Hi Newb with some questions.

[auroradiem]

I had a consultation with a lawyer today who basically said this will be expensive to fight. That based on the fact that she is receiving welfare she will not be required to pay child support especially retroactively. The false claims she made were that she only worked part time and handed her pay cheques over to me. She was receiving EI so there is documented proof of income. We have always had separate bank accounts and she spent her pay cheques on her travell
ing, clothing and gambling. At one point she had to have herself voluntarily barred from the casino.

[Mess]

I would still suggest the same. Make an offer as I described. Let her waste her lawyer's time and the legal aid certificate by sending you offers and demands that you will just pleasantly turn down.

If they decide to file an application, then it is time to worry about a lawyer and how much it will cost.

Sending an offer that requires she pay child support according to an imputed income will be a strong opening position and it gives you a place to compromise from.

If you start by offering $250 support, she will come back and demand $500. If you offer $0 and require child support, you can compromise and it will be $250.

If she is on welfare, the government will want her to seek spousal. I get that. Just make sure she is actually entitled, and that the amount is fair.

[arabian]

I'd read and re-read Mess's post.

Important thing is that, like Mess said, you do not - UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE - agree that she is entitled to SS.

You should stop sending text/email messages to her. You made a big mistake by offering her money. Don't do it again. At the very least, iyou would be better to post your questions on here and get advice before you communicate anything to her.

[arabian]

If she is on welfare and receives money from you, would her monthly welfare cheque not be lowered to reflect the amount you send her anyway?

I do, however, like Mess's suggestion of you burning up her legal aid certificate hours. Very creative.

[Mess]

Yes it goes to welfare essentially, and that sucks, but she is put into a position where she has to seek it and the courts have to grant it.

I think the best thing is to force to lawyer to put together a reasonable, fact-based offer that would stand up in court. Don't just offer because you think you should. Let the lawyer do the grunt work, and then you can get it checked at another consultation, and/or we can check it with the online calculator.

[auroradiem]

Does she essentially have carte blanche with Legal Aid?
Will she be able to drag this out in court for as long as it takes to get what she wants?
The letter I received stated they will start proceedings in Superior Court in 30 days from receipt of the letter if We do not come to an agreement.

[Mess]

She does not have carte blanche. The legal aid certificate is for a limited amount and if things drag on it will run out.

Starting proceedings means that they file the application and serve you. You then file your answer, and then they reply. There will a case conference scheduled, usually more than a month after that, depending on how busy the court is.

At the case conference a judge will give you an opinion of what a court decision would be. The judge is looking at the evidence only briefly and there is no opportunity for serious cross-examination, so the opinion may or may not be accurate. It is good to have though.

You will have an opportunity to discuss a settlement then, and you (or the ex) may request mediation if you want. In Ontario, the court will provide a mediator if you request this at the case conference, you don't have to pay.

You can engage in mediation, or not. Then there are settlement conference and trial management conference, and any trial would not be for a year, usually. It is not a quick process.

So don't be bulldozed by the statement that they will begin proceedings. The lawyer is being factual, but also trying to intimidate you.

If this were me, I would hire a lawyer just before, or even after the case conference, if at all. Although the forms can seem confusing at first, up to that point it is not that difficult, and you would be paying a lawyer for a lot routine back and forth that will eat up money and get little in the way of results.

Letting file an application, to me, doesn't hurt you, it gives a clear view of what their actual case is. You have plenty of time to settle.

[arabian]

She would have gotten a Legal Aid "certificate" which stipulates the amount of hours she is entitled to receive. So no, she certainly doesn't have a blank cheque by any means.

This is why I said I liked Mess's idea of basically racking up her Legal Aid hours.

[Mess]

Arabian is right, and this is also partly why they are saying they will proceed with the courts in 30 days. The legal aid lawyer can't waste too much time with back and forth, although they do have to be able to show they tried to reach a reasonable settlement before going to court.

[auroradiem]

Good to know! Thank you very much! I looked at the amounts for income for legal aid and I will not meet the criteria.
I just got a call from her asking me if she can live in the trailer or in the other house. The house where she lives is being sold and she must move. I have no idea what she is trying to do.
She already asked me to store some of the furniture she took from the house when she moved, and then posted it for sale on kijiji. This is crazymaking.

[arabian]

My lawyer did something along the same line. My lawyer served ex with quite the shopping list in our first application. I recall being very pumped and happy with the demands we put forward. My ex was bamboozled by the whole thing and proceeded immediately to make many mistakes which would later back-fire on him.

At this point it's strategy and positioning and intimidation. In 25 days you can request another 30 days to find a lawyer. Then after that time you can request another 30 days to get documents organized. Then you can switch lawyers and so on. Soon the Legal Aid hours will be gone and your ex might have come down off of her cloud and is by that time ready to do some serious negotiations.

Running up the bill is easy-peasy.

[arabian]

Stop doing favors for her. Anything you help her with helps to pay her lawyer. Keep the money for your war chest and dig in.

[involveddad75]

I've been reading all this, and I agree with a lot of what is being suggested.
I self represented against a lawyer and won as well.

If I were you I would be going down to the court house this next week and filing your own application, before your ex does. This puts you in the drivers seat and sends a message to the court that your a father that is acting for the sake of the children, and not simply responding.
I would not let her live in any of your properties. She needs to move on and the best way to do this is by finding a place of her own.
By filing first (if your in separate towns) you establish the children's jurisdiction and this is a huge card to have. In my case my ex moved 45 minutes away, when she started with holding our children I filed the next day in my town. This set the jurisdiction of the children and the case. I wasn't trying to get the children back to my town they were already here. I was simply trying to get them to stay. My ex tried to move the courts but they refused.

So in summary:
1. form 8 application
2. form 35.1 affidavit for custody and access

If you want to ask for child support then form 13 financial statement for support claims.

That's what I would be doing.

[Mess]

Excellent comments from involveddad75.

[involveddad75]

I've been away working on getting ready for a new arrival. And getting other projects.