50/50 Equal Parenting: The Debate

[stripes]

Kind of belligerent, sexist thing to blurt out wouldn't you say?

"Man"splaining? Please try not to insult me suing my gender. I find it offensive. How feminist of you to come up with such a colorful term. I notice Stripes that you have a tendancy to always bring gender up in threads.



I recall being ripped apart in my threads by you & S&T. I was told I was lying, that my ex was probably right, etc. Pot calling the tea kettle black? I'm male though so I guess rules change.
Ange's explaining her situation to "us", providing very few details and not answering any q's ... then she want no speculations. lol

She won't be able to hide from a judge, calling him an angry father who's speculative. Judge won't go for that.

Perhaps you can "girl"splain to me: (since you want to make this about gender)

Why did she keep 6 binders of bad parenting over 8 years, complaining of psychological harm to her kids, etc. She didn't contact any authorities nor try to reduce any access.

You going to throw that under the rug too? Hmm.

Yet she still allowed (almost an equal relationship) for all that time. Only when dad wants a bit more time does his monstrosities and mysterious binders full of notes come up. Perhaps I'll ask you then Stripes. You know why? Does it make sense to you? Is that responsible parenting if the kids are in such an unhealthy environment?

If it was a father on here doing/saying all this you'd have a different opinion on the matter, he'd be in shit for the recording, the 6 binders over 8 years, etc. For me...it's genderless.


Never been about gender for me. I don't use words like "Mansplaining" .. I'm guessing it means men cant explain things as good as women? Wow...lol ... me caveman!:

BTW .. I've tried to switch topics several times. She keeps coming back. Have you told her to ignore the thread yet? Because I won't be ignoring my own thread on a debate I'm very interested in....sorry.

If she wants to discuss things she can keep coming back. If she decides to stop contributing to this thread, we can stop discussing her case.

I knew LF couldn't resist. I just knew it. 😀

[LovingFather32]

I challenge you to not use sexist terms like "Mansplaining" when a male explains something for a year. Can you?

Stripes...the thread is about 50/50 relationships and the criteria used to deny a parent that.

Why am I not allowed to discuss the criteria or take a deeper scope in to cases to broaden our knowledge? You're right.....I can't resist...that's why I started the thread.

Do you have anything to contribute to the thread regarding the topic? PeacefulMoments and I are having a normal discussion nopw. Perhaps you should too.

[Ange71727]

Ange .. let me explain something to you.

You came to these forums (the world wide web) and aired out your story to the world about how you're denying 50/50 relationship. You've done and said some questionable things. Nobody here is attacking you. We're saying things that a judge may say also.

We're not all angry fathers here. A load of mom's came here disagreeing with you as well such as Len. Are mothers like her biased, angry and misguided also? No.

You're on a political forum now. It's a debate and we're debating examples (including yours) of 50/50 denials. You just happened to post a 50/50 situation on an open forum.

Instead of ignoring all of our q's perhaps you should take a stab at answering some to practice for court.

I started this thread about 50/50 relationships. YOU posted your case on the internet to discuss, so we're discussing it. Nobody's attacking you. There's no abusive language, name calling, etc... just going over your facts.

If you don't want to discuss it then:

a) you shouldn't have posted your personal life ;
b) you shouldn't keep coming back to this thread to plead your case (but without answering q's).

Ignore my thread if you don't like it.

Word of advice .. if you don't want public discussing things about your case...don't put it on the world wide web.

I have no problem putting my story out, or at least the details that I did. My problem is that you brought my name into it and then starting messing up the facts (6 binders?). There is no doubt in my mind that you would jump right into a discussion started about you in a thread. I don't owe you answers just because you seek them. I am here for legal information, advice. I learned quite quickly that there are a select few who won't be helpful to me because my words will always be heard how they want to hear them. That's fine! We are going to agree to disagree. Just accept and move on. Discuss at length, just leave my name out of it. I find it rather lame to obsess over my case just because you're convinced of a certain thing. I have asked you to stop referring to my name and you even admitted ^^^ that you made a mistake by bringing it up. I am not going to stop posting on this forum on account of you because I do think there are helpful people here.


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[LovingFather32]

I believe that scribbled notes on a piece of paper do help for sure...if there's something significant going on .. like abuse.

If one parent is constantly late and you keep logs that's fine....not sure its enough to deny access though.

I'm of the firm belief that if you can keep years of logs of bad parenting, allege psychological abuse to the children, etc....that CAS must be involved. If the parent hasn't taken the initiative to protect their child and continue to leave them alone with that parent for long stretches ... their credibility and allegations arn't taken as seriously.

CAS on the other hand ARE qualified professionals (more than ex's) to evaluate if there actually is bad parenting or abuse.

When a parent FAILS to do this (for say...8 years) .. is it really bad parenting at dad's? I know you challenge me not to talk about it Stripes ... but it's very relevant to this thread.

[Ange71727]

I believe that scribbled notes on a piece of paper do help for sure...if there's something significant going on .. like abuse.

