Holiday Weekend Exchange and fear of abusive language

[Pursuinghappiness]

I stated throughout the exchange that I was seeking ways to better handle a situation.

Unfortunately, he didn't agree with your solution and he doesn't have to. So you'll have to figure out solutions that involve you doing something yourself rather than trying to control what he's doing.

I could only wish! As it turns out since this past weekend, I receive about 20 forms of communications per day from X.

Understood. So only answer what's relevant and ignore everything else. Over time, he'll stop bothering you with things that aren't important. Again, what he does is up to him...how you react to it is up to you.

I am not a bad parent at all but will point out that while X was busy contacting me this weekend, the kids were locked in a car waiting for a celebratory dinner.

I'm not sure how you know this but its sounds immaterial. Are you suggesting the children were in danger in some way? If not, you really need to disengage. He doesn't sound like a father who isn't capable of taking care of the children for the time that he has them.

Can I point out that the time of pick-up was really non-essential in the exchange above?

It is important because instead of just agreeing to the time, you both fight over it. Instead of just recognizing that he was asking for equal time over the holiday, you found it necessary to bring up the lack of court order agreement.

The children were secondary to X's need to cause conflict that I am learning to disengage from.

I would argue that he wasn't the only one causing conflict. Its important to accept responsibility for the contribution you make in this regard. You were not disengaging at all...you actually ramped up the conflict.

Yes, by my perspective, boundaries need to be set with X.

Actually, the first boundaries that need to be set is with your own behavior. You will never be able to control your ex....You can, however, change what you're doing. When you do that, eventually what often happens is that he'll stop bothering trying to get a rise out of you. So stop telling him what to do...it clearly irritates him and causes him to immediately react. Instead, change you....change what you're doing.

In this case, rather than tell him 11 times to get a 3rd party...get one yourself.

It takes time to get into healthy habits after separation but its pretty clear that you are both over-communicating. I think you also both believe you're doing what's in the best needs of the children but in reality it sounds like you're trying to have a competition in being self-righteous.

To me, the first step for you is working on deciphering what's relevant and what's not relevant to reply to. When he sends you a note, ask yourself if its something actionable that requires immediate response. If not, don't text back. It takes practice....ask posters who've been through this like FB...he can give you some tips. But its important for you to recognize that you need to take responsibility for your contributions in the conflict and fix you. What your ex does is out of your control.

[stripes]

Ex used to send me all kinds of irrelevant and obnoxious messages. I finally got wise to the fact that my responses were only encouraging him, and cut down my participation in these exchanges.

I use a formula - I will only respond to messages if they meet all of the following conditions:

1. The message is polite (no swear words or insults).
2. The message is about the kidlet (no real reason to discuss anything else).
3. The message contains a direct question to me or a request for information.

If the message meets only one or two of the three conditions, I don't answer. It took a little while, but ex's communication improved a lot over time.

[blinkandimgone]

Warning noted, I could be more tactful, but everyone in the thread on this page had already stated that the poster is high conflict, controlling, idiotic, unbalanced, the exchange of people who like to hear themselves talk and sounds like a complete lunatic (their words, not mine).

No need to pick on one person in the crowd.

Nobody's being 'picked on'. I do not spend 24/7 here nor do I have time to read every post in every thread. I will address anything I see or that is reported but don't go looking for things to address. If you feel there are other posts to be addressed then feel free to bring it to the attention of the mods by reporting it. If you feel I am treating you unfairly or, in your words, 'picking on' you, please feel free to PM either myself or Jeff directly.

[MommyTime]

Your ex can text, email, phone or skywrite as much as he wants, you can't control that.

Unfortunately, despite court / third-party recommendations, X does do what X wants. Nothing will probably ever be able to stop it.

What you can control is whether you respond to it. Every time you answer one of his messages, you positively reinforce his behavior. It's like giving a rat a snack pellet in one of those psych experiments. Tell ex ONCE that you won't reply to him unless *you* deem it an emergency, and *stick to it*. It's hard at first, especially if the ex wants to get your goat, but over time, he can be trained out of this behavior.

Advice from lawyer / mediator / investigators / police / friends / family. Learning. Slow, but I will get there.

Thank you.

[MommyTime]

Mommytime - you mentioned that you have set up OFW. I am curious and would like to hear, from your own experience, what you like a/or dislike about the program. I have read many threads on this forum (not having any personal experience with child custody matters whatsoever) that the best way to get the other party to use OFW is to simply not respond to the other forms of communication the other party uses.

