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  • Giving birth to the children is probably the exact type of thing we have to be compensating women for because they have no choice in the matter and it has definitely long term financial impact because practically speak for about 1 year they are out of the work forice.

    Spousal support currently RECOGNIZES in the case of sole custody the revenue lost to the custodial parent by becoming the one responsible for the children. When you pay spousal support you are in fact also compensating the mother for earnings lost because she has sole custody and has to continue to make life long sacrifices for the children....

    Comment


    • Originally posted by soonfree!! View Post
      The payor definitely will have benefited from the marriage and having a stay at home spouse. Just as they would have benefited from an employed spouse. In both cases, both parties benefited. It is you who is ignoring the fact that there are many ways the payee has already benefited from the relationship.
      That's my point exactly: the payee benefited during the marriage, but by all acounts your argument says they should stop once the marriage dissolves.

      However the payor benefited during the marriage and will continue to benefit FROM those benefits after the marriage dissolves.

      Comment


      • one thing I would like to put out there is this.

        People keep mentioning about how the stay at home person helped the other partner in their career. Okay I get that but not everyone has a career. Not everyone is a business person or a professional. How about the factory worker that has the same job when then married until the divorce or making close to the same money?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
          one thing I would like to put out there is this.

          People keep mentioning about how the stay at home person helped the other partner in their career. Okay I get that but not everyone has a career. Not everyone is a business person or a professional. How about the factory worker that has the same job when then married until the divorce or making close to the same money?

          2 different things

          One is "unjust enrichment" where a spouse helps the other in their business but is not compensated for it.

          The second is the fact that the SAHP is soaking up all (vast majority) the domestic responsibilities so the work drone can just focus on earning and consequently developping their job experience etc... in this case the SAHP gets screwed because 50% of nothing is nothing (this is the "upside" of the way SS works in favour of payors).

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Links17 View Post
            Giving birth to the children is probably the exact type of thing we have to be compensating women for because they have no choice in the matter and it has definitely long term financial impact because practically speak for about 1 year they are out of the work forice.

            Spousal support currently RECOGNIZES in the case of sole custody the revenue lost to the custodial parent by becoming the one responsible for the children. When you pay spousal support you are in fact also compensating the mother for earnings lost because she has sole custody and has to continue to make life long sacrifices for the children....
            Pathetic….a mother gets the first 16 weeks and the following weeks can be shared many do! Many women will not let the father take the time either.

            Very poor argument on this; yep we hold it over the working parents so they can’t get even share access to his kids and use this to blame the working parent for loss in advancement….cause you where force to stay home, right!


            No one is stopping stay at home parents from educating themselves while at home or stopping them from applying on positions to move ahead in the work place.

            My ex-sister in law put herself through a degree and law school while having her children…they have 4 in total and did it with no daycare, minimal help from family!

            Many educational institutions offer on line programs. In today's world there is no reason that a stay at home parent cannot return to work once all kidlets are in school full time and be educated.

            Oh and hold onto that sole custody because we may ask you to work.

            I'm so tired of adults not taking responsibility of them selves and putting the blame on the other spouse. GROW UP!

            So what if the other person makes more.....they are responsible for CS for the kids....and yes this is a benefit to the recipients...Don't even go there with this one! I know it is for the child....we have heard both sides on this one.

            A full grown adult can and should take care of themselves.

            I worked hard to educate myself and did online schooling to advance myself in my career; took care of my kids and home. My ex benefited during our marriage...he sat on his ass and did nothing to improve his skills. He gained during the marriage…marriage ended benefit ends for him but not my kids.

            I'm tired of hearing how it is so hard to be a stay at home parent! Parenting is hard! Get over it!

            For those that stayed home you had a choice and made it. At any point in time you could have returned to work!

            If it was so easy to work, we would see less people claiming sole custody and using the excuse of the kids are too young as a reason to stay home and not work!

            The working parent use to see the kids in most cases every night but get the shaft in most cases of EOW….you want to talk about fairness.

