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  • What is your opinion??

    So, the story goes… they meet, fall in love and move in together. Everything is great for a few years but then one loses their job. In an effort to make up for the loss in their share of expenses, the jobless one becomes the housecleaner, dishwasher, clothes washer, and cook. The jobless one makes sure the other one has what they need as they headed out to their job every day. The job that is now, supporting both of them. Everything is fine at first, but as time goes on things begin to get stale. The jobless one isn’t as committed to household chores anymore. The working one isn’t home as much. Eventually it comes to light that the time away from home was due to an affair. The jobless one is asked to leave the home and does. Soon after, a lawyer is called and even though they were never married, the jobless one sues for Spousal Support and gets it. Do you think the jobless one deserves it, even if they were never married?<O</O
    Should just living together, and having sex, mean that one NEEDS to support the other even if the relationship is over? Where would the jobless one be if the working one had not been around to support them when they lost their job? Didn’t the working one already give enough? Should the jobless one be given an opportunity to sue for a piece of the value of the home too, even if they are not on the title to the property?<O</O

  • #2
    It really depends on the situation - and we are only getting one side of the story here. Do you have children? How long were you living together? How old is your ex? What kind of work skills does she have etc.

    I'm sure that others here will tell you what you want to hear, but I won't.

    In my opinion, you should be giving her some temporary SS until she can get back on her feet. The affair and who did what to who is of no importance really. You both have to deal with the consequences of your break-up.

    Since you were never married, I don't believe that your ex can make claims on your home - though I'm not a lawyer.

    Comment


    • #3
      In our country, working in the home as your "jobless" person did, is considered "traditional" work. If you have someone come to your house and perform these responsibilities on a daily basis you would pay for it. If you did not pay a wage for the work at the time it was done you would be contacted by your Provincial employment ministry and collection procedures would ensue. The same would apply if you hired a housekeeper and offered room and board as part of the remuneration (wages). If you didn't pay, but did provide room and board, you would still be on the hook for the wage portion of the employment.

      With this in mind, some might posit that you are in a good position owing money under Family Law because you have the option of offering a cash settlement and avoiding court.

      If you still don't understand what I am saying then look at how farmer's wives are compensation for years of work on the family farm after they divorce.

      Married or not, someone performed work for you and requires payment.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by arabian View Post
        In our country, working in the home as your "jobless" person did, is considered "traditional" work. If you have someone come to your house and perform these responsibilities on a daily basis you would pay for it. If you did not pay a wage for the work at the time it was done you would be contacted by your Provincial employment ministry and collection procedures would ensue. The same would apply if you hired a housekeeper and offered room and board as part of the remuneration (wages). If you didn't pay, but did provide room and board, you would still be on the hook for the wage portion of the employment.

        With this in mind, some might posit that you are in a good position owing money under Family Law because you have the option of offering a cash settlement and avoiding court.

        If you still don't understand what I am saying then look at how farmer's wives are compensation for years of work on the family farm after they divorce.

        Married or not, someone performed work for you and requires payment.

        So, how would a person that took care of household work compensate person that worked outside of the home for the work that person did for them? Because if that person did not work outside of the home, they would not have a home, or food, or clothes. Let's be honest, most of us work and do house chores. If there are no kids involved, and on top of housework, that person took care of the kids (main reason for staying home), I do not see why anyone should be entitled to SS, maybe for couple of months until the ''jobless'' person finds work.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think by agreeing to her staying home, in a traditional role, you hooped yourself. Of course it will depend upon how long she worked outside of the home, how long since she worked outside of the home and how long you were together, etc.

          I understand what you are saying, however, the work performed by the stay-at-home person is considered to be contributing to the family and supportive of the person who works outside of the home.

          I am confused as to your statement of child care responsibilities. Did your XCL look after children as well or were her responsibilities limited to housework?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Toutou View Post
            So, how would a person that took care of household work compensate person that worked outside of the home for the work that person did for them? Because if that person did not work outside of the home, they would not have a home, or food, or clothes. Let's be honest, most of us work and do house chores. If there are no kids involved, and on top of housework, that person took care of the kids (main reason for staying home), I do not see why anyone should be entitled to SS, maybe for couple of months until the ''jobless'' person finds work.
            Sounds like the one with a job was committed to the arrangement until they found a better partner through an affair.

            This sounds like regret for allowing someone to live in "your home" "rent free" and "clean up" as a contribution to household expenses rather than work.

            A "traditional" arrangement suited everyone until that "traditional" arrangement required "traditional" spousal support and asset division. Perhaps a cohabitation agreement could have solved this mess of regret?

            Comment


            • #7
              Something else to ponder:

              Who paid the bills? Were there any joint bank accounts, loans or credit cards?
              Was person doing housekeeping responsibilities given personal spending money?
              Did person doing housekeeping ever look for work after losing job or was it mutually agreed that one would stay at home and work in traditional role?

              Comment


              • #8
                I have a feeling this story would look very different if the "the jobless one" were writing it. Clearly there was a more than "living together and having sex" in this relationship, no matter how you might paint it in hindsight. You weren't just friends with benefits, you were a social and economic partnership unit, and that has to be taken into consideration when resources are divvyed up at the end of the relationship.

                Entitlement for SS has to be proven, it is not automatic - but if "the jobless one" had been at home for an extended period; and if s/he had been contributing to the economic success of the employed one by doing the unpaid work at home, including child-rearing; and if the jobless one had given up economic or educational opportunities in order to support the partnership - then s/he might be able to make a good case for entitlement.