I would appreciate hearing your opinion on OFW as you are new to the program.

Well, it depends.. The other parent can be manipulative enough to choose "the right phrasing" that obscures intent from others that you know otherwise what it means. With the ToneMeter, it helps to a degree but that also depends on the type of personality you are dealing with. It can easily be manipulated, and only the "recipient" (you) knows this; not the algorithm. It has pros and cons. I would say it requires some work to implement "social / psychopath / narcissistic disorders." Perhaps in time.

[arabian]

Thanks - I really have to see how this program works. I wonder if there is a trial or somewhere to test it out? (I certainly am not in the market for it but merely curious).

[MommyTime]

Unfortunately, he didn't agree with your solution and he doesn't have to. So you'll have to figure out solutions that involve you doing something yourself rather than trying to control what he's doing.

You're right. X didn't, equally as I didn't.

Understood. So only answer what's relevant and ignore everything else. Over time, he'll stop bothering you with things that aren't important. Again, what he does is up to him...how you react to it is up to you.

Done. X has control. And I "should" subject myself to ongoing assaults because X can and will do what X wants..?

I'm not sure how you know this but its sounds immaterial. Are you suggesting the children were in danger in some way? If not, you really need to disengage. He doesn't sound like a father who isn't capable of taking care of the children for the time that he has them.

Time frame by the messages I received following pick-up when phone / computer were turned off.

It is important because instead of just agreeing to the time, you both fight over it. Instead of just recognizing that he was asking for equal time over the holiday, you found it necessary to bring up the lack of court order agreement.

The actual exchange about time was minimal. Please go back if needed (but I don't suggest it, LOL!). X was not asking for equal time (on the contrary, most of which X used up trying to contact me). X was looking for an extended exchange -- and, sadly, X won on that one about the third-party involvement that was important to me.

I would argue that he wasn't the only one causing conflict. Its important to accept responsibility for the contribution you make in this regard. You were not disengaging at all...you actually ramped up the conflict.

I may have caused conflict as per the innocent bystander reviewing the initial exchange, but that was prior to what transpired the days that followed upon X's pick-up.

When you do that, eventually what often happens is that he'll stop bothering trying to get a rise out of you. So stop telling him what to do...it clearly irritates him and causes him to immediately react. Instead, change you....change what you're doing.

X is irrupted whether I respond or not. I hope sex will be available soon, even if it's hired.

In this case, rather than tell him 11 times to get a 3rd party...get one yourself.

If you haven't read this already, I did. And the pass-off was recorded and filled with witnesses. The pass-off, after 15 minutes of "quiet" was irrelevant. What transpired afterwards was what I had been concerned about.

To me, the first step for you is working on deciphering what's relevant and what's not relevant to reply to. When he sends you a note, ask yourself if its something actionable that requires immediate response. If not, don't text back. It takes practice....ask posters who've been through this like FB...he can give you some tips. But its important for you to recognize that you need to take responsibility for your contributions in the conflict and fix you. What your ex does is out of your control.

I've had and continue to have my fair share of counselling since the demise of the relations began to unfold years ago. I am growing stronger slowly as I learn because I want to do this for the children in how best to deal with the situation. X has refused any recommended counselling to my knowledge by various professionals, and that would also be a trait of a narcissist.

[MommyTime]

Ex used to send me all kinds of irrelevant and obnoxious messages. I finally got wise to the fact that my responses were only encouraging him, and cut down my participation in these exchanges.

I use a formula - I will only respond to messages if they meet all of the following conditions:

1. The message is polite (no swear words or insults).
2. The message is about the kidlet (no real reason to discuss anything else).
3. The message contains a direct question to me or a request for information.

If the message meets only one or two of the three conditions, I don't answer. It took a little while, but ex's communication improved a lot over time.

Great tip! Thank you!

[MommyTime]

Thanks - I really have to see how this program works. I wonder if there is a trial or somewhere to test it out? (I certainly am not in the market for it but merely curious).

Glad you found it helpful.

[MommyTime]

Nobody's being 'picked on'. I do not spend 24/7 here nor do I have.tome to read every post in every thread. I will address anything I see or that is reported but don't go looking for things to address. If you feel there are other posts to be addressed then feel free to bring it to the attention of the mods by reporting it. If you feel I am treating you unfairly or, in your words, 'picking on' you, please feel free to PM either myself or Jeff directly.

