outside the premise of this message board, we deal with divorce and family issues.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why are you assuming that she hit the child? She didn't. Not this time, nor the time before when the father lied and was found by CAS and the police to have lied. There was no evidence of it, no marks, no bruising, nothing. As I said, they went solely on the father's and the child's say-so. Had they checked their own records they would have found that the father has a history of making false allegations and coaching the child. And even if she did, in what universe is it OK to strip search someone and throw them in jail for slapping their child?

      A judge ruled that the police illegally strip searched her and violated her rights. If you don't think she's been victimised, what would you call it?

      Seriously, Mess. This is your advice?

      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      OK, let's step back. She hit the 13 year old. The child reported this to the father, the father followed up on it. There is nothing vindictive in this behaviour.

      Whatever the actions of the police, they were not controlled by the father.

      You are painting a picture of a victim of the system, but this victim struck their child, the child chose to move in with the other parent, and charges were only stayed, according to you, on technicalities.

      She needs a good lawyer, this is factual. She wishes to press a lawsuit against the authorities for her treatment, this is outside the premise of this message board, we deal with divorce and family issues.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by plky View Post
        that she had physically abused their son (13 yo and now on Dad's side) who confirmed that he had been "slapped" by his mother.
        Since this is your friend, aren't you assuming their denials?

        I'm not saying that the police shouldn't be held accountable. However you are portraying your friend as someone who has never, ever, done anything wrong and is a victim of their 13 year old child's accusations.

        Comment


        • #5
          Interesting that you chose not to include the word "alleged" at the beginning of the phrase when you quoted it.

          She is asking for recommendations for a civil lawyer. Clearly you can't help her with that. Can anyone else?

          Comment


          • #6
            Interesting that a 13 year old child reported being struck by their parent and you are pressing the issue that it is only "alleged". Were you there to witness it?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by plky View Post
              I'm posting on behalf of a friend. She has been dealing for the past 5 years with a vindictive ex who is trying to separate her from her kids. Up until last summer, she had primary physical custody (legal custody is still pending.)
              Custody until ordered by the court is joint and in the absence of a direct order regarding custody it is joint legal custody. Don't worry too much about the technical aspects of "custody" unless they are directly made by way of an order (on motion) or determined on consent and signed into a legal (and registered) document (agreement) or order resulting from a trial.

              Originally posted by plky View Post
              In the past, the ex has made allegations of physical abuse that were investigated by the police and CAS and found to be false.
              False allegations of child abuse are not uncommon and in fact, when made against anyone they are a form of psychological abuse. It is unfortunate that this person is continually being emotionally abused in this manner.

              Originally posted by plky View Post
              Last July, her ex again alleged that she had physically abused their son (13 yo and now on Dad's side) who confirmed that he had been "slapped" by his mother. On this alone, she was arrested, strip-searched, put in jail overnight and charged with two counts of assault. The charges have recently been dropped (stayed?) because the judge ruled the strip search illegal and that her civil rights had been violated.
              Is there a resulting decision from a full trial in the matter that resulted in the determination?

              The violations of "civil injustices" on the count of miss conduct and the police would have to be called out in detail in a resulting decision.

              What the parent should do is register (provide to the police and crown) copies of the resulting decision for their records as soon as she has them. They should book a meeting with the appropriate senior official and serve, in person, the court's decision regarding the whole ordeal. As well, it should be provided directly to the Children's Aid Society as well and a request to file it and for it to be reviewed on every contact regarding the child in question should be made.

              Originally posted by plky View Post
              So in addition to family court hell, she has had to deal with separation/alienation from her kids for the past year, her criminal lawyer's bill of $45K+, and the horrible emotional trauma of being abused by the police. She is considering filing a lawsuit against the police and is looking for recommendations for a good civil lawyer, and any advice you can offer. She still has the family court matters to sort out (trial is in November.)
              With regards to a civil action against the police the matter of "costs" for defending herself it is a hard battle.

              Andrew Lawrence, attempted to bring these matters to light and even took his "crusade" to the SCC recently in March of 2012. If you research this case law (search "Andrew Lawrence" on CanLII.org) you will see the challenges with bringing forward a civil suit against the police and others who work in the "mush" market.

              A recent decision which I will dig up shortly involves another attempt by a father who attempted to bring a civil suit against the police. It is a very structured resulting decision and a great template as to what the court expects by way of "evidence" to bring a matter like this forward.

              It will cost more than $45,000 (what was spent on the criminal defence) to bring forward a civil suit. Andrew Lawrence, if you add up the costs awards against him, had to pay out a significant amount of costs ($60,000++) for his failed attempts.

              (Lawrence v. Peel Regional Police Force - search for this on CanLII.)

              Civil lawsuits against the police will be VIGOROUSLY defended against. They are not easy, cheap and the results may not be what one would expect or think they deserve.

              A good criminal lawyer would be your best person to assist in bringing forward the lawsuit. Why not the defence lawyer who represented your friend in the matter? What is that lawyer's opinion? If they are unwilling to do it... Ask yourself why? They are the best lawyer to know what constitutes negligence in police services one would think....