                Originally posted by soonfree!! View Post
                So, the story goes… they meet, fall in love and move in together. Everything is great for a few years but then one loses their job. In an effort to make up for the loss in their share of expenses, the jobless one becomes the housecleaner, dishwasher, clothes washer, and cook. The jobless one makes sure the other one has what they need as they headed out to their job every day. The job that is now, supporting both of them. Everything is fine at first, but as time goes on things begin to get stale. The jobless one isn’t as committed to household chores anymore. The working one isn’t home as much. Eventually it comes to light that the time away from home was due to an affair. The jobless one is asked to leave the home and does. Soon after, a lawyer is called and even though they were never married, the jobless one sues for Spousal Support and gets it. Do you think the jobless one deserves it, even if they were never married?<O</O
                Should just living together, and having sex, mean that one NEEDS to support the other even if the relationship is over? Where would the jobless one be if the working one had not been around to support them when they lost their job? Didn’t the working one already give enough? Should the jobless one be given an opportunity to sue for a piece of the value of the home too, even if they are not on the title to the property?<O</O

                Comment


                • #9
                  Unemployed spouses who stay home are generally entitled to 40% of your income for at least half the length of the marriage on a sliding scale to the full length of the marriage.

                  That is how it works in canada and that is why don't marry somebody who doesn't work because no amount of housework is worth that much.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Links I recall you spent a considerable amount of money on lawyer. You were only married for 7 yrs but had 2 children. I assume your wife was a stay-at-home mother. I'm curious. Did you have a nanny or did your wife look after the children as well as the home? How long do you have to pay SS? Does your ex get 40% of your income for 7 yrs?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In this case there are no children. The "jobless one" was unemployed due to a turndown in their industry and a lack of similar job opportunities, NOT because they were unable to work at all. Why does one person need to support the other if they were never "married", just living together. I know the law provides for this but doesn't anyone agree that the focus should be on the individuals choice not to be married as in the recent Quebec case? Shouldn't the " jobless one" take some responsibility for themselves instead of becoming parsitic!! ((As far as the "affair" part goes, isn't it "no fault" for divorcing couples, so this shouldn't legally matter right?))

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Never a situation that I was personally involved with.
                        But I wonder, if in a family unit without children one person works outside the home and the other works in the house to clean and cook and so forth (very important part of a family unit). When the split happens, would it be reasonable if the person who stayed at home had to at least provide some sort of household service for the other party to keep spousal support.
                        The family unit had to equal parties. One worked to make money, the other worked to support the person making money. When you take out the support role why does the money making one still have to financially support them?
                        I feel that after the division of assets, and hopefully if the couple can afford for one person to stay home they should have some assets. Then a short term of financial support, say as long as someone would get Unemployment insurance, as they have essencially been fired from their job at home. Like anyone else who loses a job, its not always fair and alot of people invest alot of themselves into a job and find themselves after decades of work being laid off, and they have few or no transferable skills. Why is it different?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I received my divorce with reason stated as "adultery" and yes, Canada has a no-fault divorce, I did get my divorce sooner and didn't have to wait 1 year to apply for one. Judges are only human so do not think that somewhere along the line "adultery" hasn't weighed on someone's mind. Having my ex swear to adultery was part of our strategy.

                          The law protects those who might not be able to protect themselves. Do you think it at all possible that someone would take advantage of an individual by refusing to marry them fully intending to circumvent divorce law and avoid having to pay SS? Hmmm wonder if that every happens.

                          Being from Alberta I'd have to say that Quebec, to me, is another country. I have no idea what laws are in play there.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fireweb13 View Post
                            Never a situation that I was personally involved with.
                            But I wonder, if in a family unit without children one person works outside the home and the other works in the house to clean and cook and so forth (very important part of a family unit). When the split happens, would it be reasonable if the person who stayed at home had to at least provide some sort of household service for the other party to keep spousal support.
                            The family unit had to equal parties. One worked to make money, the other worked to support the person making money. When you take out the support role why does the money making one still have to financially support them?
                            I feel that after the division of assets, and hopefully if the couple can afford for one person to stay home they should have some assets. Then a short term of financial support, say as long as someone would get Unemployment insurance, as they have essencially been fired from their job at home. Like anyone else who loses a job, its not always fair and alot of people invest alot of themselves into a job and find themselves after decades of work being laid off, and they have few or no transferable skills. Why is it different?
                            I think you raise some interesting points. I have always felt that EI or private insurance should be mandatory for people who work out of the home. It is work and can be hard work for some, depending upon the lifestyle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arabian View Post
                              I think you raise some interesting points. I have always felt that EI or private insurance should be mandatory for people who work out of the home. It is work and can be hard work for some, depending upon the lifestyle.

                              I think the main part is that it is work and should be respected. When I was young before my parents divorced my Mom stayed at home with the 4 of us. She made sure that raising us and keeping the household was her priority so when my dad came home he didn't have a mess to deal with. Then in the evenings and weekends they shared responsibilities, and it didn't include cleaning all weekend and stuff like that.

                              Unfortunatly I also know some stay at home parents who refuse to clean, barely take care of their kids and don't want to cook.
                              I think that if both parties are of the understanding that they are both working for the good of their families and that neither is working harder than the other, but only working differently it can work.
                              I guess spousal support after a marriage breakdown is a form of EI.

                              Comment

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