Careful.. FightingForFamily may be sensitive to victimization. Just noting the alias and contribution of this thread. Really not a good combination to the objective bystander, but plausible.. Perhaps there's a lesson or two for everyone..?

[MommyTime]

Nobody's being 'picked on'. I do not spend 24/7 here nor do I have.tome to read every post in every thread. I will address anything I see or that is reported but don't go looking for things to address. If you feel there are other posts to be addressed then feel free to bring it to the attention of the mods by reporting it. If you feel I am treating you unfairly or, in your words, 'picking on' you, please feel free to PM either myself or Jeff directly.

Constructive criticism would, of course, be better received instead of personal attacks. Thanks, blinkandimgone. I appreciate your due diligence and volunteer time.

I will note that despite some of the feedback here, I have learned quite a bit that I have also shared with my lawyer. My legal representative is quite impressed with how I have been dealing with X (these past weeks); and my lawyer is someone with a full perspective of the case, seen my rise with willingness to learn more about myself / others, and then learning through the worst of allegations, resulting legal circumstances, investigations, recipient of a smear campaign, etc. My process through this, despite my incredible strength and level of intelligence, has been long / cumbersome as it would destroy the soul of many others.

I had my arms / legs legally cut off. I knew X would do something stupid, I just didn't realize how self-serving and stupid it was going to be despite the various threats I received (note the board this thread began). Forgive the one exchange I've shared and realize it's merely a fraction of the totality of multiple years of totality. I am now standing; somewhat wobbly but standing up against various legal wrongs. You don't have to understand the context of the exchange earlier, but I can tell you I do appreciate your input (to a degree).

As I've indicated, I am not perfect. I do not know how to deal with X as X has proven to be a complete stranger with the worst traits and with incredible power (political, legal, financial, etc). X always gets what X wants, beginning with our first meeting (saved for another day).. But I am standing, and I will stand up without shaking as I learn / reclaim my innermost strength that got me through a lifetime of experience. I own myself / my behaviour / my reaction. Yes, true. Point taken. For me, it's a process after I was beaten to embarrassing low levels despite my intelligence and knowledge. I fell for it, and don't want to fall for the usual tactics as depicted in that one exchange. I want to be free, alive, energetic, and an inspiration to my children again. Not this struggling fraction of self that better serves others (nicely) than protects harm from reaching self (idiotic innocent trust / openness / acceptance vs shyness to receive same treatment in return).

My kids matter. I am very aware of that. What X has done I will overcome and I strive to do so for my kids, which cannot be done until I do it for myself. Beaten and without limbs, I've come a long way legally, physically, and emotionally. The harm will never be forgotten. Communication is my next step. Your input can be helpful.

It's one legal step at a time. I will do it for my kids who have suffered the most by X's actions that have been incomprehensible to everyone else (at least those who could never believe the horrifying allegations against my day-to-day caregiving role; while X was in court seeking an ex-parte interim sole custody order for allegations that have otherwise been found to be false, DUH!).

I'm simply climbing out of a legal hole that was unwarranted, and falsely established. Simple as that. I'm certain many of you have similar experiences?

I am not perfect, never claimed to be.. I shared an exchange that was "uncomfortable" and wanted unbiased opinions (my safety matters to me too). While some views were definitely from personal experience unrelated to my own, I have rather appreciated those tips that have brought me greater insight / strength for my kids.

I thank everyone. Genuinely.

[FirstTimer]

To chime in here cause you know I'm an internet troll.

The initial feedback you received from everyone here was that you were as equal party in the escalation with your responses back to your ex. Based upon some of your comments, some might even say you're self-absorbed and based upon your last post, it probably has some merit along with your name handle MommyTime (Freudian Slip?).

However, let's skip this and boil it down to a few simple things. You tend to verbose alot, no offence it doesn't show intelligence.

You've lost custody and your ex has it right now. From what I gather here, you are having a very very very difficult time adjusting through the power dynamic that has happened here and your IQ/ego cannot deal with it so you make a mountain out of an ant hill with that exchange and your ramblings on about your loss of identity and self worth? You are used to being in control and now the law says you're not according to this one piece of paper, but my how powerful that piece of paper is eh?