If one parent is constantly late and you keep logs that's fine....not sure its enough to deny access though.

I'm of the firm belief that if you can keep years of logs of bad parenting, allege psychological abuse to the children, etc....that CAS must be involved. If the parent hasn't taken the initiative to protect their child and continue to leave them alone with that parent for long stretches ... their credibility and allegations arn't taken as seriously.

CAS on the other hand ARE qualified professionals (more than ex's) to evaluate if there actually is bad parenting or abuse.

When a parent FAILS to do this (for say...8 years) .. is it really bad parenting? I know you challenge me not to talk about it Stripes ... but it's very relevant to this thread.

Again....I didn't allege psychological abuse.....


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[LovingFather32]

Again....I didn't allege psychological abuse.....


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Really? You haven’t mentioned any psychological harm? You sure you want to go down that road? I’d LOVE to be your ex’s lawyer.

In your other thread you wrote:

“I should add too that we may have differing definitions of "harm". I do think that it is harmful for a child to hear that their mother is lying about something. I do think it's harmful for a kid to see an image of dad vacationing with a woman who isn't his girlfriend. There are other harmful items as well....
They may not leave a bruise, a scar, any physical trace but what are they doing to their impressionable minds?”
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...0/index10.html

More concern or alienation (harm):

However, I am also worried about things he says about me to the kids. I already see the effects of it. "Daddy says this....." and "Daddy says that...". Many many lies are told

More concern of alienation (harm):

“Hopefully he won't have succeeded in damaging the relationship I have with them”.

Concern he will “hurt” your kids if he goes up a few percentages (Gawd)

You are telling me to try something that I feel could very well hurt my kids? I think he will mess them up.

And even more concerns of alienation (harm):

“He has been ]manipulating the kids to think less of me[/B] (attempting to by again making up stories).
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...e-court-20649/

It seems you've had quite a bit of concerns over psychological harm. I'm not speculating or putting words in your mouth here. These are all your words.

I encourage you to get your story straight before you go before a judge.

[Ange71727]

Really? You haven’t mentioned any psychological harm? You sure you want to go down that road? I’d LOVE to be your ex’s lawyer.



In your other thread you wrote:







More concern or alienation (harm):







More concern of alienation (harm):







Concern he will “hurt” your kids if he goes up a few percentages (Gawd)







And even more concerns of alienation (harm):







It seems you've had quite a bit of concerns over psychological harm. I'm not speculating or putting words in your mouth here. These are all your words.



I encourage you to get your story straight before you go before a judge.

Yes I do have concerns....My story is straight. You said abuse. You put that word out there not me.


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[trinton]

I have no problem putting my story out, or at least the details that I did. My problem is that you brought my name into it and then starting messing up the facts (6 binders?). There is no doubt in my mind that you would jump right into a discussion started about you in a thread. I don't owe you answers just because you seek them. I am here for legal information, advice.

Again, this is a debate. This thread, in this forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc. We are discussing politics. Why do women really deny 50/50? What motivates them to do so?

If you want legal advice on opposing 50/50, then create a thread under the "divorce and family law forum". I'm sure the moderators will have a fun time weeding out the political posts and putting them here for us to rip apart.

[LovingFather32]

Yes I do have concerns....My story is straight. You said abuse. You put that word out there not me.


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So psychological harm to your children is okay but not abuse? Please help us understand. Just how different are the two?

[trinton]

I fear this is another question she is going to dodge.

[LovingFather32]

I fear this is another question she is going to dodge.

To be honest I want to move on. She keeps stopping by so I have no issue responding.

I wish she would realize that nobody's here to bully her. She doesn't sound like a terrible person or parent.

Questions and discussions like these will actually help prepare her for court. I'm not sure she's seeing that though.

[trinton]

To be honest I want to move on. She keeps stopping by so I have no issue responding.

I wish she would realize that nobody's here to bully her.

Questions and discussions like this will actually help prepare her for court. I'm not sure she's seeing that though.

And honestly these are things that you would rather be asked from us before being asked by opposing lawyer or judge. They may not be asked in the same way. And they may be just questions that run through the lawyers or judges mind. But at least you know how to defend yourself in advance. Or better understand your own true motivations. It will also help us better understand the situation. If you avoid simple questions, people will think you have something to hide. We're not the police out to get you or arrest you. If anything, we are trying to help you.

You have to be consistent. You can't say his motivation is money but then say that he loves the kids and is a good dad. You can't say he is harmful to your kids but that he loves his kids and that the kids love him. He sounds like a great dad to me.

You also shouldn't say you have not exposed your child to adult conflict. Especially if you are documenting everything the child tells you, discussing some of those things with the child, and going as far as recording the child. You are also taking part in exposing the child to the adult conflict by litigating through the courts.

You mentioned that something in the order expired about child support? What exactly expired about child support?

[LovingFather32]

And honestly these are things that you would rather be asked from us before being asked by opposing lawyer or judge. They may not be asked in the same way. And they may be just questions that run through the lawyers or judges mind. But at least you know how to defend yourself in advance. Or better understand your own true motivations. It will also help us better understand the situation. If you avoid simple questions, people will think you have something to hide. We're not the police out to get you or arrest you. If anything, we are trying to help you.