            I'm not saying that SS does not have a place but there has to be a better way to do this.

            Comment


            • On this comment! One is "unjust enrichment" where a spouse helps the other in their business but is not compensated for it.


              Yes, they do! Business is an asset and is split 50/50...if they choose to work for free that is a choice they made.

              I'm sure this kept the cost down and in some cases resulted in an increase of profits...meaning more income for the family.

              Spouse, also had skills to help out and skills acquired....meaning they are employable and can put this on a resume.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by good_mom View Post
                No one is stopping stay at home parents from educating themselves while at home or stopping them from applying on positions to move ahead in the work place.
                In some marriages the stay-at-home parent doesn't have the other parent's blessing to upgrade their education or get a job. It can often be very difficult to pursue education upgrading. Everyone's situation is different.

                Many people entered a marriage with the clear understanding and agreement that they would not be required to work outside of the home. I am sure when the marriage fails that they regret their decision, however, that doesn't change the reality of their current situation.

                An agreement was made at the beginning of the marriage contract. That is essentially what the courts examine, along with other facts, in determining eligibility for SS.

                Comment


                • I understand that Arabian...and agree not all cases are the same.

                  Many posts on here are more about blaming the ex and yea some ex's are jerks.

                  Yet, many need to grow up and be responsible adults too!

                  I left home at 17 put myself through last 2 years of high school with no social assistance or any parental assistance. Did the same for collage....not big on people who cry poor me and it's your entire fault!

                  Tired of people not taking ownership...guess I will have a hard time dealing with the generations to come...we seem to be giving them this as an example on how to behave.

                  Comment


                  • In my case, had own business started years before marriage.

                    Three kids, teens at time of divorce, very involved Dad.

                    Ex cried when tried to return to work after birth of first child.

                    Give her company job from home.

                    After third child, her skills were inadequate for growing job.

                    She stopped working. My company very successful.

                    Divorce (my fault). Shit hits the fan.

                    Her demands and family law was half my income (high 6 figures) & 1/2 worth
                    of MY company (Payable over 10 years) This equaled 100% of my income).

                    As it stood, I would as a self-made man:
                    Work full-time
                    Kids 50-50
                    Have no money - maybe $30k/yr for decade

                    No house for kids (even with shared custody)
                    Pay her $750k/yr

                    She would:
                    Not have to work
                    Receive $750K/yr for 10 - then $350K/yr for another 10 years
                    Kids 50-50
                    Received $650K paid home

                    Due to circunstances outside family law, it didn't go down that way, but her greed and the fucked up laws that allowed her to even threaten this destroyed my standing with business partners and I lost (and my kids lost) most of my lifetime assets and value.

                    Am I bitter, hell yes!
                    Do I care if she lives or dies? Dead, I would save 1/2 going forward.
                    Would I marry again - HA!

                    Was I willing to let her have the house and $100K for life without working? Yes I was.

                    Did she contribute to my company. Only as paid labour.
                    Did she do the heavy lifting with the kids alone? No, I changed diapers too,
                    and once they were school age I was as hands on as she was, considering I also built a company, bought in the income and paid for the cleaning service.

                    And even if she had decent paying job, the delta between our incomes would still have let her claim what she did.

                    That woman played a big part with her divorce in damaging my health, ruining my job, and destroying my finances because fair compensation wasn't enough.

                    I managed to pull enough out of the fire to retire well, but came this close to living in my mother's basement. That divorce was like losing the lottery. She still managed to soak me for $3 million and cost me untold millions more.

                    All because some adult woman could not take care of her own needs, even on $100k a year and a paid house.

                    Comment


                    • I am unclear as to how your ex's threats affected your standing with business partners and caused you to lose your lifetime savings.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by good_mom View Post
                        Pathetic….a mother gets the first 16 weeks and the following weeks can be shared many do! Many women will not let the father take the time either.