              PS: "resourceful" - should this story be "true" it is a prime example why your constant rhetoric that this only happens to men is miss guided and miss placed. Both sexes are equally contributing to false allegations constantly before the courts to try and gain leverage.

              Hope this helps,
              Tayken

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by plky View Post
                She is asking for recommendations for a civil lawyer. Clearly you can't help her with that. Can anyone else?
                Oh no!! Another CM!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mess View Post
                  Interesting that a 13 year old child reported being struck by their parent and you are pressing the issue that it is only "alleged". Were you there to witness it?
                  What was the decision posted after 45,000 was spent on the criminal defence is my question? What was the resulting order? I have been scanning CanLII.org and nothing new has come up.

                  Did it go to trial? Did the crown drop the charges? Summary conviction?

                  Lots of questions to be answered. But, ultimately a civil lawyer in my opinion would not be the one to take this forward on a lawsuit. A criminal defence lawyer would be the best and know what and how the police failed to do their job correctly if there was negligence or a violation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cbarker78 View Post
                    Oh no!! Another CM!!
                    Tweet tweet? Tweedle dee?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by cbarker78 View Post
                      Oh no!! Another CM!!
                      What is CM?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by atlanticcanadian View Post
                        What is CM?
                        Canary Mom - a former(?) member who liked to say loudly and often that us lowly members were not lawyers therefore were not qualified to "assist in her matters"... she was also going to write a book about the grave injustice spread throughout the Courts.....

                        Just like "Resourceful" they were rather entertaining to read....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cbarker78 View Post
                          Canary Mom - a former(?) member who liked to say loudly and often that us lowly members were not lawyers therefore were not qualified to "assist in her matters"... she was also going to write a book about the grave injustice spread throughout the Courts.....Oh I remember now. She needed to move on instead of living in the past.

                          Just like "Resourceful" they were rather entertaining to read....
                          They were sad because you could tell she had mental health issues. I think there are more Leshkun cases out there than enough.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Tayken. I think her criminal lawyer is willing to still work with her, but he's advising her to wait until the 30-day appeal period expires before ordering transcripts. He says that sometimes if the crown believes you are going to circulate the decision to use it as precedent it will encourage them to appeal. In your experience, is this the case? I will ask her for more details about the decision and when it might be posted on CanLii. In the meantime, I'll pass on those references. Much appreciated.

                            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                            Custody until ordered by the court is joint and in the absence of a direct order regarding custody it is joint legal custody. Don't worry too much about the technical aspects of "custody" unless they are directly made by way of an order (on motion) or determined on consent and signed into a legal (and registered) document (agreement) or order resulting from a trial.



                            False allegations of child abuse are not uncommon and in fact, when made against anyone they are a form of psychological abuse. It is unfortunate that this person is continually being emotionally abused in this manner.



                            Is there a resulting decision from a full trial in the matter that resulted in the determination?

                            The violations of "civil injustices" on the count of miss conduct and the police would have to be called out in detail in a resulting decision.

                            What the parent should do is register (provide to the police and crown) copies of the resulting decision for their records as soon as she has them. They should book a meeting with the appropriate senior official and serve, in person, the court's decision regarding the whole ordeal. As well, it should be provided directly to the Children's Aid Society as well and a request to file it and for it to be reviewed on every contact regarding the child in question should be made.



                            With regards to a civil action against the police the matter of "costs" for defending herself it is a hard battle.

                            Andrew Lawrence, attempted to bring these matters to light and even took his "crusade" to the SCC recently in March of 2012. If you research this case law (search "Andrew Lawrence" on CanLII.org) you will see the challenges with bringing forward a civil suit against the police and others who work in the "mush" market.

                            A recent decision which I will dig up shortly involves another attempt by a father who attempted to bring a civil suit against the police. It is a very structured resulting decision and a great template as to what the court expects by way of "evidence" to bring a matter like this forward.

                            It will cost more than $45,000 (what was spent on the criminal defence) to bring forward a civil suit. Andrew Lawrence, if you add up the costs awards against him, had to pay out a significant amount of costs ($60,000++) for his failed attempts.

                            (Lawrence v. Peel Regional Police Force - search for this on CanLII.)

                            Civil lawsuits against the police will be VIGOROUSLY defended against. They are not easy, cheap and the results may not be what one would expect or think they deserve.

                            A good criminal lawyer would be your best person to assist in bringing forward the lawsuit. Why not the defence lawyer who represented your friend in the matter? What is that lawyer's opinion? If they are unwilling to do it... Ask yourself why? They are the best lawyer to know what constitutes negligence in police services one would think....

                            PS: "resourceful" - should this story be "true" it is a prime example why your constant rhetoric that this only happens to men is miss guided and miss placed. Both sexes are equally contributing to false allegations constantly before the courts to try and gain leverage.

                            Hope this helps,
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Mess made it clear he was not willing/able to offer any advice that wasn't to do with family law. I was simply responding to that.

                              Originally posted by cbarker78 View Post
                              Oh no!! Another CM!!

                              Comment

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