You have to be consistent. You can't say his motivation is money but then say that he loves the kids and is a good dad. You can't say he is harmful to your kids but that he loves his kids and that the kids love him. He sounds like a great dad to me.

You mentioned that something in the order expired about child support? What exactly expired about child support?

It's useless. She just wants to hear that she's right. She doesn't care about any holes or inconsistencies in her stories.

A few years back when I was getting roasted for my story (nobody could believe another human could actually do what my ex did) ... I made the mistake of getting defensive in the beginning. In the end the tough love made me stronger and prepared me more for my case.

I almost feel bad for preparing her for what the opposing party will be presenting in court. But hey...I'm just a nice guy.

[trinton]

It's useless. She just wants to hear that she's right. She doesn't care about any holes or inconsistencies in her stories.

A few years back when I was getting roasted for my story (nobody could believe another human could actually do what my ex did) ... I made the mistake of getting defensive in the beginning. In the end the tough love made me stronger and prepared me more for my case.

I almost feel bad for preparing her for what the opposing party will be presenting in court. But hey...I'm just a nice guy.

and I don't think she realizes that you've been through this and came out with 50/50, nor does she realize that I'm pretty much the dad on the other side, who is looking to increase his time but is being argued similar things against.

I've been hearing it all for the last 2 years. and for another 2 years before that. Nothing was ever substantiated. I'm this abusive person that has been abusive to the child and to the mother (based on what mom says). CAS referrals have been made and the Police have been involved, investigated me, etc. Never any substantiated concerns.

Also based on what mom says (in an affidavit), it's not in the best interests of the child to have more time with me. But she has been giving me more time. She recently consented to my motion (fear of losing and being ordered my costs) to take my child out of the country for over a week. How can she possibly argue of any concerns with the child under my care but allow me to take her out of the country for an extended period of time? Am I really that abusive? Absurd.

Not all women are the same, and obviously not all men are the same. But the game is the same. You can't hate the player, hate the game.

[LovingFather32]

and I don't think she realizes that you've been through this and came out with 50/50, nor does she realize that I'm pretty much the dad on the other side, who is looking to increase his time but is being argued similar things against.

I've been hearing it all for the last 2 years. and for another 2 years before that. Nothing was ever substantiated. I'm this abusive person that has been abusive to the child and to the mother (based on what mom says). CAS referrals have been made, both by daycare and both by mom. Police have been involved, investigated me, etc. Also based on what mom says (in an affidavit), it's not in the best interests of the child to have more time with me. But she has been giving me more time. She recently consented to my motion (fear of losing and being ordered my costs) to take my child out of the country for over a week. How can she possibly argue of any concerns with the child under my care but allow me to take her out of the country for an extended period of time?

Not all women are the same, and obviously not all men are the same. But the game is the same. You can't hate the player, hate the game.

Yep. When my ex first alleged abuse the courts had no choice but to order supervised access. Only a few hours/week with the love of my life (my daughter).

One visit we played in the park, got all dirty and sweaty. I "ALWAYS" gave my daughter a bath when my ex and I were together. Yes it was a short access, but I gave her a bath to clean her up. It was also to show her that daddy can still do the things he used to .. that I wasn't some stranger now. But mostly..because she NEEDED a friggen bath.

Next thing I know ex calls CAS and alleges sexual abuse because D5 said "Daddy said the shark can't go under water". We have one big plastic shark and a bunch of little fish. The big shark floats around eating the little fish...kind of like hungry hungry hippos. Ex knew about this toy. So I bet you can guess what she said the shark was.....yep...my penis.

D5 went through all sorts of tests, inappropriate questioning by unqualified counselors, you name it. I was so pissed that someone would subject a little, innocent girl to all this mature crap.

CAS came for a visit. I had NO idea what to expect. When I heard about the Shark...I ran so fast upstairs and got the actual toy. The CAS worker's eyes bugged out.

After the complaint was made my ex made sure she went on a long vacation. Even when CAS and police confirmed no abuse...I didn't get access for a good 4 weeks. Cried myself to sleep every single night missing my daughter.

This sort of thing happened to me over and over (abuse, sexual, psychological..you name it...) for 2 years while my ex kept trying to build her status quo of no dad in the picture.

Stripes, S&T..and pretty much all the females here will NEVER have to experience that, which is why they just don't get it. They actually kicked me while I was down on my threads calling me a liar, an abuser, a conspiracy theorist, etc. But it made me stronger in the end. Perhaps in their next life karma will take place and they'll experience it...although I don' wish that on anybody. (Kudos to posters like Rioe, Arabian, Mr. T, etc who helped me through it).

I stayed up until dawn every night preparing my case, coffee maker always ready to go.

I wasn't going to stop until I had 50/50 or sole custody. She's lucky she agreed to 50/50 .... I strongly believe I would've had sole if it went to trial.