At the end of the day, this has less to do with the best interest of kids from a non-bias perspective and more to do that you have tied your emotional, physical, and mental identity to what YOU think is in the best interest of the kids. This is cliché and again you will lose in court if you have that attitude. You need to be objective and separate the two. You've bundled this together and as a character in the Big Lebowski said, "you're going to be in a world of pain" if you cannot separate the two. Actually, you already are.

It sounds to me that your ex was able to capitalize on your emotional outbreaks, and work the law for him. The other side of the coin is that all he did was able to expose the real you in a way that the legal system would rule against not just YOU but ANYONE that does something that makes them look bad.

Just don't let him bait you and control yourself if you want to win and be with your kids.


What I really want to say is that, I feel bad for you, there's no other worse feeling in the world when you don't have your child near you and you know in your heart that what is happening is very painful. No one will understand that until it's happened to them. You have a right to feel sadness that your kids don't see you on a regular basis and by law, you legally aren't involved in their lives. It's okay to show hurt. We all sympathize with that and we want to help you.

[MommyTime]

To chime in here cause you know I'm an internet troll.

How would I know that?

You tend to verbose alot, no offence it doesn't show intelligence.

Yes. I recognize this as a fault.

If I was self-absorbed, as you suspect, then I would present the best side of my exchanges with X to gain your sympathy and support, and certainly not the one I inevitably chose to share. I want to learn.

What I really want to say is that, I feel bad for you, there's no other worse feeling in the world when you don't have your child near you and you know in your heart that what is happening is very painful. No one will understand that until it's happened to them. You have a right to feel sadness that your kids don't see you on a regular basis and by law, you legally aren't involved in their lives.

X wanted to stay together and made many promises. I did not after holding us all together for years. X and I were amicably drafting a separation agreement prior to the case and still residing in the same home (children fully in my care) when I was served. I had been warned years ago that if I ever left the relationship, X / friends / family would cause me misery. This promise was kept.

That "piece of paper" was obtained dishonestly and has been continually used to prevent me from seeing the children. The children reside with me more than 50% of the time now, which was the result of multiple investigations that found X's ex parte allegations false.

Restoring the children's well being has been a focus as they were most affected. I am cleaning up the debris that was created and played out in court by X's emotional reasoning.

Dealing with X is a challenge. Face-to-face interaction is impossible. Written format has its ups and down.

It seems X has a number of personas: the one in front of an audience, the one in written form, the one face-to-face, and the one in court (X has received stern warnings from the bench for acting out and for the material X has submitted).

It's okay to show hurt. We all sympathize with that and we want to help you.

I have cried enough. Righting the remaining wrongs now which has its ups and downs. I have no skill in this so undoubtedly I will make mistakes.

Context: I have concerns about perceptions that are skilfully crafted for legal misrepresentation. I ask for help when I need it, and I've asked for help here. I have received some really good advice. Thank you.

How was that? Still too verbose?

[Pursuinghappiness]

Done. X has control. And I "should" subject myself to ongoing assaults because X can and will do what X wants..?

Assaults? I'm assuming these assaults aren't physical...if they are, he'd be digging his own grave.

If you're discussing verbal assaults...no, you don't subject yourself to them...you save the hostile correspondence for court and don't bother responding to them. You're a grown woman and I'm sure you're capable of not sinking to his level. You don't answer what's not relevant.

At the beginning of my divorce, I had hostile emails from my ex. Didn't bother me, I simply hit filed them to my "douche" mail folder to use for court and didn't bother answering. Needless to say, he stopped sending them pretty quick since I didn't bother to lower myself to respond to them.

Personally, out of the text exchange you posted, I saw nothing hostile or assaulting in anything he said. What I saw was him clarifying the same thing to you repeatedly because I assume he wanted to make sure that the children were at the exchange since you were trying to put conditions on him that he didn't agree with.

Time frame by the messages I received following pick-up when phone / computer were turned off.

The kids being in his car is irrelevant.

X is irrupted whether I respond or not. I hope sex will be available soon, even if it's hired.

lol...You're right, sometimes this does help.

and, sadly, X won on that one about the third-party involvement that was important to me.

Its really not about winning and losing. Its about you recognizing that you cannot tell him what to do. Your responses lead me to believe you really don't get that you can't control his behavior...only your own.

X has refused any recommended counselling to my knowledge by various professionals, and that would also be a trait of a narcissist.

Again, just because you think he should go to counselling doesn't mean he has to go do it. I wouldn't go to counselling either...I don't think that makes me a narcissist. The real question is why do you think you know what's best for him to do better than he does and why do you think your opinion on such issues is relevant? Again, what he does isn't your business. Concentrate on you.