                        Very poor argument on this; yep we hold it over the working parents so they can’t get even share access to his kids and use this to blame the working parent for loss in advancement….cause you where force to stay home, right!


                        No one is stopping stay at home parents from educating themselves while at home or stopping them from applying on positions to move ahead in the work place.

                        My ex-sister in law put herself through a degree and law school while having her children…they have 4 in total and did it with no daycare, minimal help from family!

                        Many educational institutions offer on line programs. In today's world there is no reason that a stay at home parent cannot return to work once all kidlets are in school full time and be educated.

                        Oh and hold onto that sole custody because we may ask you to work.

                        I'm so tired of adults not taking responsibility of them selves and putting the blame on the other spouse. GROW UP!

                        So what if the other person makes more.....they are responsible for CS for the kids....and yes this is a benefit to the recipients...Don't even go there with this one! I know it is for the child....we have heard both sides on this one.

                        A full grown adult can and should take care of themselves.

                        I worked hard to educate myself and did online schooling to advance myself in my career; took care of my kids and home. My ex benefited during our marriage...he sat on his ass and did nothing to improve his skills. He gained during the marriage…marriage ended benefit ends for him but not my kids.

                        I'm tired of hearing how it is so hard to be a stay at home parent! Parenting is hard! Get over it!

                        For those that stayed home you had a choice and made it. At any point in time you could have returned to work!

                        If it was so easy to work, we would see less people claiming sole custody and using the excuse of the kids are too young as a reason to stay home and not work!

                        The working parent use to see the kids in most cases every night but get the shaft in most cases of EOW….you want to talk about fairness.

                        I'm not saying that SS does not have a place but there has to be a better way to do this.
                        good mom - thank you for your two cents here, I was beginning to feel a little ganged up on, lol.

                        Comment


                        • Yeah, ex couldn't understand either how three years of facing absolute ruin could possibly:
                          • Distract me from work
                          • Cause high blood pressure that led to constant fainting spells
                          • Afraid that living in my Mom's basement wouldn't allow for the three kids 50% (which would have resulted in $75K per kid per year in additional CS on top of the other dollars).
                          • Dealing with driving one kid to and from school daily (loss 3 hours a day)
                          • All medical and dental appointments on my weeks (she would re-schedule for her work-free weeks)
                          • And everything else that comes with going from really well off to poverty, while I continue to work to give her everything?

                          And by the way, in this whole story of my possible ruin by another person, who I was willing to kept in her lifestyle that I gave her, this was your only comment? Really?

                          When I pointed all this out to the ex, her answer was "I want my entitlement, I don't care about your problems".

                          Nice.

                          Comment


                          • You didn't answer my question.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by piggybanktoex View Post
                              Yeah, ex couldn't understand either how three years of facing absolute ruin could possibly:
                              • Distract me from work
                              • Cause high blood pressure that led to constant fainting spells
                              • Afraid that living in my Mom's basement wouldn't allow for the three kids 50% (which would have resulted in $75K per kid per year in additional CS on top of the other dollars).
                              • Dealing with driving one kid to and from school daily (loss 3 hours a day)
                              • All medical and dental appointments on my weeks (she would re-schedule for her work-free weeks)
                              • And everything else that comes with going from really well off to poverty, while I continue to work to give her everything?

                              And by the way, in this whole story of my possible ruin by another person, who I was willing to kept in her lifestyle that I gave her, this was your only comment? Really?

                              When I pointed all this out to the ex, her answer was "I want my entitlement, I don't care about your problems".

                              Nice.
                              So why wasn't the other person held accountable to the expectations of independence throughout the marriage?

                              Why wasn't there an expectation that they improve skills, obtain work, whatever the case may be? It seems as though these expectations for the past aren't voiced until the marriage is over, and that's quite simply too late.

                              Comment


                              • His statements contradict. He retired well yet, at the same time, lost his shirt.

                                I lost my shirt and I can assure you I cannot retire well.

                                He is intentionally vague. I notice he states "my POSSIBLE ruin."

                                Comment

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