I'm simply climbing out of a legal hole that was unwarranted, and falsely established. Simple as that. I'm certain many of you have similar experiences?

I've had a similar experience. My ex filed for sole custody and accused me of everything from being a drug addict to being a chronic masturbator.

I never bothered to stoop to his level. I would simply blanket deny pages of accusations from him with a one-liner in my response affidavit and move forward by trying to prove why I was a good parent. I never attacked him...it was unnecessary. As a result, I was successful in court.

As I've indicated, I am not perfect. I do not know how to deal with X as X has proven to be a complete stranger with the worst traits and with incredible power (political, legal, financial, etc). X always gets what X wants, beginning with our first meeting (saved for another day).. But I am standing, and I will stand up without shaking as I learn / reclaim my innermost strength that got me through a lifetime of experience.

People have power over your life when you grant them that power.

You can spend the rest of your life blaming him for everything that went wrong with regard to your marriage, divorce and loss of custody....or you can start recognizing the truth. And the truth is that a lot of what happens to us in life, we do have some level of control over....not all...but a lot of it.

The problem for most of us is that its a whole lot easier to blame everything on someone else and make ourselves victims than to take responsibility for our own behavior and admit that we sometimes participate in our own demise. But the great thing about taking responsibility for your own mistakes where you can is that you can fix that. You can't fix being a victim of something.

My point is that I don't think your ex had incredible legal power. If your messages here are any indication, you probably had some major missteps in the way you handled your divorce litigation. Judges get tired of dealing with certain personalities traits in some resistant litigants and it can be very detrimental to their cases.

I truly hope that the counselling helps you gain some perspective on past, present and future.

[MommyTime]

Assaults? I'm assuming these assaults aren't physical...if they are, he'd be digging his own grave.

If you're discussing verbal assaults...no, you don't subject yourself to them...you save the hostile correspondence for court and don't bother responding to them.

Personally, out of the text exchange you posted, I saw nothing hostile or assaulting in anything he said. What I saw was him clarifying the same thing to you repeatedly because I assume he wanted to make sure that the children were at the exchange since you were trying to put conditions on him that he didn't agree with.

The written persona differs from the face-to-face persona. Perhaps I did not handle that exchange well, but this would be the context.

Its about you recognizing that you cannot tell him what to do. Your responses lead me to believe you really don't get that you can't control his behavior...only your own.

Oh, I do get it. It's a learning process.

I've had a similar experience. My ex filed for sole custody and accused me of everything from being a drug addict to being a chronic masturbator.

I never bothered to stoop to his level. I would simply blanket deny pages of accusations from him with a one-liner in my response affidavit and move forward by trying to prove why I was a good parent. I never attacked him...it was unnecessary. As a result, I was successful in court.

I'm sorry this happened to you.. I am glad things worked out.

Like you, I have not attacked X once in court or in any court document. I have denied all allegations and obtained support from investigation reports. This has resulted in the children's return to my home, but the debris to clean up remains significant.

On the contrary, every court document submitted by X is filled with the same unfounded allegations but "developed to heightened alarm" and new allegations. Each document is no less than thirty pages. They usually contain long lists for orders from the court. The court has ignored these but has not altered the initial order either. The verbal recommendation is that the initial order will be changed and the judge projected that if this case goes to trial, X will not be very successful.

One step at a time. The legal process is very slow.

People have power over your life when you grant them that power.

I'm learning to set boundaries in my counselling sessions. I am not good at this but I am willingly trying to learn.

My point is that I don't think your ex had incredible legal power. If your messages here are any indication, you probably had some major missteps in the way you handled your divorce litigation. Judges get tired of dealing with certain personalities traits in some resistant litigants and it can be very detrimental to their cases.

No divorce litigation at all. Custody was obtained by ex parte while I was caring for the children in the shared home, going about my usual routine. I was served with police enforcement present. The children were immediately removed and I was prohibited from any contact moving forward. I couldn't even contact the same children I had been caring for all day? They were already in bed when I was served. Not a mark on them. Bellies full. Bathed. Stories read. Happy and content. What abuse?

It was a strategic move in criminal and family courts to fulfill that promise many years ago that if I ever left the relationship, X / friends / family would be brutal and cause me misery. This one fact isn't about placing blame. It is what it is: a kept promise.